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Forums - General Discussion - ESPN journalist Chris Broussard on NBA's Jason Collins: Homosexuality is a sin and living in sin isn't Christian

Have you ever read ESPN The Magazine?

If you have, then you can understand why this guy is a Senior Writer there. The channel's not any better but it's pretty much the only watchable sports channel that there is.



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naruball said:
mrstickball said:
naruball said:

There's a huge difference between considering something a sin and expressing your opinion in a way that affects other people. As a Christian I strongly disapprove of people who cheat on their partners and of people who desire other people's wives/husbands/gfs/bfs, but I don't go around calling them sinners, though they do sin. If they were to ask me, I'd tell them that yes, it is a sin, but it's none of my business or place to tell them what to do. 

Also, by telling gay people that you don't like their lifestyle is more similar to telling black people that you don't approve of their "blackness" than telling cheaters that they sin when they're cheating, as being gay is not a choice.


Being gay in and of itself is not a sin. But the act is. It's been referenced throughout Christendom.

There are many things that people are inclined to do through genetics, yes. But the whole idea of Christianity is to grow and overcome things that are inherent in the fleshly nature.

Take pedophilia. Some may say that its a natural affinity. Does that make it right? Should it be something that people should strive to overcome, or simply say "I can't help it, I must let it rule my life"? No, Christianity is affront to that.

Sexuality is wrapped up in a lot of different lifestyles, and people can be born many different ways. That is why Paul, when discussing sexuality, said that he wishes more people would be as he was - celebate - but knew that such a choice was very difficult, thus why he perscribed heterosexual marriage as an alternative.

 

I'm aware of the bolded. I mentioned that in another comment. 

You can't really compare homosexuality and pedophilia. I'll refrain from explaining why, as it is argument which has been discussed to death. 

Again, the point is not whether homosexual relationships are a sin. That is a fact accodting to the bible. It's stated beyond doubt imo (though some disagree with the interpretation; I still think it's beyond doubt). My argument is that no one (ok only a few people) make an effort to condemn self-abuse, tattoos, premarital sex, etc. Have you seen any people with signs outside frat houses warning them of their sins? Because I'm aware that certain Christians go to funerals of gay men and cause unnecessary emotional pain to the deceased's family. Why don't they go to people's funerals who were divorced, or had premarital sex? Why the obsession with homosexuality?

Also, I'd really appreciate if you were to read my comment on obese girls. Would you date one if the bible told you so (I know it doesn't, but please entertain the possibility for a second). Would you fight your urges for a girl you're are attracted to and either stay alone for the rest of your life or marry a woman you're not attracted to and have a miserable (for both you and her, probably even the kids) marriage?

 

A lot of Christians discuss self-abuse, pre-marital sex, and the like. The tattoo thing is iffy, as its only mentioned in Leviticus, and most Christains would tell you that they follow NT laws, not OT laws.

I agree that Christianity is rather hypocritical about what they follow - divorce and adultery are mentioned more than any other sexual act, but we don't really hear a lot of preaching on it as much as we do homosexuality. I have no idea why they obsess on that one sinful act - I think its mostly from the older crowd that simply isn't used to dealing with such topics as much as they are other things.

As for the obesity statement - if the Bible said that I could only marry obese girls, and I didn't like obese girls.... I wouldn't get married. You know, exactly like what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 7. He said that sexual laws were hard to follow, and he believed the best option was to simply be celbate, as there were a lot of pitfalls in regards to following proper Christian sexual practice. We're supposed to live our lives as changed people for the cause of Christ. Everyone has things they enjoy that aren't comapatable with Christianity. They're supposed to forsake those things, regardless of what they are. Making excuses for such things is simply that - trying to make excuses. It doesn't matter what the sin is, you're supposed to do your best to give it up.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Broussard simply said he believed homosexuality (along with a host of other things) didn't conform to Biblical standards. What's there to get upset about? The guy was asked what his opinion on homosexuality was before his "rant" as you put it. What would you have preferred him do, completely lie about what he believes?

Are we legitimately at the point in society where people can't even express a dissenting opinion against someone's lifestyle without being "hateful?" The guy didn't say that he hated homosexuals, he didn't bash them, he simply said that he didn't believe that homosexuality conformed to his system of beliefs. There's no issue with that whatsoever.



Max King of the Wild said:
He says a lot more than just homosexuals. Honestly, whats the big deal? He believes what he says. You believe the opposite. Okay.

Though I think his definition of being a Christian is wrong. I don't think he says anything too controversial.

I agree with you.  He has the right to express what he believes.  If you don't agree with what he says then that's your right.  As for me, an openly gay Christian, I don't agree with what he says but I'm not upset with what this ESPN journalist states as his belief.  I feel that every Christian lives in sin because everyone sins on a daily basis.



mrstickball said:
naruball said:
mrstickball said:
naruball said:

There's a huge difference between considering something a sin and expressing your opinion in a way that affects other people. As a Christian I strongly disapprove of people who cheat on their partners and of people who desire other people's wives/husbands/gfs/bfs, but I don't go around calling them sinners, though they do sin. If they were to ask me, I'd tell them that yes, it is a sin, but it's none of my business or place to tell them what to do. 

Also, by telling gay people that you don't like their lifestyle is more similar to telling black people that you don't approve of their "blackness" than telling cheaters that they sin when they're cheating, as being gay is not a choice.


Being gay in and of itself is not a sin. But the act is. It's been referenced throughout Christendom.

There are many things that people are inclined to do through genetics, yes. But the whole idea of Christianity is to grow and overcome things that are inherent in the fleshly nature.

Take pedophilia. Some may say that its a natural affinity. Does that make it right? Should it be something that people should strive to overcome, or simply say "I can't help it, I must let it rule my life"? No, Christianity is affront to that.

Sexuality is wrapped up in a lot of different lifestyles, and people can be born many different ways. That is why Paul, when discussing sexuality, said that he wishes more people would be as he was - celebate - but knew that such a choice was very difficult, thus why he perscribed heterosexual marriage as an alternative.

 

I'm aware of the bolded. I mentioned that in another comment. 

You can't really compare homosexuality and pedophilia. I'll refrain from explaining why, as it is argument which has been discussed to death. 

Again, the point is not whether homosexual relationships are a sin. That is a fact accodting to the bible. It's stated beyond doubt imo (though some disagree with the interpretation; I still think it's beyond doubt). My argument is that no one (ok only a few people) make an effort to condemn self-abuse, tattoos, premarital sex, etc. Have you seen any people with signs outside frat houses warning them of their sins? Because I'm aware that certain Christians go to funerals of gay men and cause unnecessary emotional pain to the deceased's family. Why don't they go to people's funerals who were divorced, or had premarital sex? Why the obsession with homosexuality?

Also, I'd really appreciate if you were to read my comment on obese girls. Would you date one if the bible told you so (I know it doesn't, but please entertain the possibility for a second). Would you fight your urges for a girl you're are attracted to and either stay alone for the rest of your life or marry a woman you're not attracted to and have a miserable (for both you and her, probably even the kids) marriage?

 

A lot of Christians discuss self-abuse, pre-marital sex, and the like. The tattoo thing is iffy, as its only mentioned in Leviticus, and most Christains would tell you that they follow NT laws, not OT laws.

I agree that Christianity is rather hypocritical about what they follow - divorce and adultery are mentioned more than any other sexual act, but we don't really hear a lot of preaching on it as much as we do homosexuality. I have no idea why they obsess on that one sinful act - I think its mostly from the older crowd that simply isn't used to dealing with such topics as much as they are other things.

As for the obesity statement - if the Bible said that I could only marry obese girls, and I didn't like obese girls.... I wouldn't get married. You know, exactly like what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 7. He said that sexual laws were hard to follow, and he believed the best option was to simply be celbate, as there were a lot of pitfalls in regards to following proper Christian sexual practice. We're supposed to live our lives as changed people for the cause of Christ. Everyone has things they enjoy that aren't comapatable with Christianity. They're supposed to forsake those things, regardless of what they are. Making excuses for such things is simply that - trying to make excuses. It doesn't matter what the sin is, you're supposed to do your best to give it up.


First of all, thanks for the great response. It's good when you can disagree on something, but have a good discussion nonetheless.

Here are a few things I disagree with: who decides what is right and wrong in the bible? I undestand if somoene says I follow the new testatement, but if you say the biblie, you have to follow every part of it and pay equal attention to each part and not whatever you can avoid easily. For example, when I used to fast with my parents, I had no problem not eating meat, simply because I don't like meat as much as everyone else. So, I'd find it hypocrticial of me I were to tell my dad that he should be a better Christian and avoid meat, when he was used to eating it every day and he had a huge craving for it (gorwing up in a village, they were told that you didn't have lunch, unless you had some meat too).

I think apart from closeted homosexuals who express disgust against homosexuals just to avoid suspicion, the rest of the Christians who express such hatred and place such emphasis on homosexulaity do so because they simply don't have to deal with it. Of course it's easy when you don't like men to tell other men that that's a sin. But what about when you can't resist food and eat like an animal? (isn't gluttony a sin?). My point is, it may be easy for you to say that you wouldn't marry obese girls, but that's just in theory. Imagine a life where everyone around you seems happy, gets to have children, have their weddings, someone they can count on, talk about their daily problems with, and you get to enjoy none of it (so not just sex, but pretty much anything related to love), because of the way that you were born . The only explanation I can give for that is that God gives such people a harder test to prove their faith. But at the same time, I think it's pretty much impossible for more than 90s% of humans to spend their entire lives alone (without a significant other).

Can you picture the rest of your entire life being alone (apart from friends and family)? And like I said, maybe you can in theory, buit in practice it's much more difficult. 



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naruball said:
mrstickball said:

A lot of Christians discuss self-abuse, pre-marital sex, and the like. The tattoo thing is iffy, as its only mentioned in Leviticus, and most Christains would tell you that they follow NT laws, not OT laws.

I agree that Christianity is rather hypocritical about what they follow - divorce and adultery are mentioned more than any other sexual act, but we don't really hear a lot of preaching on it as much as we do homosexuality. I have no idea why they obsess on that one sinful act - I think its mostly from the older crowd that simply isn't used to dealing with such topics as much as they are other things.

As for the obesity statement - if the Bible said that I could only marry obese girls, and I didn't like obese girls.... I wouldn't get married. You know, exactly like what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 7. He said that sexual laws were hard to follow, and he believed the best option was to simply be celbate, as there were a lot of pitfalls in regards to following proper Christian sexual practice. We're supposed to live our lives as changed people for the cause of Christ. Everyone has things they enjoy that aren't comapatable with Christianity. They're supposed to forsake those things, regardless of what they are. Making excuses for such things is simply that - trying to make excuses. It doesn't matter what the sin is, you're supposed to do your best to give it up.


First of all, thanks for the great response. It's good when you can disagree on something, but have a good discussion nonetheless.

Here are a few things I disagree with: who decides what is right and wrong in the bible? I undestand if somoene says I follow the new testatement, but if you say the biblie, you have to follow every part of it and pay equal attention to each part and not whatever you can avoid easily. For example, when I used to fast with my parents, I had no problem not eating meat, simply because I don't like meat as much as everyone else. So, I'd find it hypocrticial of me I were to tell my dad that he should be a better Christian and avoid meat, when he was used to eating it every day and he had a huge craving for it (gorwing up in a village, they were told that you didn't have lunch, unless you had some meat too).

I think apart from closeted homosexuals who express disgust against homosexuals just to avoid suspicion, the rest of the Christians who express such hatred and place such emphasis on homosexulaity do so because they simply don't have to deal with it. Of course it's easy when you don't like men to tell other men that that's a sin. But what about when you can't resist food and eat like an animal? (isn't gluttony a sin?). My point is, it may be easy for you to say that you wouldn't marry obese girls, but that's just in theory. Imagine a life where everyone around you seems happy, gets to have children, have their weddings, someone they can count on, talk about their daily problems with, and you get to enjoy none of it (so not just sex, but pretty much anything related to love), because of the way that you were born . The only explanation I can give for that is that God gives such people a harder test to prove their faith. But at the same time, I think it's pretty much impossible for more than 90s% of humans to spend their entire lives alone (without a significant other).

Can you picture the rest of your entire life being alone (apart from friends and family)? And like I said, maybe you can in theory, buit in practice it's much more difficult. 

Following just the New Testament exclusively has been a common trait throughout Christianity. Read the book of Romans, and other writings through the New Testament, and you'll understand that Jesus Christ fulfilled the Old Testament covenant, and from that, gave us the laws of the New Testament.

Can I picture my life being alone if it were for my orientation? I don't know. But what I do know is that I would trust in Jesus Christ as being the source of my joy, not in people. I understand that for some, following such a commandment would be hard, but there are lots of commandments in the New Testament that are hard to follow. Look at Galatians 5:19-21 and what to avoid as Christians. I fail to see why one would want to separate them out and try to justify some of them, when its obvious that everything is a package, and correlates with each other (the same can be said with the fruits of the spirit).



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.