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Forums - Politics Discussion - What is Christian about American values and ideals like "The American Dream"?

richardhutnik said:

I believe it was also Stalin who also said you didn't eat if you didn't work.


Nope. Stalin said many things, but not this for sure. Do not mix socialism with religion.



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theprof00 said:

Oh I see, so an institution of men can calculate human life based on profit and loss, but a woman does not. Glad you agree with me.

Abortion is another thing - abortion is the most easy way to solve problems, but many ppl thinks this is fair and justice. Of course there is no comparison in abortion in USA and for example China. This can be used for the purposes of deterrence and prevention, there is no desire for revenge. but that's a cold calculation on human life, the profit and loss account. I do not support it, but many people do. If ppl accept it, I must just deal with it.

deal with it then.


Well played. There is such a fckin difference in abortion and capital punishment - The accused did not have time to commit the crime, and that crime is on the left of the uterus. The death penalty applies to murderers, cruel people. It's hard to say whether the unborn child can be treated on a par with murderers, etc..The accused does not have an attorney and can not defend himself. It is easy to pronounce judgment, do not you think? I repeat - I am not for the death penalty, but I understand the motives of people who support the death penalty. There is not easy, there is not a win - win situation.

People who died by capital penalty deserves it - so says the law and judges. If u cannot change the law or jugde, what can u do ? U can accept it or not. If u do not accept it, vote. There is nothing wrong, nothing more .

The whole idea of judgement is to punish for crimes - If there is a crime, there is a punishment. Jesus said killing people for punishment is bad, but who cares now, in 20xx ? So glad we agree with it.



snyps said:
Btw @richard

Good work on the op. I found it mostly interesting and you took the time to point out many hypocrisies in the "christian" American psyche.

There is a tendency for any natural culture to dominate even religious people.   The real demands made by certain religions prove to be too hard, and there is compromise.  I was also thinking of maybe doing a flip post, where i looked at the problems with Fundmamentalist religions.  Those religions are usually end up with individuals with zeal trying to earnestly follow a sacred book, with challenges, so they will get extreme and throw all temperment out.  You get bombings and other horrors by such individuals doing such.  The texts end up bringing out the most extreme views of individuals, and all their own personal hates.



KingofTrolls said:
richardhutnik said:

I believe it was also Stalin who also said you didn't eat if you didn't work.


Nope. Stalin said many things, but not this for sure. Do not mix socialism with religion.

Stalin was theologically trained and dropped out.  He would of been aware of this same verse John Smith supposedly also used.  If it wasn't Stalin, it was another Socialist or Communist who spoke similar.



U wanna discuss about Koba in ,, American Ideals and American Dream " thread ? This is offtop as hell. I can say to u short - Stalin was ateist, hated Church and God.was mentally ill and thought that everyone wants to kill him. people were means of production, or as cannon fodder. only



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KingofTrolls said:
theprof00 said:

Oh I see, so an institution of men can calculate human life based on profit and loss, but a woman does not. Glad you agree with me.

Abortion is another thing - abortion is the most easy way to solve problems, but many ppl thinks this is fair and justice. Of course there is no comparison in abortion in USA and for example China. This can be used for the purposes of deterrence and prevention, there is no desire for revenge. but that's a cold calculation on human life, the profit and loss account. I do not support it, but many people do. If ppl accept it, I must just deal with it.

deal with it then.


Well played. There is such a fckin difference in abortion and capital punishment - The accused did not have time to commit the crime, and that crime is on the left of the uterus. The death penalty applies to murderers, cruel people. It's hard to say whether the unborn child can be treated on a par with murderers, etc..The accused does not have an attorney and can not defend himself. It is easy to pronounce judgment, do not you think? I repeat - I am not for the death penalty, but I understand the motives of people who support the death penalty. There is not easy, there is not a win - win situation.

People who died by capital penalty deserves it - so says the law and judges. If u cannot change the law or jugde, what can u do ? U can accept it or not. If u do not accept it, vote. There is nothing wrong, nothing more .

The whole idea of judgement is to punish for crimes - If there is a crime, there is a punishment. Jesus said killing people for punishment is bad, but who cares now, in 20xx ? So glad we agree with it.

THe only problem is that the Bible says Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Ergo, we shouldn't be allowing capital punishment, yet lo and behold, much of the christian community supports it. Some even say "award capital punishment so that in the next life, the criminal does not have to own up to such grievous sin". Fucking bullshit.



KingofTrolls said:
theprof00 said:

Oh I see, so an institution of men can calculate human life based on profit and loss, but a woman does not. Glad you agree with me.

Abortion is another thing - abortion is the most easy way to solve problems, but many ppl thinks this is fair and justice. Of course there is no comparison in abortion in USA and for example China. This can be used for the purposes of deterrence and prevention, there is no desire for revenge. but that's a cold calculation on human life, the profit and loss account. I do not support it, but many people do. If ppl accept it, I must just deal with it.

deal with it then.


Well played. There is such a fckin difference in abortion and capital punishment - The accused did not have time to commit the crime, and that crime is on the left of the uterus. The death penalty applies to murderers, cruel people. It's hard to say whether the unborn child can be treated on a par with murderers, etc..The accused does not have an attorney and can not defend himself. It is easy to pronounce judgment, do not you think? I repeat - I am not for the death penalty, but I understand the motives of people who support the death penalty. There is not easy, there is not a win - win situation.

People who died by capital penalty deserves it - so says the law and judges. If u cannot change the law or jugde, what can u do ? U can accept it or not. If u do not accept it, vote. There is nothing wrong, nothing more .

The whole idea of judgement is to punish for crimes - If there is a crime, there is a punishment. Jesus said killing people for punishment is bad, but who cares now, in 20xx ? So glad we agree with it.

The bible says LIFE IS SACRED. PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION. DONE.

And I'm not arguing at you, I'm just arguing with you. It is blatant hypocrisy. Hence why I say that even Christians are not Christian.



Life is sacred. True. Unborn children are sacred. True. Capital punishment is bad - from Jezus words. True. Killing others is bad. True.
The only false here is USA goverment who allove to kill people in order to terror other criminalist, preventing crimes, murders etc. It is bad, negative but it WORKS. It works.
Americans are practical people - if something works do not fix it. Social engineering - nothing more nothing less. Cold calcutation. Just like .. Stalin did. Ppl who supports capital punishment do it because they wanna stop criminalist to doing murders, kidnapp etc. Murders and kidnapp, rapes etc are bad things and no one discuss that. No one want to be killed. So how we can defend our citizens, our people ? Everybody;s life is sacred. Victims too. We must defend victims - how ?

Dont perform crime - u will not get killed. This is the message. Ultimate deal - u choose. 

Hey, robber ! Let the victim survive - u will save ur life. We will catch u no matter how, but let her/him life and save ur. Ur life for his/her life.

Mathematic. Cold calcutation. The robber thinks ,, Have I really to kill her ? Try to not kill her maybe, they will not kill me.  "

And it really works.

They dont wanna kill anybody just for killing, rathet to save others.  No one wanna kill and no one wanna get killed.
Social engineering. Psychology. Social analysis.

This is all behind it.



I don't think anything about America is Christian, but i say a few things. I'm not Christian but i agree with some of it's beliefs

Individualism? not really, it was about helping others, respecting each other with privacy and such (eg The Good Samaritan)

Consumerism? definitely not, the bible says about sharing things like food rather than hoarding and keeping it for yourself. Was it ever about living beyond your means?

Crime and Punishment? Thou Shalt not kill etc.

The "American Dream"? to even have a chance of realising this, you have to beat others to it, you can't help someone and get rich.



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the2real4mafol said:
I don't think anything about America is Christian, but i say a few things. I'm not Christian but i agree with some of it's beliefs

Individualism? not really, it was about helping others, respecting each other with privacy and such (eg The Good Samaritan)

Consumerism? definitely not, the bible says about sharing things like food rather than hoarding and keeping it for yourself. Was it ever about living beyond your means?

Crime and Punishment? Thou Shalt not kill etc.

The "American Dream"? to even have a chance of realising this, you have to beat others to it, you can't help someone and get rich.

If you help people and get compensated, you can get rich.  Only someone robbing at outright gunpoint, or killing to take doesn't give something and gets something back.  Anyhow, that is a different subject pretty much, and not quite in scope here.