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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The amount of pessimism Wii U is getting is beyond ridiculous

SxyxS on 02 April 2013
gum said:
SxyxS said:
same fanboys bashing vita are now upset that wii U is bashed the same way?

Nintendo Fanboy Tears!Delicious!


What about arguments ? Do you have any?


well-you 've mentioned many of them

and tried to make them look smaller

 

low game support

recycled upscaled full priced games(nsmbU,monster hunter,dragon quest)

low tech-lego city may look better than crackdown but is inferior to infamous2

clumsy tablett

too many buttons for casual gamers

too expensive

no achievements/trophies

looks pretty much like the Wii-casual gamers can't tell the difference between wii and wii u

lousy internet

lost too many core gamers with the past generation



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Lostplanet22 on 02 April 2013
Mnementh said:
Lostplanet22 said:
Talking about WiiU ...in how many weeks will PS4 and Durango outsell the WiiU?


Interesting question, I made a trhead about it: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=158092

I rather meant it as an joke but look forward to the replies in the thread =p.



 

SxyxS on 02 April 2013
Tachikoma said:
gum said:

I’m truly amazed to see how many people on boards like this one are pessimists about the fate of the WiiU. Even more on a topic like this one:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=157842

 

it seems that at least the majority truly believe that the situation of the console can be compared to the Vita. That’s really mind-blowing for me as I certainly have no idea how you can think something like that if you have any understanding about this market. So I’m going to tackle the main used arguments in order to prove that believing the console  is in a really bad position right now is nothing less than totally ridiculous to say the least.

 

“The Wii U doesn’t sell well right now so its concept has to be bad and so the console is necessarily doomed”.

Few things are stupid about that. First there is nothing more important than games to sell a console. Even a console with a very bad concept like the 3DS which main selling point hardware- wise (3D) appeared to be not attractive at all to the mass market managed to become a huge success and destroy its main competitor. So as long as a console will have great games and killer apps it really doesn’t matter if it has a great concept or not. I think the concept of the WiiU is great by the way but even if it wasn’t the case it would still sell tremendously well if it has the right games. The WiiU lakes games right now, that's really its only important problem.

 

“The Wii U isn’t selling well so it is in a similar position as the Vita”

That’s again a totally stupid statement. There are two major differences between WiiU and Vita. When the latter one released its main competitor had an advantage in terms of installed based of few millions copies. Now this advantage is even more important of something like 25 Mns. When publishers decides to release a game on a platform rather than on another one that’s the point they are looking at : which of these platforms have the biggest installed base. That’s the main point to consider in order to predict how well a hardware will do in the future. The WiiU on the other hand has still no competitors so even if it doesn’t sell well those sales still represent an advantage that it will have against PS4 and 720. WiiU has also already a lot of killer apps announced or to expect (Wii Fit, Wii Sports, Mario Kart, Mario 3D, Animal Crossing…) while Vita has none.

 

“WiiU is last gen hardware wise so you have to compare its sales and installed based to the ones of the PS3 and 360”

Stupid argument, sorry, again. It doesn’t matter what is your definition of “next gen”. Whatever it is the WiiU will be a direct competitor for most of its life-time of the next consoles from Sony and MS not of the old “HD twins”. Comparing the sales of the WiiU with those consoles doesn’t matter at all because those will last at best 1 or 2 more years and will be soon forgotten by developers. On the other hand those developers will compare the sales of the WiiU, PS4 and 720 to know which consoles they will have to support in the future.

 

“The Wii U is in the same situation as the gamecube so Nintendo games won’t save it”.

See what I wrote about Vita because this is the same situation in terms of advantage/disadvantage in terms of installed base. The WiiU in fact is the first Nintendo console that will have such an advantage since… the NES. This is a huge difference. Compare to the GC the WiiU will have an advantage of something close to 10 Mns probably instead of the disadvantage GC had of even more than that so the difference between the two situations will be very important. In terms of games Nintendo has a lot of very big IPs that it didn’t have in the GC area: Wii Sports, Wii Fit, New Mario (already released yes but more is coming with Luigi and this game will sell a lot of WiiU again when the hardware will be at a more affordable price for casual gamers), Animal Crossing (which will sell certainly really well thanks to off tv), DKC… And Mario Kart is much stronger than what it was at this time.

 

“When PS4/720 will released noone will care about Wii U”

 The whole gaming history shows us that hardware power is not that important at all and some people still think that this aspect will help the next consoles to sell much better than WiiU? Really? Those consoles will for sure released and a very high price and will have no killer apps as big as a what WiiU should have this fall: Mario Kart probably and Mario 3D, Wii Sports to follow in the coming months after that. How exactly can the PS4 and 720 have any chances to sell better than the WiiU in the last months of 2013 and first half of 2014? PS3 and  360 will also compete against those consoles even more thant they are competing with WiiU right now as most of the games those next consoles will have will be cross-gen.

 

 “The casual gamers abandoned Nintendo and won’t come back”

This is based on nothing than pure pointless speculation. There is no argument at all that proves that many millions of casual gamers aren't going to buy a WiiU just to play Wii Fit, Wii Sports or MK among others. Nintendogs and BT didn’t sell well on 3DS because there are a lot of clones on mobile phones for dirt cheap but there are no competent clones of Wii Fit on any hardware and the only alternatives to Wii Sports are released on other consoles for a similar price. Some people assume that casual got bored about those kind of games and never will buy the next ones but this again is pure speculation based on nothing substantial. If casual gamers were disappointed by WS or WF, their Wii and consoles in general why were they millions to buy WF Plus and WS Resort, but also Just Dance, Zumba Fitness or Kinect?In terms of casual games Nintendo still have by far the best selling franchises so there is no way that Sony and MS will have this market. Even if the WiiU fails to have the hardcore gamers it will still sell really well thanks to that and there is no reason to think otherwise.

 

“Developpers have already decided to not support the WiiU”

Wii U is certainly not their highest priority right now which is logical because the PS3 and 360 are still an active market but that doesn’t mean it will get worse and worse. In fact with the increasing installed base and the fact that the real competitors aren’t released yet it can only become better and better. Most developers won’t have also to choose between WiiU and PS4 or 720 because most “next gen” engines are already compatible with PS3 and 360 and so can be ported to WiiU too:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=502013

 UE4 is more the exception than a strong trend and even this one certainly will be highly scalable even if most of its graphical but gimmicky features will require strong hardwares.

 

And I could go on and on. I think that if you think the WiiU is right now really in a very bad position you are just totally missing the whole picture.

By the way my native language is not English so sorry for the possible grammatical mistakes.

"it seems that at least the majority truly believe that the situation of the console can be compared to the Vita"

So, you're saying pessimism for the WiiU is getting ridiculous but being pessimistic about the Vita in the same breath?, how noble of you.

please don't use logic.you may hurt him with enlightment.



JWeinCom on 02 April 2013

Don't worry. It's just the circle of doom...

Way back when we talked about the doom of the DS. It wasn't selling well and I believe was being outsold by the GBA in some weeks. It had no games, noone cared about touch controls, the graphically superior PSP would crush it, etc. Then the DS took off, so we all conveniently forgot about how almost everyone who didn't work for Nintendo was talking about how doomed it was.

The Wii was also going to suck. Its graphics sucks, its controls were nothing more than a gimmick, and Wii Sports was one of the least exciting launch games of all time. The PS3 was going to crush it (and the 360). But, the Wii was successful so, we moved on.

Now the PS3 was the target. Looking back, it's easy to see that worldwide the PS3 was pretty competitive with the X-Box 360, but we needed a target for our doom so the PS3 was it (not to mention Sony's executives made it an easy target. Show me a picture of a PS3 on store shelves and get 50 bucks!) Eventually, the PS3 got on solid ground. Next up!

The 3DS was surely a doomed from the start. Nobody cares about 3D, and the Vita has a 4 core processor. That's 4 FREAKING CORES! And when the 3DS didn't burst out of the gate like the DS uhhhhhh didn't, everyone was like HAH SEE?! SMARTPHONES HAVE TAKEN OVER AND THE 3DS IS DOOMED! There were even lots of people speculating that a pricecut would only delay the demise of the 3DS by a few months. Whether or not the 3DS will exceed the DS is yet to be seen, but it is staying quite competitive with its predecessor's pace and with its lineup this year, the odds are that the 3DS will keep up till the end of the year.

Sony fans are reveling in the Wii U situation because up until just a few months ago, the Vita was the doomed system of the day. Getting outsold by up to 8:1 in given weeks by the 3DS, things looked grim. We'd probably still be beating up on the poor Vita if not for the Wii U. It's hard to say yet if the Vita will be alright, but a price cut and new software has seemingly set it on the right course in Japan, which is probably the most important region for the device.

Now we come to the Wii U, which had a comparable launch to the PS3 and 360, and then didn't see a software release till last week (which boosted sales quite nicely). If you're sick of it, don't worry too much. It's only a matter of a few months till we see some nice software that will put an end to this, and all the doom threads will only make the "I told you so" when we get May's NPD data all the more entertaining. And rest assured, that by the end of the year we'll be onto mocking the PS4 or X-Box 720, or perhaps both!



pokoko on 02 April 2013
gum said:

The fact that the Vita has a disadvantage in terms of installed base is also a fact and the point that it can only lead to less and less support is pure logic and proven by everything that has always happened on this market.

Looks like both facts and logic have failed you in this instance.  The Vita's software support situation has improved by leaps and bounds.  In Japan, sales for niche games like Demon Gaze and Senran Kagura Shinovi Versus have been very good and a slew of similar games have been announced.  In the west, Ubisoft reported being pleased with the Vita, while many smaller developers have said that their games have performed very well on the system.  Indie games are lining up at a snappy pace, including Hotline Miami, Thomas Was Alone, Lone Survivor, and Frozen Synapse.  The Vita's future is looking far better now than at any time previously.  It haz gamez, both at the moment and on the way.

In fact, we have only to look at the PSP to know that it's quite possible for a console to do well for itself despite a competitor having a firm lead on market share.  I see the same kind of trend happening with the Vita.  Right now, it's biggest problem isn't the 3DS, it's the PSP.  The Vita is slowly proving itself as a "blue ocean" market so I don't think support will be that big of a problem going forward.



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Mnementh on 02 April 2013
JWeinCom said:
Don't worry. It's just the circle of doom...

Way back when we talked about the doom of the DS. It wasn't selling well and I believe was being outsold by the GBA in some weeks. It had no games, noone cared about touch controls, the graphically superior PSP would crush it, etc. Then the DS took off, so we all conveniently forgot about how almost everyone who didn't work for Nintendo was talking about how doomed it was.

The Wii was also going to suck. Its graphics sucks, its controls were nothing more than a gimmick, and Wii Sports was one of the least exciting launch games of all time. The PS3 was going to crush it (and the 360). But, the Wii was successful so, we moved on.

Now the PS3 was the target. Looking back, it's easy to see that worldwide the PS3 was pretty competitive with the X-Box 360, but we needed a target for our doom so the PS3 was it (not to mention Sony's executives made it an easy target. Show me a picture of a PS3 on store shelves and get 50 bucks!) Eventually, the PS3 got on solid ground. Next up!

The 3DS was surely a doomed from the start. Nobody cares about 3D, and the Vita has a 4 core processor. That's 4 FREAKING CORES! And when the 3DS didn't burst out of the gate like the DS uhhhhhh didn't, everyone was like HAH SEE?! SMARTPHONES HAVE TAKEN OVER AND THE 3DS IS DOOMED! There were even lots of people speculating that a pricecut would only delay the demise of the 3DS by a few months. Whether or not the 3DS will exceed the DS is yet to be seen, but it is staying quite competitive with its predecessor's pace and with its lineup this year, the odds are that the 3DS will keep up till the end of the year.

Sony fans are reveling in the Wii U situation because up until just a few months ago, the Vita was the doomed system of the day. Getting outsold by up to 8:1 in given weeks by the 3DS, things looked grim. We'd probably still be beating up on the poor Vita if not for the Wii U. It's hard to say yet if the Vita will be alright, but a price cut and new software has seemingly set it on the right course in Japan, which is probably the most important region for the device.

Now we come to the Wii U, which had a comparable launch to the PS3 and 360, and then didn't see a software release till last week (which boosted sales quite nicely). If you're sick of it, don't worry too much. It's only a matter of a few months till we see some nice software that will put an end to this, and all the doom threads will only make the "I told you so" when we get May's NPD data all the more entertaining. And rest assured, that by the end of the year we'll be onto mocking the PS4 or X-Box 720, or perhaps both!

Great post. I had to quote it.



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Max King of the Wild on 02 April 2013
Mnementh said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Conegamer said:
The pessimism is justified, but to this extent? Certainly not.

Yes, I personally think Wii U will turn things around but not as much as most hope or want. That doesn't change the fact though that the longer Nintendo takes to act to turn it around the more the Wii U will be damaged. I personally think the Wii U will settle at 45mil but can see myself reducing that number if Nintendo is expecting things to turn around just from their original strategy. Basically, the here and now and way things are looking up the Wii U will turn into a Game Cube until Nintendo reacts (which they have shown no signs of yet) and until then I think it's justified.

Going after the numbers in this thread - http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=157842 - the median of what people expect from WiiU is something in the area of 45-50 million lifetime. You say yourself 45 million. So what most people think and your own perception are pretty much in line.

I've maintained 45m before the Wii U launched. Those sales are based off of revised predictions in response to the dreadful sales



Majora on 02 April 2013

Why does everyone compare Vita and WiiU when the latter has been out for quite a lot less time?! I'm not getting why nobody mentions this...?



menx64 on 03 April 2013

Some people are really dellusional thinking this is only going to happen to the WiiU (sales wise)... lets wait until PS4 and the nextbox are out to see how they fare.

The problem with Nintendo is the constant delay of their big games, I for one hope they have a lot of partnerships such as the one with Atlus for the FE/SMT game, that would allow them to create a better first party ecosystem.



Menx64

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NNid: Menx064

Max King of the Wild on 03 April 2013
menx64 said:
Some people are really dellusional thinking this is only going to happen to the WiiU (sales wise)... lets wait until PS4 and the nextbox are out to see how they fare.

The problem with Nintendo is the constant delay of their big games, I for one hope they have a lot of partnerships such as the one with Atlus for the FE/SMT game, that would allow them to create a better first party ecosystem.

some people are really delusional thinking this is going to happen to the other consoles. People better hope not or else Nintendo wont have a company  soon since the game industry would be a dead one.