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Forums - Sony Discussion - Killzone developer 'PS4 has no performance bottlenecks'

taus90 on 09 April 2013
walsufnir said:
taus90 said:
walsufnir said:
taus90 said:
Didn't GG help design PS4? And so many people confused about what bottle necks GG are talking about.. some are confusing it with peak performance!.. some are considering to bog down the cpu and gpu with inefficient codes and a poorly written engine.

So in simple terms PS4 has what? some where around 1.8 ish teraflops, what GG meant is that none of the components in the system will hold back the other to achieve that performance... best example is PS3, CELL was bottle necked by weak gpu and gpu was further bottled neck by memory pool. But I m sure people will still beat around the bush


basically every console is made for balance, only ps3 was really unbalanced. if sony changed that, ok. but ps1, ps2, xbox (360), gamecube, wii... all were designed for balance. this is nothing new or surprising. thing is: you can repeat what all others before you said with confusing limited performance and bottleneck but that doesn't mean there is no bottleneck. it *always* depends on your code and what you want it to do. simple as that. repeating false arguments doesn't make tham true.

thats what GG is trying to say they developed HW not to have any bottle necks. how developers bottle neck the system is different story altogether.. And if i could remember all sony console was built around a specific component for PS1 it was CD, PS2 EE, GS and PS3 CELL.. for PS4 they have unified approach.

Both PS4 and NXTX will be weaker, the only question is which one will be the weakest between the two!

Why is this an important question?

yeah i know its kind of irrelevant, should have added p.s :D



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walsufnir on 09 April 2013
taus90 said:
walsufnir said:
taus90 said:
walsufnir said:
taus90 said:
Didn't GG help design PS4? And so many people confused about what bottle necks GG are talking about.. some are confusing it with peak performance!.. some are considering to bog down the cpu and gpu with inefficient codes and a poorly written engine.

So in simple terms PS4 has what? some where around 1.8 ish teraflops, what GG meant is that none of the components in the system will hold back the other to achieve that performance... best example is PS3, CELL was bottle necked by weak gpu and gpu was further bottled neck by memory pool. But I m sure people will still beat around the bush


basically every console is made for balance, only ps3 was really unbalanced. if sony changed that, ok. but ps1, ps2, xbox (360), gamecube, wii... all were designed for balance. this is nothing new or surprising. thing is: you can repeat what all others before you said with confusing limited performance and bottleneck but that doesn't mean there is no bottleneck. it *always* depends on your code and what you want it to do. simple as that. repeating false arguments doesn't make tham true.

thats what GG is trying to say they developed HW not to have any bottle necks. how developers bottle neck the system is different story altogether.. And if i could remember all sony console was built around a specific component for PS1 it was CD, PS2 EE, GS and PS3 CELL.. for PS4 they have unified approach.

Both PS4 and NXTX will be weaker, the only question is which one will be the weakest between the two!

Why is this an important question?

yeah i know its kind of irrelevant, should have added p.s :D

OK :) Well, I don't say it isn't important for me but I am mostly interested in how they are different and how the systems will work as a whole. PS3 was also better performance-wise than x360, didn't change my mind. And remember ppl have something to argue about! Forums would be boring without usual suspects twisting every bit of their favorite console to make it look better than the other ;)



LivingMetal on 09 April 2013
curl-6 said:
LivingMetal said:
J_Allard said:
They did say it. It's right there in the PR. Real time graphics comparable to movie-quality 3D graphics. So they are not only referring to Toy Story, but any other movie.

I mean, what if LeBron James said this years Heat was the best team ever. And then someone writes an article saying the LeBron thinks the Heat are better than the 96 Bulls. Wouldn't it be silly for someone to sit and defend LeBron saying "oh man he never said 96 Bulls!!"

Yes he did, he said best team ever. Which includes those Bulls. Sony said real time graphics comparable to movies. Which includes Toy Story.

Anyway this is not really on topic so I am going to stop replying but people are right to call out Sony for that, just like you can call MS out for the exact same thing and hell even the same movie franchise.

You must be reading another press release than the one you just posted because Sony never mentioned in-game graphics. They said "The quality of the resulting screen image..."   They didn't say  "The quality of the resulting gameplay footage..."  Don't tell me I'm going off topic when you gave your fellow Xbox supporter a free pass for going off topic, first.  And I wasn't faulting Microsoft for making the Toy Story graphics claim.  I was only showing that people need to be consistant when making certain claims.  Dont blame me for someone else using an erroneous claim while I used facts to support my point.

Oh please, it's obvious what they were suggesting, don't try to split hairs. They bullshitted. Like many companies do to promote their products. Not saying that's what happening here, this seems to be more a case of PR talk not to be taken literally; what they seem to mean is that they haven't run into a bottleneck yet.

Most every game on a particular console is going to look different depending on how resources are utilized.  As I mentioned earlier, the tech demos can be argued to resemble Toy Stoy graphics, but the actual in-game graphics (finally revealed when showcased much later) are going to fall short because of resource allocation.  Not spliting hairs, just using common sense.



VGKing on 09 April 2013
taus90 said:
Didn't GG help design PS4? And so many people confused about what bottle necks GG are talking about.. some are confusing it with peak performance!.. some are considering to bog down the cpu and gpu with inefficient codes and a poorly written engine.

So in simple terms PS4 has what? some where around 1.8 ish teraflops, what GG meant is that none of the components in the system will hold back the other to achieve that performance... best example is PS3, CELL was bottle necked by weak gpu and gpu was further bottled neck by memory pool. But I m sure people will still beat around the bush

Yes, exactly. I don't see how people can't undertand this. They are just looking for something to hate on.



VGKing on 09 April 2013
XxPS3_X360xX said:

I think he means on RAM issues. The PS3 only had 256 shared DDR3 Ram, but the PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 memory. The GPU cand CPU are the only bottlenecks that could hurt the PS4..... in 2018

The CPU/GPU aren't exactly bottlenecks. Will they be weak in 5 years? Yes, but they won't be bottlenecks unless you are trying to port a game made for $5000 uber-PCs to the PS4.



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VGKing on 09 April 2013
walsufnir said:
VGKing said:
walsufnir said:
VGKing said:
walsufnir said:
Killzone devs saying PS4 has no bottlenecks? Wow, surprising, first party-devs praising the system :) And of course wrong, every system has bottlenecks, it's just a computer and they all have bottlenecks.

Not just 1st party, all developers are praising the console, even indies. Not 1 negative thing has been said about the console.

I think the console did have a bottleneck and that was the 4GB of GDDR5. Eventually it was going to be an issue which is why they upgraded to 8GB.

It doesn't matter what you think, it of course has bottlenecks, like every other computer. Again, I repeat it just for you again, this doesn't have to be bad but it's the way it is. Like it or not.

NO, IT DOESN'T. Are you calling Guerilla Games liars?

A bottleneck is something that limits something else such as a low amount of RAM limiting the kind of graphics than can be displayed or a weak CPU that limits frame-rate.

The PS4 uses an APU design, everything works together. The GPU/CPU/RAM all play nice with each other. None of these components are too powerful or too weak. It is a balanced system designed to be easy to work with. NO BOTTLENECKS. NOT 1 LIMITNG FACTOR.

Could the PS4 be more powerful? Of course. But power isn't what is being addressed here, efficiency is.

what's this screaming for? people who need to scream have weak arguments. i say it has, you say it hasn't. i have a diploma in computer science, you have your opinion. 

/discussion

There's no screaming. I'm using capitals to highlight important points in my comment.
No, I don't NEED TO use capticals, but using them puts a greater emphasis on the words like I just did in this sentence.

If you have no rebuttal, just admit defeat. No need to result to insults.

You say PS4 has a bottleneck. What is it then? I'm curious as to what you and your computer science diploma have to say.



walsufnir on 09 April 2013
VGKing said:
walsufnir said:
VGKing said:
walsufnir said:
VGKing said:
walsufnir said:
Killzone devs saying PS4 has no bottlenecks? Wow, surprising, first party-devs praising the system :) And of course wrong, every system has bottlenecks, it's just a computer and they all have bottlenecks.

Not just 1st party, all developers are praising the console, even indies. Not 1 negative thing has been said about the console.

I think the console did have a bottleneck and that was the 4GB of GDDR5. Eventually it was going to be an issue which is why they upgraded to 8GB.

It doesn't matter what you think, it of course has bottlenecks, like every other computer. Again, I repeat it just for you again, this doesn't have to be bad but it's the way it is. Like it or not.

NO, IT DOESN'T. Are you calling Guerilla Games liars?

A bottleneck is something that limits something else such as a low amount of RAM limiting the kind of graphics than can be displayed or a weak CPU that limits frame-rate.

The PS4 uses an APU design, everything works together. The GPU/CPU/RAM all play nice with each other. None of these components are too powerful or too weak. It is a balanced system designed to be easy to work with. NO BOTTLENECKS. NOT 1 LIMITNG FACTOR.

Could the PS4 be more powerful? Of course. But power isn't what is being addressed here, efficiency is.

what's this screaming for? people who need to scream have weak arguments. i say it has, you say it hasn't. i have a diploma in computer science, you have your opinion.

/discussion

There's no screaming. I'm using capitals to highlight important points in my comment.
No, I don't NEED TO use capticals, but using them puts a greater emphasis on the words like I just did in this sentence.

If you have no rebuttal, just admit defeat. No need to result to insults.

You say PS4 has a bottleneck. What is it then? I'm curious as to what you and your computer science diploma have to say.

read http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=5267274

to make it short: for the computing units mostly everything is bottleneck, that is why every computer has bottlenecks.



VGKing on 09 April 2013
CGI-Quality said:
VGKing said:
XxPS3_X360xX said:

I think he means on RAM issues. The PS3 only had 256 shared DDR3 Ram, but the PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 memory. The GPU cand CPU are the only bottlenecks that could hurt the PS4..... in 2018

The CPU/GPU aren't exactly bottlenecks. Will they be weak in 5 years? Yes, but they won't be bottlenecks unless you are trying to port a game made for $5000 uber-PCs to the PS4.

It's not about how weak/strong something is down the line. A weaker CPU to a, relatively, stronger GPU can bottleneck a set-up. This can happen out of the gate. I just don't imagine that it will and this guy is mainly speaking about the balanced architecture of the system. Bottlenecks can still ahppen, no matter, though.

Are you saying the CPU inside the PS4 is too weak to handle the GPU? It's not a high-end CPU but I'm sure they went with it for a reason. If the CPU was a bottleneck, they woulndn't have went with it. Guerilla Games wouldnd't have gone on record saying PS4 has no performance bottlenecks. I think some early proof that what he is saying is true is by looking at the Killzone ShadowFall demo. Some website(maybe Digital Foundry) did an analysis of the trailer and it seemed to be running at a constant 30FPS. No performance dips.

If you saw early PS3/360 games or even Wii U games, there were performance issues. Why? Bottlenecks. Developers still hadn't found ways around them.



walsufnir on 09 April 2013
VGKing said:
CGI-Quality said:
VGKing said:
XxPS3_X360xX said:

I think he means on RAM issues. The PS3 only had 256 shared DDR3 Ram, but the PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 memory. The GPU cand CPU are the only bottlenecks that could hurt the PS4..... in 2018

The CPU/GPU aren't exactly bottlenecks. Will they be weak in 5 years? Yes, but they won't be bottlenecks unless you are trying to port a game made for $5000 uber-PCs to the PS4.

It's not about how weak/strong something is down the line. A weaker CPU to a, relatively, stronger GPU can bottleneck a set-up. This can happen out of the gate. I just don't imagine that it will and this guy is mainly speaking about the balanced architecture of the system. Bottlenecks can still ahppen, no matter, though.

Are you saying the CPU inside the PS4 is too weak to handle the GPU? It's not a high-end CPU but I'm sure they went with it for a reason. If the CPU was a bottleneck, they woulndn't have went with it. Guerilla Games wouldnd't have gone on record saying PS4 has no performance bottlenecks. I think some early proof that what he is saying is true is by looking at the Killzone ShadowFall demo. Some website(maybe Digital Foundry) did an analysis of the trailer and it seemed to be running at a constant 30FPS. No performance dips.

If you saw early PS3/360 games or even Wii U games, there were performance issues. Why? Bottlenecks. Developers still hadn't found ways around them.

What exactly was the bottleneck from your understanding in 360's design?



VGKing on 09 April 2013
walsufnir said:
VGKing said:
walsufnir said:
VGKing said:
walsufnir said:
VGKing said:
walsufnir said:
Killzone devs saying PS4 has no bottlenecks? Wow, surprising, first party-devs praising the system :) And of course wrong, every system has bottlenecks, it's just a computer and they all have bottlenecks.

Not just 1st party, all developers are praising the console, even indies. Not 1 negative thing has been said about the console.

I think the console did have a bottleneck and that was the 4GB of GDDR5. Eventually it was going to be an issue which is why they upgraded to 8GB.

It doesn't matter what you think, it of course has bottlenecks, like every other computer. Again, I repeat it just for you again, this doesn't have to be bad but it's the way it is. Like it or not.

NO, IT DOESN'T. Are you calling Guerilla Games liars?

A bottleneck is something that limits something else such as a low amount of RAM limiting the kind of graphics than can be displayed or a weak CPU that limits frame-rate.

The PS4 uses an APU design, everything works together. The GPU/CPU/RAM all play nice with each other. None of these components are too powerful or too weak. It is a balanced system designed to be easy to work with. NO BOTTLENECKS. NOT 1 LIMITNG FACTOR.

Could the PS4 be more powerful? Of course. But power isn't what is being addressed here, efficiency is.

what's this screaming for? people who need to scream have weak arguments. i say it has, you say it hasn't. i have a diploma in computer science, you have your opinion.

/discussion

There's no screaming. I'm using capitals to highlight important points in my comment.
No, I don't NEED TO use capticals, but using them puts a greater emphasis on the words like I just did in this sentence.

If you have no rebuttal, just admit defeat. No need to result to insults.

You say PS4 has a bottleneck. What is it then? I'm curious as to what you and your computer science diploma have to say.

read http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=5267274

to make it short: for the computing units mostly everything is bottleneck, that is why every computer has bottlenecks.

Of course if you look deep enough you're going to find something that is a "bottleneck". But I believe what GG is talking about is stuff they actually have control over such as CPU/GPU/RAM/etc. PS4 isn't a quantum computer, I think everyone knows that. No one said it is perfect and able to be used with 100% efficiency either. NOTHING is able to used at 100% as far as I'm aware.

PS4 has no performance bottlenecks. The system was built to be as efficient as humanly possible with todays current technology.