Forums - Politics Discussion - Conservatism is not about the size of government.

You see, due to what comes out of Republican talk, the idea that somehow conservative = "smaller government".  You hear over and over this out of some political talk.  But, reality is that it is not.  You have conservatives who will advocate for more government in the area of morals, more military and other things.  You see on the left also, anarchists who want no government.

Conservatism is about preserving the past, or return to times seen as superior.  Liberalism is about moving forward and advancing, and throwing out what is seen as standard form.

The real argument for size of government is more of a Libertarian vs Statists.  It can be argued that there has been a Conservative-Libertarian political fusion going on, which has confusing issues.

Ugh, out of time. Will let others comment.



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I agree completely, and that's why I dislike the use of the word "conservative". It doesn't mean "conservative" at all: trying to constitutionally ban gay marriage, overturn all gun control legislation and prohibit abortion are not conservative, they are positively radical.

The political argument in Washington is between right-wing statists and left-wing statists, with the occasional libertarian (Kucinich on the left, Amash on the right) thrown in.

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Kantor said:
I agree completely, and that's why I dislike the use of the word "conservative". It doesn't mean "conservative" at all: trying to constitutionally ban gay marriage, overturn all gun control legislation and prohibit abortion are not conservative, they are positively radical.

Republicans are trying to overturn Roe vs. Wade? Who knew.

I also think it's funny you criticize people for voting against legislature that is all reactionary to the crisises that have happened (especially with all of the evidence against gun control). You also fseem to forget that the DOMA act was passed with Clinton as President. Unless you're referring to state constitutions which have passed in the great majority of states. I'm not advocating for any of the views or platforms, just think your whitewashing is dumb.



Kantor said:
I agree completely, and that's why I dislike the use of the word "conservative". It doesn't mean "conservative" at all: trying to constitutionally ban gay marriage, overturn all gun control legislation and prohibit abortion are not conservative, they are positively radical.

The political argument in Washington is between right-wing statists and left-wing statists, with the occasional libertarian (Kucinich on the left, Amash on the right) thrown in.

In contrast to what is said is "liberal" those ARE Conservative policies.  Yes, they are more radical, but they fit the motiff of trying to preserve the pass than welcoming change.  It certainly isn't Libertarian for the most part (well outside of gun control side).  Is it more radical?  Yes it is.  But is conservative, as opposed to liberal.



Kantor said:
I agree completely, and that's why I dislike the use of the word "conservative". It doesn't mean "conservative" at all: trying to constitutionally ban gay marriage, overturn all gun control legislation and prohibit abortion are not conservative, they are positively radical.

The political argument in Washington is between right-wing statists and left-wing statists, with the occasional libertarian (Kucinich on the left, Amash on the right) thrown in.


Kucinich is no longer in Congress



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The gauge I've generally used to determine political beliefs is based on how an individual feels about government's involvement in both the private and public sector. Conservatives, for example, want less government in the public sector (e.g., the economy), but more governmental control in the private sector (e.g., individual rights).  In contrast, liberals want less government in the private sector, but more in the public sector.  Essentially both sides want bigger and smaller government, just different beliefs on where they should be applied.

Libertarians want less government in both sectors, and I think populists want more control in both sectors (I could be wrong, it's been a while since I've taken a political science class).  Those familar with the Nolan Chart will likely recall these distinctions in American politics (bear in mind that all of these distinctions have been constantly evolving, as well as differing with other nations).



Conservative do want less government. We want the government to only be what it needs to be. Uphold the constitution, enforce laws/justice system, and protect the sovereignty of the nation. Conservatives want simpler cheaper government and don't want waste. We are willing to spend money on defense because without a superior army will will be defenseless against our enemies. We want charities to do what the government shouldn't, but we want police to do what the public shouldn't.

Your confusing conservationism with the religious right who wants to enforce the bible with government laws. It's true that conservatives look at the past and liberals look to the future. But that's because conservatives were happy with the way things used to be and liberals want change at any cost.

There are so many laws that shouldn't exist. If it wasn't for the outdated tax code the government wouldn't be in the business of marriage licenses and the whole gay marriage controversy wouldn't exist. The IRS is one of the best examples of the US government being too big and causing too much waste. Conservatives don't want the government in control of our lives any more than libertarians. The religious right on the other hand wants to impose their version of morals on us just like liberals want to pass laws to impose their versions of morals. They just happen to be in opposition. The Republican party should not be looked at as the representation of conservatives. It may have been in the past, but now it wastes just as much money as the Democrats and grows government only slightly slower.


Conservatives believe the government is very important, but it shouldn't be the giant monster it has become.

kain_kusanagi said:
Conservative do want less government. We want the government to only be what it needs to be. Uphold the constitution, enforce laws/justice system, and protect the sovereignty of the nation. Conservatives want simpler cheaper government and don't want waste. We are willing to spend money on defense because without a superior army will will be defenseless against our enemies. We want charities to do what the government shouldn't, but we want police to do what the public shouldn't.

Your confusing conservationism with the religious right who wants to enforce the bible with government laws. It's true that conservatives look at the past and liberals look to the future. But that's because conservatives were happy with the way things used to be and liberals want change at any cost.

There are so many laws that shouldn't exist. If it wasn't for the outdated tax code the government wouldn't be in the business of marriage licenses and the whole gay marriage controversy wouldn't exist. The IRS is one of the best examples of the US government being too big and causing too much waste. Conservatives don't want the government in control of our lives any more than libertarians. The religious right on the other hand wants to impose their version of morals on us just like liberals want to pass laws to impose their versions of morals. They just happen to be in opposition. The Republican party should not be looked at as the representation of conservatives. It may have been in the past, but now it wastes just as much money as the Democrats and grows government only slightly slower.


Conservatives believe the government is very important, but it shouldn't be the giant monster it has become.

This.  I think the problem is that many on the left look at the establishment Republicans as Conservatives, but they are not.  Most actually want a large government and control of the government's purse.  Sure, they don't want to go quite so far in their control/spending as liberals do, but that sure as heck doesn't make them conservative.  Conservatives also believe in state's rights/power, instead of how we've become ruled by an ever increasing Federal government.  One that squishes the state's rule when they do something those in charge disagree with.



  

Delusional, the new N-word.

This is largely semantics.  Everybody knows that the definition of "conservative", "liberal" and "libertarian" have evolved quite a bit over time.  Many people who call themselves libertarians or conservatives today are classical liberals in the historic sense of the word.  The current meaning of the words is also very different from country to country.  The words "Conservative" and "Liberal" in Canada mean something very different than they do in the United States.



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thismeintiel said:
kain_kusanagi said:
Conservative do want less government. We want the government to only be what it needs to be. Uphold the constitution, enforce laws/justice system, and protect the sovereignty of the nation. Conservatives want simpler cheaper government and don't want waste. We are willing to spend money on defense because without a superior army will will be defenseless against our enemies. We want charities to do what the government shouldn't, but we want police to do what the public shouldn't.

Your confusing conservationism with the religious right who wants to enforce the bible with government laws. It's true that conservatives look at the past and liberals look to the future. But that's because conservatives were happy with the way things used to be and liberals want change at any cost.

There are so many laws that shouldn't exist. If it wasn't for the outdated tax code the government wouldn't be in the business of marriage licenses and the whole gay marriage controversy wouldn't exist. The IRS is one of the best examples of the US government being too big and causing too much waste. Conservatives don't want the government in control of our lives any more than libertarians. The religious right on the other hand wants to impose their version of morals on us just like liberals want to pass laws to impose their versions of morals. They just happen to be in opposition. The Republican party should not be looked at as the representation of conservatives. It may have been in the past, but now it wastes just as much money as the Democrats and grows government only slightly slower.


Conservatives believe the government is very important, but it shouldn't be the giant monster it has become.

This.  I think the problem is that many on the left look at the establishment Republicans as Conservatives, but they are not.  Most actually want a large government and control of the government's purse.  Sure, they don't want to go quite so far in their control/spending as liberals do, but that sure as heck doesn't make them conservative.  Conservatives also believe in state's rights/power, instead of how we've become ruled by an ever increasing Federal government.  One that squishes the state's rule when they do something those in charge disagree with.

Yes, yes, and yes.