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Games are not art!

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LilChicken22 said:
Everybody considers art different. For me games are art because it's extremely difficult to bring a made up world to life with music, artist, characters and good gameplay. I don't consider paintings like this http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nN4X_z40N0U/T0D-DZIdEkI/AAAAAAAACSk/2gJtrX4SAdU/s1600/Pollock_no-5.jpg as art because boring people see things that aren't there. (FACT: this is the most expensive painting ever).


It was until last week when Picasso's Le Reve ($155 million) surpassed it.  (Not sure how currency and inflation rates effect it so could be tricky to state it admittedly).

I agree on your point though, art is what we say it is.  Games to me are a form of art on par with literature and film.  I think this mentality comes from an older generation that either is ignorant of the medium or still pictures pong and pac-man when they hear video games.



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LilChicken22 said:
Everybody considers art different. For me games are art because it's extremely difficult to bring a made up world to life with music, artist, characters and good gameplay. I don't consider paintings like this http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nN4X_z40N0U/T0D-DZIdEkI/AAAAAAAACSk/2gJtrX4SAdU/s1600/Pollock_no-5.jpg as art because boring people see things that aren't there. (FACT: this is the most expensive painting ever).


 In the study of Chaos in Physics, you can analyse patterns and shapes for something called their fractal dimension, which basically analyses how repeated the shapes or patterns are within a picture. They're basically patterns that repeat themselves as they are created through a mathematic formula or equation which is repeated over and over - I'm sure you've seen fractals before. Anywho you can apply this analysis to any picture and get its fractal dimension.

 Whats interesting is if you analyse Pollocks work to find their fractal dimension they actually have a (non-integer, as expected) value! and as you look at the painting throughout his career as he went along over time the painting have a higher fractal value so as to suggest his 'style' improved or became more formulaic / adjusted / improved as he went throughout his career. 

http://discovermagazine.com/2001/nov/featpollock#.UV3uwJM3vIM

 I did a pretty bad job of explaining it so read the link above to get a better idea - point is I think it's a great argument against people just saying abstract art like Pollocks work is just smoke and mirrors. The mathmatical analysis done on his work isn't something that would give any type of fractal dimensionality if I had just throw paint at a canvas.



aikohualda said:
games are science!!!!

Game design is an art, not a science.  Not set of rules will produce an entertaining game, because no set of rules can produce rules, which is what a game is.  And a game very much can be consider a product of a craft actually.  It is a toy meant to entertain.  Whether it is an art, would depend on the intention of the designer and communicating a message.  



richardhutnik said:
aikohualda said:
games are science!!!!

Game design is an art, not a science.  Not set of rules will produce an entertaining game, because no set of rules can produce rules, which is what a game is.  And a game very much can be consider a product of a craft actually.  It is a toy meant to entertain.  Whether it is an art, would depend on the intention of the designer and communicating a message.  

a game design made possible by science



 

aikohualda said:
richardhutnik said:
aikohualda said:
games are science!!!!

Game design is an art, not a science.  Not set of rules will produce an entertaining game, because no set of rules can produce rules, which is what a game is.  And a game very much can be consider a product of a craft actually.  It is a toy meant to entertain.  Whether it is an art, would depend on the intention of the designer and communicating a message.  

a game design made possible by science

All technology used by art has some sort of science behind it today.  However, there is even art in the formation of science and the development of hypothesis.  There is just some things you can't use a recipe to generate.  Science is all about repeatable processes.  Art is not a repeatable process.  Well, that which differentiates art from science, is non-repeatable processes to make it a work of art.



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richardhutnik said:
aikohualda said:
richardhutnik said:
aikohualda said:
games are science!!!!

Game design is an art, not a science.  Not set of rules will produce an entertaining game, because no set of rules can produce rules, which is what a game is.  And a game very much can be consider a product of a craft actually.  It is a toy meant to entertain.  Whether it is an art, would depend on the intention of the designer and communicating a message.  

a game design made possible by science

All technology used by art has some sort of science behind it today.  However, there is even art in the formation of science and the development of hypothesis.  There is just some things you can't use a recipe to generate.  Science is all about repeatable processes.  Art is not a repeatable process.  Well, that which differentiates art from science, is non-repeatable processes to make it a work of art.

mostly science... since technology is the application of scientific knowledge for practical purposes...





 

Video games can be art, just like a car can be art. The medium itself is not art.



aikohualda said:
richardhutnik said:
aikohualda said:
richardhutnik said:
aikohualda said:
games are science!!!!

Game design is an art, not a science.  Not set of rules will produce an entertaining game, because no set of rules can produce rules, which is what a game is.  And a game very much can be consider a product of a craft actually.  It is a toy meant to entertain.  Whether it is an art, would depend on the intention of the designer and communicating a message.  

a game design made possible by science

All technology used by art has some sort of science behind it today.  However, there is even art in the formation of science and the development of hypothesis.  There is just some things you can't use a recipe to generate.  Science is all about repeatable processes.  Art is not a repeatable process.  Well, that which differentiates art from science, is non-repeatable processes to make it a work of art.

mostly science... since technology is the application of scientific knowledge for practical purposes...

Game creation is not the application of scientific knowledge towards any end, neither is most forms of innovation, and creation of things new.  It is an art, because the creation is done by intuition of the designer, and thus is art.  Now, you want to talk about actually producing a game, well that also has some technology, but the core innovation concepts is art, done by visionaries.  The thing about games is that they are not practical purposes, but toys for entertainment.  Entertainment is a very subjective thing, that is hard to pin down, and excessive use of the same patterns leads to boredom, which makes it hard to replicate.  The fact the videogames industry can't be predicted to any certainty what will be the next big hit, and follow standardized methods has resulted in stupid concepts people don't want in the end (Dead Space is now dead, in part because marketing types, using scientific methods determined the game HAD to have multiplayer).

While one can find a bunch of science behind games, the spark of genius that makes something stand out, is art.



It all depends on the definition of art. and i prefer to go with Scott McCloud

“Art, as I see it, is any human activity which doesn’t grow out of either of our species’ two basic instincts: survival and reproduction.”



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

I think Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon is art. It is the only game on the 3DS that I actually used 3D on the whole way through, and just playing in the environments is amazing.
moo