I still don't understand why Kinect is required for the console to function... all they've demo'd so far is web / dashboard / app browsing, which can be done with the controller anyway. And if you payed attention to their actual E3 presentation, there were ZERO Kinect-only games shown, and for good reason. They clearly went out of their way to avoid even mentioning Kinect, the only time you even knew it was a feature was when a couple of the presenters used voice commands (sparingly).

Remove Kinect as a necessity, and drop the base price to $399, and there goes any advantage Sony would've had going into next gen.

I don't believe they will drop the price but instead throw in a year subscription to Xbox Live Gold. They most likely won't even do that because all consoles sell out at launch. Next year they will definitely drop the price to $399 before Halo 5.

Considering the Xbone has the only next gen game that has looked impressive to me (Titanfall), I hope they lower the price. $500 is too much considering the PS4 is more powerful. Then again the game doesn't come out until 2014, so maybe it drops by then.

Not with all that TV stuff they're including in the box, not to mention kinect in every sku.

I'd like to think so, without Kinect obviously. But a Xbone at the same price, with the games which were shown at E3...there's only one winner really.

There is no chance they're going to drop the price before the console has even launched. As it is, I still believe Sony is going to be losing money at their price, and the Bone is probably going to be losing money even at $500. Considering the tech, and the new "advanced" Kinect packed in, etc. etc. etc. etc., no I don't think they'll be dropping the price at all.

And honestly, their DRM announcement changes very little. I'm sure there's more to it than "oh sorry guys, we'll just drop the idea entirely. Even Sony is being sneaky about "not having DRM", and there's no chance in hell that MS is dropping the idea entirely. Not when publishers like EA want it so badly, and are willing to give them exclusive content to help make it happen.

Well in the long term, not really. Here games are $60 so that would almost be two games. Not to mention with the two systems being almost identical/ps4 slightly more powerful. I don't see a point in shelling out an extra $100 for the console plus the games/live subscription too. The kinect, I don't see using all that much either. Exclusives wise both sony and ms offer great ones. Most games will be great on both systems anyways.

The Wii U's gamepad and the Xbox Ones Kinect are two expensive "peripherals" that are required and keep the price higher for the base console purchase than it would be just for the console itself.

$99* after the holiday.

While I agree the Kinect is a worthless, overpriced gimmick, do you really think that the added tech to the PS4 hasn't added to the overall price of the PS4 at all? Which, along with their touted super-hardware, is why I am forced to believe Sony will in fact be selling the PS4 at a loss.