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Forums - Politics Discussion - Margaret Thatcher RIP.

As overrated as Reagan, if not more so.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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BaldrSkies said:

Will there ever be another duo as iconic as these two?

 

idk i heard thes two were pretty damn iconic





RIP.

Also, does anyone else find it ironic that people who are celebrating her dead, probably weren't even born when she was the PM.



 

 

Thatcher is the one thing in this world that makes me wish religion is true.

I wish there were an afterlife, so she could suffer as much in it as she made people suffer in this life.



She was useless.



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the2real4mafol said:

She was a strong leader, did she ever really u-turn on anything?

Yes.

She went from supporting legalising homosexuality in the 1960s to passing a disgusting piece of legislation known as Section 28 in the late 80s.



Hapimeses said:
To give you an idea of just how hated Thatcher is here in Scotland, there are parties going on right now because she's dead. I have friends on Facebook posting about it. They're in attendance. They lived through what her policies did to the people they loved, and it seems they are looking for release. Not my bag, but I understand.

Further, I'm spotting parties popping up all over the country now. For example, down in London:
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-04-08/revellers-in-brixton-celebrate-thatchers-death/

Some people liked her. Some didn't. But a hell of a lot really, quite absolutely, hated her.

I'm sure her grandchildren appreciate the thought. I'm actually quite disgraced by a lot of our population today and yesterday, regardless of the things she did, celebrating a death in such a manner is disgraceful.



Hmm, pie.

Wasn't she kind of evil?



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

kowenicki said:
the2real4mafol said:
kowenicki said:
I'm from near Manchester, thats VERY different to Liverpool as you know.

The context is everything.  This country was totally fucked, going to the IMF for handouts.  The Unions HAD to be destroyed. They were bringing down governments, holding new governments to ransom.   There was bound to be casulaties and that is a shame for those individuals.  But it HAD to be done. 

Some of your list is a joke by the way.  Hillsborough...?  huh?  S. Yorkshire police corruption (again) I think you'll find.  Most Yorkshire polices forces appear to be corrupt or inept dont they?

Utilities privatisation has lead to higher prices? that about as far from the truth as you could get.  You know how many Telephone companies in Europe were private before BT went public?  None.  How many now?  All of them.    Privatisation was absolutely essential.  If you like state ownership move East... much further East.  She didnt just start privatisation here, she made it happen in the whole of Europe, because its a good idea.

She didnt destroy British Maniufacturing, British manufacturing and the unions destroyed themselves.  Manufacturing is actually alive and well contrary to popular belief.

She didnt care about the working class?  She was working class.  She liberated the working class... if you had an appetitie to work.

Every PM has handled the NHS badly... its beyond anything else, its basically a cash sink.

Falklands... not even going there.  I dont know how anyone can question what happened there.

 

The one bad thing she did?  Invented New Labour.

How many of the policies did Labout overturn?  None.  She won the argument big time and socialism was killed in her time in office.  For that alone I thank her.

 

You missed out a very big deal.... helping bring down the Soviet Block and ensuring world peace.  Reagan and Thatcher (after Thatcher persuaded Reagan) did "business" with Gorbachev and it all started from there.

Maybe the unions had too much power before Thatcher came into power but she destroyed numerous rural communities out there, manufacturing and mining were especially hit hard. Many places that grew on these 2 things haven't recovered since then, despite being 30 years. You may point out the miners strike of 84, but she was going to shut them down anyway. These people were fighting for there livelihoods and she took it from anyway. The community spirit in such places was destroyed for good and to think we could of been in a good position selling our good coal to China and India right now if the mining industry had survived. The hatred from the North is because so gutted such mining communities of there souls. 

And if manufacturing is so alive here, where is it? Every factory in my area has vanished, they are either abandoned or some housing development now.

And you surely can't defend the Poll Tax of 1989, in any system a Lord shouldn't pay the same tax rate as a council tenant, that's extremely unfair and i'm glad we the people defeated her on that (partly thanks to Scotland)

And you say she liberated the working class, how? Unemployment was much higher back then, i think it peaked at 3 million and she closed the GLC because that number was leaked. Deindustrialisation played apart but so did privatisation. Inflation was also high at 15% at times. Interest rates were as high as 15% at times. VAT was raised by alot, hurting the poor even more in a tough time. And i partly blame her for today's recession because of deregulating the finance sector (which only benefitted London by the way), which has lead to a rediculous bonus culture for CEO's of Banks. The massive sell off of our assets means we don't even benefit from the profit, British rail, BT, British gas and others had. The profits are now left in some off shore bank account doing nothing. And prices have gone through the roof since privatisation, just look at how expensive trains are these days and look at the huge profits British gas make despite falling energy prices.

I'm not sure how much this has to do with her, but the Media seemed to be biased in her favour by any media that Rupert Murdoch owned. It's possible she had a deal with him to get good press just like Tony Blair did. Man I hate the Sun, worst paper ever. News shouldn't be biased in anyway. Also, the BBC admitted it altered any footage of the Miner's strike to make it look like the police were attacked when it was the opposite way round.

Northern Ireland- she pretty much acted like the British Empire did there. She had the army repress the people there which caused widespread violence. It's no wonder the IRA tried to blow her up in Brighton in 1984. Since, Labour devolved power to Northern Ireland in 1999, there has been much more peace.

Education- she did little to make it better and new schools and equipment was needed. I'm proud to have been educated under Labour for nearly my whole education. It's a shame Tories want to fuck it up now. 

I won't talk about Hillsbourough but there were many riots under her rule. Brixton being just one of them.

What good did she actually for Scotland, Wales, the Midlands etc. Scotland and Wales were completely controlled by Westminister back then but seemingly ignored by her

It's not all bad though i think some things she did were good.

The Falklands, she defended our territory as the people living wanted despite no backing up from Reagan or any non-communist european leaders. It's a shame, Argentina would just forget about it already. It was never theirs.

Despite mass privatisation, she left the NHS alone. Hopefully, Cameron will too.

She was a strong leader, did she ever really u-turn on anything?

Europe- i like that she was skeptic about the project. Just look at the mess it's in now, even though we are no better off. 

Finally

Socialism may be dead for now, but do you really think this form of capitalism is failing big time. Growing up into such a broken system now, i don't trust it. I'm gonna start a degree this year and might not even be able to get a job when i finish in 3 and a bit years time. the current economy shows no future at all. Not Thatcher's fault but it's capitalism fault. Boom and bust must stop now. A mixture of capitalism with Socialism is best.

Overall, better than Blair but i still overwhelmingly disagree with her. At least she could win a war. Also, Blair's ID cards idea was also bad

USSR- all she and Reagan did was put pressure on them. The Soviets couldn't handle it and so dissolved it and went to Capitalism. Gorbachev lead a peaceful transition to Capitalism. 

I dont want to get into a political debate here but a lot of that is frankly nonsense.

Proud to have been educated under Labour?  what the hell does that even mean?

Your last sentence about the USSR is hilarious... all she did?  lol. 

If I take two parts as an example of how you have been reading or listening to silly propaganda...

1. Labour gave devolution to N.Ireland!?!?  wtf?  Devolution was a Tory action, started in the early 1990's by John Major and completed in 1999 by Labour.  Learn your history. I worked in Belfast for a time in 1996, the army had all but vanished (sentry posts had gone) and the devolution talks had begun. Some of the worst happening in N.Ireland happened under Labour as much as Tory governments.

2. "I think it peaked at 3 million and she closed the GLC because that number was leaked"

Yes unemployment continued to rise under Thatcher at first... but it also ended up falling massively by the time her policies had taken hold.  And saying that she closed the GLC for leaking the number is a load of old bollocks.  The office for national statistice release unemplyment data monthly, always has, always will, why would the General London Council have anything to do with that!?  Very odd thing to say.

Also, manufacturing exports from the UK hardly changed under Thatcher... thats a fact. Yes certain industries closed.. rightly as they were dying and a mess, but other took their place.  Again by the end of her tenure the exports were rising dramatically. 

The UK is still in the top 10 biggest global exporters of goods and is the 3rd biggest global exporter of services.  Dont believe the hype that we have no industry.

Essentially the message is no gain without pain.  It was a pain, it was very painful for some, but it was a pain that was required and essential for the time.    Socialism isn't dead for now, its dead forever here, they lost the argument.

 

Sorry to quote this entire thing but I'm on my mobile and can't select individual bit

The2real4myfol said; "Northern Ireland- she pretty much acted like the British Empire did there. She had the army repress the people there which caused widespread violence. It's no wonder the IRA tried to blow her up in Brighton in 1984. Since, Labour devolved power to Northern Ireland in 1999, there has been much more peace." 

Now I'm from Northern Ireland. I don't know whether your comments were made in haste or ignorance but I'm thinking a bit of both. Look up the Easter rising of 1916. Thatcher wasn't there. Or try the rebellion of 1798. Again, no Thatcher. Numerous other rebellions have occurred but alas, no evil Thatcher. Bloody Sunday (1972) is something else that gets placed at Thatchers door by the... Lets call them youth of today. It always gives me pleasure to inform them how she wasn't în power until almost a decadè later.

The IRA despised Thatcher because she said "NO" to their demands. They went on a killing spree and still she refused to budge, even when they threatened her life. She signed the Anglo Irish agreement in 1985, which she later admitted regretting as it caused more problems, but it was the only concession she offered.  Your claims that Labour brought peace to Northern Ireland is laughable.  In 1996 the IRA blew up the Conary Wharf, breaking another ceasefire and hoping to strongarm the British government. Luckily for the IRA, Labour were coming to power in 1997. They formed the Good Friday Agreement which oversaw the release of hundreds of prisoners convicted of paramilitary involvement as a goodwill gesture as well as enabling known IRA terrorists to take seats of power at Stormount Assembly. Gerry Adams is believed to have been activly involved in numerous bombings and has seen the inside of a prison cell. Martin McGuiness, Deputy Minister now, widely acknowlegded as the main man in Londonderry in the 70's. Alex Maskey, another porridge lover whos seen the inside of more prison cells than the average prison warden. Is this the devolved pwer you referred to by Labour? Also, remember the Masserrene Barracks incident that involved the death of British soldiers in 2009? There is still trouble here today, is that the fault of Thatcher? Your Labour goverment didnt have the stomach for a fight with the IRA. They gave more in a heartbeat than Thatcher.

The Falklands, she defended our territory as the people living wanted despite no backing up from Reagan or any non-communist european leaders. It's a shame, Argentina would just forget about it already. It was never theirs.

So, in complete contradiction of yourself, you agree she should have defended the Falklands because "the people living there wanted it." So did the people of Nortern Ireland. And Thatcher fought for it. I don't understand why you think there's a difference. 

Edit; I have been a bit disprespectful to Margaret Thatcher in my post. I meant to say "Lady Thatcher".



TeddostheFireKing said:
kowenicki said:
TeddostheFireKing said:
I was only born in 1992, so I never really appreciated what Thatcher did. I grew up in a Labour area near Liverpool, my dad and close family were Conservative though, but overall, I got a positive impression for Thatcher. The only people I get annoyed at are those who don't seem to know who she is or dislike her just for the sake of disliking her (cause they don't actually know what she did >.>).


or are brainwashed by their localtity and family tradition...  thats the problem with UK politics.  Most people havent got a clue. the only thing worse than them?  Champagne solcialist, or the comfortable traditionla middle scalss that want to look after the poor poor working classes.  Winds me up.

I like it when people like you... and me... kick against the grain.  I grew up next to (and went to school on) the biggest council estate in my locality.  I didnt sulk and think I'm screwed, the rich people hate us etc etc.  I decided that Iwould better myself and went for it.  You can be waht you want to be in Britain, mainly due to Thatcher.

I definitely agree with the bolded. These past couple elections, I ask all my family and older friends who they are going to vote for, the answer? Labour or Conservative, I ask why? Because they've always voted for them >.> That simply isn't a way to progress. I feel we need another Tony Blair style shake up of Parliament just to help break these issues (changing first past the post would also help, it's an absolutely awful system that needs to go).

It is fun to kick against the grain for sure :P One issue which always lands me in hot water is my strong affinity towards greater integration with the EU and dislike of America

You put it well though, in Britain, if you put the effort in, there is always a way to get a good job and a good life, which we can thank Thatcher for :)

May i ask why it is that you dislike America? Im just curious, as I personally think America is pretty dumb sometimes when it comes to foreign policy and what not but overall i think they are better than most countries out there. I just want to know your reasons for the resentment!



I mostly play RTS and Moba style games now adays as well as ALOT of benchmarking. I do play other games however such as the witcher 3 and Crysis 3, and recently Ashes of the Singularity. I love gaming on the cutting edge and refuse to accept any compromises. Proud member of the Glorious PC Gaming Master Race. Long Live SHIO!!!!