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Forums - Gaming Discussion - What made Microsoft succeed where Sega could not?

CGI-Quality said:
burninmylight said:
CGI-Quality said:
burninmylight said:


I was about to type a similar point. Everyone raves about Sega's IP nowadays, but outside of Sonic, they sold like crap. Jet Grind/Set Radio and Shenmue are the quintessential must-have hipster games now, but they sold like crap back in the day, along with Virtual On, Chu Chu Rocket, Skies of Arcadia and a bunch of others I can't think of at the moment.

I see people online all the time begging for a Shenmue 3 or JSR sequel (and I wouldn't mind the latter + a new Virtual On), but I can guarantee you funding those projects would be the equivalent of shoveling a pile of money into a burning furnace.

Sega games "sold like crap"? Define that and humor me. 


OK, fine. In this instance, "sold like crap" means "didn't sell enough units to recoup development costs, warrant a sequel, or push hardware." Shenmue sold 1.18 million units, an amount normally worthy of celebration back in 2000.

*UNFINISHED DRAFT, WILL RETURN*

Really? Then why did Streets of Rage, Virtua Fighter, and Yakuza all have sequels? Daytona USA? Crazy Taxi? Virtua Tennis? I could go on, but I think I've made my point.


I said I wasn't done and I would return to finish my post. Perhaps I didn't make it big and shiny enough for you to notice.

IF YOU HAD WAITED FOR ME TO LET ME GO BACK AND FINISH BEFORE "PROVING" YOU POINT,  you would have let me preface this by saying I'm speaking of games from the Saturn and Dreamcast era. Sega could make make sequels galore to everything back in those days because game development wasn't nearly the risk it is now. There are a countless number of IPs that got sequels then that publishers nowadays would never greenlight. But since you brought some of those other games up, I'll address them.

As I was saying, Shenmue sold 1.18 million units, but Sega still lost a ton of money on it's $70 million budget. It was also one of those games that got a significant portion of it's sales after the game had been marked down considerably. Google it.

Jet Grind/Set Radio had a sequel early in the Xbox's life. VGC doesn't have numbers for the original, but the Xbox sequel managed only about 210k units. The original failed at retail (helped by horrible marketing in the West) and the game was exclusive to a system the Japanese rejected from the get-go... That screams Microsoft money-hat to me.

Streets of Rage hasn't had a new game in the series since the Genesis/Megadrive, when beat-em-ups were then what shooters are now. Not to mention Sega was at it's peak in terms of popularity and the Genesis was it's most popular console. Not to mention developing and producing games then was a much cheaper venture in the 90s. How come we haven't seen a SoR since then? The original sold well though.

Virtua Fighter is an exception, although it lives in the shadow of series' like Tekken, Street Fighter and even Mortal Kombat. According to the chartz, no VF has ever cracked 2 million though. Oh, and VF3TB, the one on Dreamcast? It sold .37 million units. Not bad, but I'm honestly surprised it didn't do better, considering how popular it was in arcades and it's big marketing push.

Crazy Taxi? First one was crazy popular because it showed off the amazing power of the Dreamcast and how the arcade experience could be brought home, but it's popularity waned in a massive way after, and it showed by the sales of each sequel.

Yakuza is another exception, but like I said, I was referring to the games from the days when Sega had its own hardware. That's why I said sold like crap, not sell.

Virtual On: Oratorio Tangram? Love that game to death, wish they would make it's true sequel (Marz was garbage), but no one bought it. The major stores in my area like Wal Mart and Target wouldn't even put it on shelves, so I had to order it online months after it launched.

Chu Chu Rocket? Collected dust on shelves so people could play that shitty South Park FPS. Seaman? Sega didn't deem it worthy of producing the sequel, and it never made it out of Japan.

18 Wheeler: American Pro Trucker? One sequel you probably never heard of, The King of Route 66.

Blue Stinger? lol

Hundred Swords? Don't know how well it did, but no sequel I ever heard of.

Metropolis Street Racer? Read this

The 2K Sports series? Some of the greatest successes of the DC, from a commercial and critical standpoint.

Ooga Booga? Gets a pass because it came when the DC was long since dead. Got a raving review on IGN.

Daytona USA? No new game in 13 years. Closest you can get to it is XBLA/PSN ports.

Outrigger? Don't know how it did saleswise, but no sequel. Wasn't your whole point that all these good games Sega made and published had sequels?

Phantasy Star Online? Has never sold well and always been extremely niche. Survives because it's fanbase is extremely loyal and willing to go with the MMO subscription model.

Power Stone? I really, really wish it was more popular. I would kill for a Power Stone 3, but outside of a DC sequel and a PSP collection, that IP is X-over-eyes dead.

Rez? About 50k worldwide, and all of it's sequels have been "spiritual" and usually free on PC.

Sega Bass Fishing? That was worthy of a few sequels.

Samba de Amigo? Another one of those games like Shenmue and JSR that everyone sings the praises for now, but no one bought. One maraca-less Wii port.

Skies of Arcadia? Hardly anyone played the original, hardly anyone played the GC port. I wish I was one of the ones, but at that time I was a broke little HS kid that could only stare at the case through the glass and dream.

Space Channel 5? One sequel on DC and ports to XBLA, PSN and Steam. No original games outside of DC.

Typing of the Dead? One PS2 and PC sequel.

Virtua Cop? Doesn't deserve to sell well, since they kept porting VC2 over and over and over instead of actually making a fresh new game.

Virtua Tennis? Awesome series on the Dreamcast, glad Sega continued to publish it throughout the years, sales peaked in '07.

 

So of all the Dreamcast games, the IPs that really moved units (Daytona, Crazy Taxi, VF, the 2K Sports Series, Virtua Tennis) were far and few compared to the ones that collected dust on shelves. I could go on, but I think I've made my point and shattered yours. I didn't even get to Saturn games....



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007BondAgent said:
money


This.

SEGA was broke from several past mistakes. The dreamcast was awesome but they didnt have the financial fortitude to see it through.



An endless, continuous and bottomless pit filled to the rafters with dinero.

But they also did not make those silly mistakes that Sega did while simultaneously and successfully monetizing their services (mainly... Xbox Live).



Burn in my light, the arcade also cannibalized the sales of sega consoles post genesis. Why would Sega put out superior versions of the same games else where for twenty-five to fifty cents? They gave only die hards an incentive to buy the dreamcast. Most of the casuals who played Sega games enjoyed them in movie theaters, amusement parks, pool halls and arcades.



Money, and innovation.

Yes, that's right innovation. XBL might not be the gold standard anymore, but MS revolutionized online gaming on consoles. Just sayin......



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I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it before but money.



My 3ds friendcode: 5413-0232-9676 (G-cyber)



Long Story short, they have money.



Angelus said:
Money, and innovation.

Yes, that's right innovation. XBL might not be the gold standard anymore, but MS revolutionized online gaming on consoles. Just sayin......

Because they have money :D

The Dreamcast had online as well but it was discontinued prematurely.

You can make the best and most innovative console in the world. If you don't have the money to market it and secure developer support, it doesn't matter.



$$$$$



CGI-Quality said:
burninmylight said:
CGI-Quality said:
burninmylight said:
CGI-Quality said:
burninmylight said:


I was about to type a similar point. Everyone raves about Sega's IP nowadays, but outside of Sonic, they sold like crap. Jet Grind/Set Radio and Shenmue are the quintessential must-have hipster games now, but they sold like crap back in the day, along with Virtual On, Chu Chu Rocket, Skies of Arcadia and a bunch of others I can't think of at the moment.

I see people online all the time begging for a Shenmue 3 or JSR sequel (and I wouldn't mind the latter + a new Virtual On), but I can guarantee you funding those projects would be the equivalent of shoveling a pile of money into a burning furnace.

Sega games "sold like crap"? Define that and humor me. 


OK, fine. In this instance, "sold like crap" means "didn't sell enough units to recoup development costs, warrant a sequel, or push hardware." Shenmue sold 1.18 million units, an amount normally worthy of celebration back in 2000.

*UNFINISHED DRAFT, WILL RETURN*

Really? Then why did Streets of Rage, Virtua Fighter, and Yakuza all have sequels? Daytona USA? Crazy Taxi? Virtua Tennis? I could go on, but I think I've made my point.


I said I wasn't done and I would return to finish my post. Perhaps I didn't make it big and shiny enough for you to notice.

IF YOU HAD WAITED FOR ME TO LET ME GO BACK AND FINISH BEFORE "PROVING" YOU POINT, 

-long ass post

For that long essay, you still didn't disprove what I said. ;)

You're right. Can't disprove something that was never really there.