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Forums - General Discussion - Superman Vs. Vegetto

OneHappyGamer:) said:
Michael-5 said:

I did not realize how ridiculous Vegito was, but I don't think Vegito is more powerful then SSJ4 Goku.

Also is Vegito more powerful then Gogeta or not? The only info I was able to find was that he was stringer because the fusion is permanent.

I would say vegetto was is slightly stronger then Gogeta. in the fusion dance, it requires that you equalize your power levels, and it has been made clear several times that Goku is at least slightly stronger then Vegeta. the plotara earings do not require you to have the same power levels, so thats Goku's full power added to Vegeta's so Vegetto is stronger the Gogeta.

There you go, but still, like I said before Goku is pretty damn strong. in GT, he finished off Omega Shenron with a universal spirit bomb, and while SSJ4 Gogeta could also have easily finished off Omega Shenron, Goku's Ultimate attack finished it.

---

Then again, nothing makes sense, if the Universal Spirit Bomb hit Omega Shenron, how could all that energy only hit him? I mean, there is a long above about Superman Punching you in the face, since he can punch at 99% the speed of light, the impact his fist would make with air molecules would cause Nuclear Fusion. I never saw a city blow up when Superman punched, nor Goku.



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Superman wins. Power level scales upward significantly faster than strength and speed as proven by gravity training, so the OP's calculations vastly overestimate Vegetto's potential. Not to mention that Superman's stats aren't even using his best feats, such as lifting a book with infinite mass or flying from Pluto to Earth in less than a minute.



Kasz216 said:

Eh. What people don't get about the Dragonball Z Universe is that their physical stats greatly lag behind their Ki output stats.

Master Roshi can planet bust a moon... while his physical stats are WELL below your average character with super strength. Yet his punches deal about the same level damage to an opponent as his energy attacks.

Ki attacks either are largely ineffective on people, or martial artists in the dragon ball Z Universe develop some level of innate ki resistance from their training.


Physically Superman just outclasses him too much... and also, honestly probably outclasses him in energy projection. (though not by nearly as much.)


Superman has never destroyed a planet... but he's Superman. Why would he.  (He has destroyed a moon through in a manner like friexa, but just through pure strength.



It's worth noting that his heat vision is hotter then the sun which has been shown as something that can kill DBZ characters with ease, and he's used this heat vision before to move planets.... while under a red sun (which HUGELY weakens his powers), he's covered an entire planet in heat vision and can burrow through earth far faster then Freeza's core detroying energy blasts can. (Who is well well below Vegito, but it's just pointing out how Frieza's planet busting feats aren't in the least impressive vs superman.)  His heat vision is generally considered stronger then his fists.  (It's also a burning/drilling type energy, not explosive like DBZ.)

 

 

I'm no great fan of superman, but he should take a battle vs any DBZ character pretty handily.  The only chance Vegito would have is Superman's innate "carefulness/stupidity" in combat.

He tries to fight to his opponents level to avoid hurting them, so if he H2H's vs Vegito for a while and ends up unharmed and assusming Vegito is completely weak, he might be stupid enough to take a planet busting blast head on without dodging.  Of course Vegito isn't known for his smart fighting either.  Seemingly combining the worst aspects of both characters.  The Arrogance of Vegeta with the Playfullness of Goku.

If we're talking each character wants to take the other down/kill each other/doesn't hold back.

Superman is just too fast, two strong and his heat vision is something Vegito just can't stand up against.

Or he could just fly goku into space if they fight in an uninhabited universe.  Superman can hold his breath and there would be noone Vegito coud Instant Transmission to.

Of course a full powered superman would be a boring fight/character, since he'd just lobotomize all of his enemies from orbit.  Like Justice Lords superman.

 


Dragonball Z Characters are a lot  like Wolverine, in that their power is greatly overrated.  It's just worse because unlike Wolverine, DBZ characters have high levels of power.

Just not Superman/Silver Surfer levels of power.


Well I wouldn't say Superman is to fast. you may not be going by my assumptions of Vegetto's power, but according to it, Vegetto is roughly 200x faster then superman. he's also a little more then 2x as durable, not counting Ki amplification. Vegetto being able to withstand 25 Octillion MT of force, makes him easily able to withstand a Supernova, let alone the heat of Supermans heat ray vision, because if its even comparable to the Heat of the centre of the sun which is about a 6000th of the heat from a supernova, then I don't see how it can damage Vegetto to much. and this is without Vegetto using Kiao ken which he should know how to do.

again, this is based off of my assumptions of Vegetto's power, but I think they are very accurate.



OneHappyGamer:) said:
Michael-5 said:

I did not realize how ridiculous Vegito was, but I don't think Vegito is more powerful then SSJ4 Goku.

Also is Vegito more powerful then Gogeta or not? The only info I was able to find was that he was stringer because the fusion is permanent.

I would say vegetto was is slightly stronger then Gogeta. in the fusion dance, it requires that you equalize your power levels, and it has been made clear several times that Goku is at least slightly stronger then Vegeta. the plotara earings do not require you to have the same power levels, so thats Goku's full power added to Vegeta's so Vegetto is stronger the Gogeta.


Gogeta SSJ1 was well beyond Goku SSJ4. Gogeta was even beyond Omega Shenron, with a Battle Power of 2,500,000,000 (V-Jump, 2004) vs 1,900,000,000 (Scouter Battle Taikan Kamehameha). Goku SSJ4 was well below Omega Shenron, and it needed Gogeta SSJ4, who, according to Toei's site, was many tens of times stronger than Goku SSJ4 and Vegeta SSJ4 on their own.

As for Vegetto, according to The Super Exciting Guide: Story Volume, on p.63 it describes the Potara fusion as being closer to multiplication rather than simple addition in the way it increases power. Supposedly, Vegetto’s battle power is equivalent to Goku’s battle power multiplied by Vegeta’s. Also according to the introduction of the Super Exciting Guide’s training section, all the information in it is based on data that was supervised by Toriyama. Vegetto's power is just inmeasurable.

Goku, Vegeta or even Gogeta wouldn't be able to beat Supes. But Vegetto is another story. Majin Buu could actually rip dimensions with his yell, as seen when he escaped from the Time Chamber. And he's way weaker than Vegetto, so the latter might as well do the same easily. Broly, as a baby, survived the explosion of Planet Vegeta when Freezer destroyed it, in outer space, so it's logical to assume Vegetto would survive something similar with ease.

Only chance that Supes has against Vegetto would be if he punched him to a magical dimension where the fusion stopped working. That is, if he can actually catch up to the Maximum Saiyan's speed.

Also, I saw someone asking why the Genkidama (Spirit Bomb) did not damage Earth: The Genkidama is supposed to be GOOD energy, and it only damages evil beings. That's why Gohan was able to deflect it when Vegeta first arrived to the Earth.



"It's worth noting that his heat vision is hotter then the sun which has been shown as something that can kill DBZ characters with ease."

No it hasn't only filler characters like Cooler and Broly. Cell could wipe out the solar system, meaning he could wipe out the sun yet if he were to try a kamehameha of that strenght on people the top tier characters they'd just wack that nonsense away.

"he's covered an entire planet in heat vision and can burrow through earth far faster then Freeza's core detroying energy blasts can."

That's only because he held back to not get caught up in the blast. It's also worth noting that Frieza chopped in half, with no energy, blasted with a Kamehameha was on Namek when it exploded and he still survived. That has nothing to do with what you just said though, just a little thing to show their durability.

"I'm no great fan of superman, but he should take a battle vs any DBZ character pretty handily."

Not Buu, for one Supes is weak against magic and Buu is a genie, no amount of physcial force can kill Buu either because he just regenerates from it all. It takes alot of destructive power to wipe out Buu, more than solar sytem level anyway.

"Of course Vegito isn't known for his smart fighting either."

Based on what? He's the combination of Vegeta and Goku who are both genius' in battle. Vegito isn't arrogant, it was an act he was putting on so that Buu would absorb him so they could save the others.

"noone Vegito coud Instant Transmission to."

Why he doesn't need to be close to people to be able to do it, as long as he knew where Roshi or Bulma was he'd pick up on their energy and just teleport back there.

"Dragonball Z Characters are a lot like Wolverine, in that their power is greatly overrated."

Not at all if anything it's underated.. Everyone always harps on about DBZ characters can destory planets yet forget that Cell claimed he could blow up the entire solar system. He was merely SSJ2 level. SSJ3 is capable of much more, Vegito is capable of a hell of alot more and Bills can wipe out a galaxy.

SSJ1 Gogeta flew around the earth a few dozen times and had a nap in 29 minutes. Again compared to his SSJ3 self, Gohan or Vegito he's much slower.

Base Goku in the Namek saga kicked Frieza straight through a couple islands. He wasn't using Kaioken x20 let along SSJ1. Again he is nothing when compared to even the Androids.



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"i never understood how superman was more powerful. Since the beginning they were moving so fast gohan could not see them."

Well that's the thing, combat speed and travel speed are very different.

Roshi was that fast he could catch bullets from a machine guy fired from a few feet away and could do a series of complicated moves in mid air faster than the eye could see.

Yet when he watched Goku fought Tien Goku moved so far that Roshi couldn't even see him move. Tien however could.

In the Piccolo saga Goku recieved a power up to the point that he know could move faster than even Tien could see and wasn't being series.

In the 23rd Budokai Tien said Goku's speed hadn't changed and prepared to out manouver Goku. However once Goku took off his weights he moved that fast he was able to remove Tiens belt without him even noticing.

Goku then couldn't see Raditz when he attacked them from behind even when he started off infront.

Later Goku got faster and learn Kaioken which he was able to multiply his speed further.

Then he was able to multiple his speed by 20 during his fight with Frieza and so on.



ghost_of_fazz said:

Vegetto is the most powerful being on all the Dragon Ball canon BY FAR. The Earrings fusion doesn't work the same way as the Dance fusion, it doesn't simply adds the power of the components, but multiplies them, as in "Goku's power * Vegeta's power". And it has no time limit. Also, Vegetto's power was not on par with Gohan-Boo, it was far beyond, as it actually played with Boo on his base form, and on his chocolate form too.

Vegetto on super-saiyan level 1 was even more powerful than Gogeta level 4 from DBGT, as stated by Toriyama. And Vegetto could go up to level 3 if he wanted to. Plus, he has Vegeta's strategic mind.

So if there's one character from Dragon Ball that can beat Supes, that's Vegetto.


I don't think that's true - from what I've seen, isn't Gogeta more powerful?

From the wiki:

"A 2004 V-Jump announcing his appearance in Dragon Ball Z: Budokai 3 states that Super Gogeta's power level is around 2,500,000,000; this makes Super Gogeta's power level the highest ever officially stated. In the second Dragon Ball GT Perfect Files volume, Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta is said to be dozens of times stronger than a regular Super Saiyan 4[1] (while Vegito was said to be in the league of a Super Saiyan 4 in the anime comics for Dragon Ball GT: A Hero's Legacy).[2]"



OneHappyGamer:) said:
Kasz216 said:


Well I wouldn't say Superman is to fast. you may not be going by my assumptions of Vegetto's power, but according to it, Vegetto is roughly 200x faster then superman. he's also a little more then 2x as durable, not counting Ki amplification. Vegetto being able to withstand 25 Octillion MT of force, makes him easily able to withstand a Supernova, let alone the heat of Supermans heat ray vision, because if its even comparable to the Heat of the centre of the sun which is about a 6000th of the heat from a supernova, then I don't see how it can damage Vegetto to much. and this is without Vegetto using Kiao ken which he should know how to do.

again, this is based off of my assumptions of Vegetto's power, but I think they are very accurate.

The problem is, the examples are overexagerrated.  Deathbattle was more or using a popular tactic in debating to show just how one sided a battle is by using Dragonball best case scenarios against average superman becnchmarks.  

For example, Superman's heat vision has actually been stated multiple times to be hotter then can be measured, and as the hottest thing in the universe.  So if we're using the "best showings" for each character post crisis superman... it's not really a contest.

I of course talk of post crisis, because pre crisis superman....

He destorys solar systems with a Sneeze!

 

Like i mentioned before, their Ki generation and Ki resistance lead to an exagerration of their durability.  It would be like if you measured the Human Torch's durability by his ability to take fire blasts.

 

To further illustrate this lets look at your estimaed Vegitto's numbers . 

 

Strength: 121.6 Million Tons

Durability: 26.37 Octillion MT


The problem here becomes readily apparent once you define Octillion.  How much is an Octillion?   It's 10 to the 27th power.  A Million is 10 to the 6th power.   

Which is best if we spell this out visually

121,600,000 in strength 

vs

26,370,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 in durability.

 

Using deathbattle numbers as a base, Vegitto and his clone could pound on each other every day for infinity and neither one is going to ever feel it.

You'd have better luck trying to knock someone out by throwing a crumpled up piece of notebook paper then Vegito could have an punching himself out.  Sure he can ki amp his strength, but that also ki amps his durabiliy.  

Beides which, even if it only effected strength.  Kaioken times 20 would only be 2,420 MT.  (If you could even use Kaioken while Super Saiyan.  I don't think Goku ever does.)

 

 Two nearly even characters in DBZ (or hell, even ones with fairly wide gaps) should never be able to hurt each other if these numbers were to hold true.

Hell, there's no way Vegitto could even hurt Goku and his base deathbattle powerlevels.  

In otherwords, the durability numbers are crap using best case scenarios based on thef act that Dragonball Z characters have inbuilt Ki Resistance.  Melee combat seems more or slighty weaker in a fight vs near equals, and stronger when weaker characters attack stronger characters.

Why?  As your powerlevel increases so does your resistance to energy attacks in addition to your base energy attacks.

 

That's why someone like Gohan can hurt Recoome with a physical attack, but the Ki Generation attacks like the Masenko don't even leave a scratch. Despite his Ki genertion being way stronger. 

That's aslo the trick behind Krillin's Destructo Disc.  Characters like Nappa think it's just a worthless energy attack from a weak character like Krillin but in reality it takes on physical charactertics and cuts like a physical attack, meaning it can deal far more damage against an opponent then an equivlenet levle Ki blast attack would.  It can badly hurt and even kill opponents WAY out of his power range... even Freiza!  

 

It also explains why Frieza suddenly breaks out his own Kenzan like attack when Goku suddenly overpowers him.  It's the one attack that he knows can kill goku.

 

In reality, goku and in turn, Vegitto's durability aren't much higher then their strength levels.

 

Edit: This thread actually has a decent amount of Supes feats, and was made for a really similar reason. (Compairng how he outclasses goku.)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t371890.html



"He destorys solar systems with a Sneeze!"

Only because of Myxlplyx's magic dust. It wasn't his own power that did that.



Superman Prime *drops mic and walks away*