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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The amount of pessimism Wii U is getting is beyond ridiculous

gum said:

Features aren't that important like the example of 3DS show us. Wii didn't sell well because it had motion gaming but because it had Wii Sports which uses motion gaming in a very fun way. WiiU will have the next Wii Sports and PS4/ 720 won't have any more unique features leading to unique fun games for casuals. Hardcore gamers also don't care that much about graphics as the PS1, PS2, even NES, DS, 3DS... have shown us. Games is what matters, features or graphics on the other hand are certainly not a high selling argument as pretty much every generation of consoles and handhelds have shown. I again don't understand how people can think otherwise because there is no proof of this aspects to be that important in terms of hardware success.

"Based on nothing? There was massive hype for the Wii, EVERYONE and their mother knew about it. Go ask a casual if they even know about the Wii U - odds are they don't."

The main casual IPs aren't released yet and the console is too expensive to really aim at casual gamers right now. Measuring the hype of a product from a specific target is also something very difficult and I don't see any strong data nor evidences that show that these kind of gamers won't buy the console when games and prices will be right for them.

Wii sold well because of motion controls. How you can even argue against this is beyond me. That's the whole reason people - casuals and hardcore alike wanted it, because it was different and so easy to use a monkey could do it. Wii Sports didn't revolutionize gaming, it was actually quite terrible all things considered. It was the motion controls that made that game famous.

"Casual IPs aren't released yet" - ZZZzz, nothing is released yet. That's part of the problem. Not enough games!

The casual gamer has no need for Wii U when they can continue to buy casual games for Wii...or their android/iphone/tablet device.



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gum said:

I’m truly amazed to see how many people on boards like this one are pessimists about the fate of the WiiU. Even more on a topic like this one:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=157842

 

it seems that at least the majority truly believe that the situation of the console can be compared to the Vita. That’s really mind-blowing for me as I certainly have no idea how you can think something like that if you have any understanding about this market. So I’m going to tackle the main used arguments in order to prove that believing the console  is in a really bad position right now is nothing less than totally ridiculous to say the least.

 

“The Wii U doesn’t sell well right now so its concept has to be bad and so the console is necessarily doomed”.

Few things are stupid about that. First there is nothing more important than games to sell a console. Even a console with a very bad concept like the 3DS which main selling point hardware- wise (3D) appeared to be not attractive at all to the mass market managed to become a huge success and destroy its main competitor. So as long as a console will have great games and killer apps it really doesn’t matter if it has a great concept or not. I think the concept of the WiiU is great by the way but even if it wasn’t the case it would still sell tremendously well if it has the right games. The WiiU lakes games right now, that's really its only important problem.

 

I agree, they shouldn't have released the console without a strong piece of software comparable to Wii Sports (and bundle it with every console, not just the premium one). Also, the network problems, downloading and installing large firmware update that takes up over 3gb of space of the tiny internal storage, and other kinks made evident the launch was rushed to make the holidays.


“The Wii U isn’t selling well so it is in a similar position as the Vita”

That’s again a totally stupid statement. There are two major differences between WiiU and Vita. When the latter one released its main competitor had an advantage in terms of installed based of few millions copies. Now this advantage is even more important of something like 25 Mns. When publishers decides to release a game on a platform rather than on another one that’s the point they are looking at : which of these platforms have the biggest installed base. That’s the main point to consider in order to predict how well a hardware will do in the future. The WiiU on the other hand has still no competitors so even if it doesn’t sell well those sales still represent an advantage that it will have against PS4 and 720. WiiU has also already a lot of killer apps announced or to expect (Wii Fit, Wii Sports, Mario Kart, Mario 3D, Animal Crossing…) while Vita has none.

That so-called advantage you speak of will be negligable by the time the next-gen consoles arrive, the fact is there are MORE titles being developed for the 720 and PS4. The Wii U has been overlooked even before it launched. Also, Vita has killer Apps announced, if you don't reckon they are that's your mistake : Killzone Mercenary, Tearaway, Soul Sacrifice (coming this month to USA/Europe) are all BIG titles, and I'm sure at least one or two big ones will be announced at E3.

“WiiU is last gen hardware wise so you have to compare its sales and installed based to the ones of the PS3 and 360”

Stupid argument, sorry, again. It doesn’t matter what is your definition of “next gen”. Whatever it is the WiiU will be a direct competitor for most of its life-time of the next consoles from Sony and MS not of the old “HD twins”. Comparing the sales of the WiiU with those consoles doesn’t matter at all because those will last at best 1 or 2 more years and will be soon forgotten by developers. On the other hand those developers will compare the sales of the WiiU, PS4 and 720 to know which consoles they will have to support in the future.

 I'm of the opinion Nintendo will phase out the Wii U before Sony stops manufacturing the PS3. But that's just how I see it.

“The Wii U is in the same situation as the gamecube so Nintendo games won’t save it”.

See what I wrote about Vita because this is the same situation in terms of advantage/disadvantage in terms of installed base. The WiiU in fact is the first Nintendo console that will have such an advantage since… the NES. This is a huge difference. Compare to the GC the WiiU will have an advantage of something close to 10 Mns probably instead of the disadvantage GC had of even more than that so the difference between the two situations will be very important. In terms of games Nintendo has a lot of very big IPs that it didn’t have in the GC area: Wii Sports, Wii Fit, New Mario (already released yes but more is coming with Luigi and this game will sell a lot of WiiU again when the hardware will be at a more affordable price for casual gamers), Animal Crossing (which will sell certainly really well thanks to off tv), DKC… And Mario Kart is much stronger than what it was at this time.

 I don't think Wii U will have as poor 1st party support from Nintendo as the GCN did. Not if they make a better Super Mario than Galaxy, a better Smash than Brawl and a better Zelda than Skyward Sword.

“When PS4/720 will released noone will care about Wii U”

 The whole gaming history shows us that hardware power is not that important at all and some people still think that this aspect will help the next consoles to sell much better than WiiU? Really? Those consoles will for sure released and a very high price and will have no killer apps as big as a what WiiU should have this fall: Mario Kart probably and Mario 3D, Wii Sports to follow in the coming months after that. How exactly can the PS4 and 720 have any chances to sell better than the WiiU in the last months of 2013 and first half of 2014? PS3 and  360 will also compete against those consoles even more thant they are competing with WiiU right now as most of the games those next consoles will have will be cross-gen.

 The PS4 and 720 only need a COD title to get them started. They're also getting Assassin's Creed IV, Battlefield 4, and many other games at launch. If that's nothing to you, OK...

 “The casual gamers abandoned Nintendo and won’t come back”

This is based on nothing than pure pointless speculation. There is no argument at all that proves that many millions of casual gamers aren't going to buy a WiiU just to play Wii Fit, Wii Sports or MK among others. Nintendogs and BT didn’t sell well on 3DS because there are a lot of clones on mobile phones for dirt cheap but there are no competent clones of Wii Fit on any hardware and the only alternatives to Wii Sports are released on other consoles for a similar price. Some people assume that casual got bored about those kind of games and never will buy the next ones but this again is pure speculation based on nothing substantial. If casual gamers were disappointed by WS or WF, their Wii and consoles in general why were they millions to buy WF Plus and WS Resort, but also Just Dance, Zumba Fitness or Kinect?In terms of casual games Nintendo still have by far the best selling franchises so there is no way that Sony and MS will have this market. Even if the WiiU fails to have the hardcore gamers it will still sell really well thanks to that and there is no reason to think otherwise.

 The casual market doesn't buy $300-$350 consoles in massive numbers, apparently. 

“Developpers have already decided to not support the WiiU”

Wii U is certainly not their highest priority right now which is logical because the PS3 and 360 are still an active market but that doesn’t mean it will get worse and worse. In fact with the increasing installed base and the fact that the real competitors aren’t released yet it can only become better and better. Most developers won’t have also to choose between WiiU and PS4 or 720 because most “next gen” engines are already compatible with PS3 and 360 and so can be ported to WiiU too:

That's pretty much the truth. They counted out the Wii U even before it existed.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=502013

 UE4 is more the exception than a strong trend and even this one certainly will be highly scalable even if most of its graphical but gimmicky features will require strong hardwares.

 

And I could go on and on. I think that if you think the WiiU is right now really in a very bad position you are just totally missing the whole picture.

By the way my native language is not English so sorry for the possible grammatical mistakes.





dsgrue3 said:
 

"Casual IPs aren't released yet" - ZZZzz, nothing is released yet. That's part of the problem. Not enough games!

Yes and that's really the whole problem. A gameplay feature like motion gaming is nothing without the right game to use it that's all I wanted to say. If casual gamers want to play the next WS or WF they certainly couldn't play that on their mobiles or tablets and Sony and MS don't seem to have anything substantially innovative to make these people buy a PS4/720 over a console that will be less expansive and will have the biggest casual IPs.



gum said:
Tachikoma said:
 

The only difference is you want the WiiU to succeed because you like it, you're willing to argue a defence that "just because initial sales and support is bad doesnt mean it wont pick up", yet don't give the Vita the benefit of that same argument despite the obvious implications interactivity with the PS4 upon release being able to bolster the platform - just because it's selling a lot less than the 3DS doesn't mean it's selling the worst, that accolade would go to the Pandora, GP2X. GP2X Wizz, and so on.

It's all about scope, and you ruin your argument by supporting the WiiU with arguments that could just as easilly support the Vita, but refuse to accept that very clear and simple fact.


The reasons why I'm not optimistic about the Vita are exactly the same ones that make me optimistic about the WiiU. Vita has a disadvantage in terms of installed base  in comparison to its main competitor while the WiiU has an advantage. The WiiU has huge killer apps already announced while the Vita has none. So I don't see how my opinion could be more consitent than that.

Wiiu has a tiny install base compared to it's direct competitors, PS3 and 360

Vita has a tiny install base compared to it's direct competitor, 3DS

Wii u has killer apps? you mean the handful of 1st party titles and the next xenoblade?, What does that say about the vita thats expecting killzone mercenary, dust 514:neocom, soul sacrifice, FFXHD, Binding of isaac: Rebirth, Lone Survivr, Terraria this year (the latter three (sort of, BOI) selling INSANELY well over Steam, and easilly translatable to vita), and many others?, as well as the potential for some very WiiU-like functionality hand in hand with the PS4?

Don't be so short sighted, both have just as much potential as each other, you're just being a hypocrit.



same fanboys bashing vita are now upset that wii U is bashed the same way?

Nintendo Fanboy Tears!Delicious!

~Mod Edit~

This post has been moderated.

-Smeags



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gum said:
The point that they didn't realeased that much software at launch could very well have more to do with the fact that:

1/ They know they don't need to hurry as they have a one-year head start. Something that many obviously don't get but which is certainly true.

2/ They wanted to give the third parties ports some room to sell decently

3/ They prefer to built the momentum of the console steadily starting from march in order to be at their best when the next consoles launch

1/ That doesn't make much sense.  What is the point of a headstart if you hang about the starting gate?

2/ I've seen this before and it might or might not be true.  Either way, it's a bad, bad idea.  You don't let your console languish and then say, "oh, hey, we did it to give the third parties a chance."  No.  What you do is to force them to put their games on your console.  How do you accomplish that?  You build up an installed base at all costs.  You make it so you cannot be ignored.  All Nintendo has done so far is to give publishers and developers a reason to start working on other projects, as they don't consider the Wii U installed base to be significant.

3/  Again, awful idea.  It negates that headstart we've been talking about.  Release your big guns before the other guys when you have zero competition.  Both the PS4 and 720 are going to sell out at launch!  They will, absolutely.  There is no gain from going head-to-head with them.  Get your shots in before the other guys can respond.

Also, I agree with Tachikoma.  You come across as somewhat hypocritical when you doom the Vita in the same breath that you ask people to stop dooming the Wii U.



SxyxS said:
same fanboys bashing vita are now upset that wii U is bashed the same way?

Nintendo Fanboy Tears!Delicious!


What about arguments ? Do you have any?



SxyxS said:
same fanboys bashing vita are now upset that wii U is bashed the same way?

Nintendo Fanboy Tears!Delicious!


Pretty fluffing much.



There's no smoke without fire and the OP for me and I suspect most others hasn't worked as a good fire blanket. That in itself says more than enough.



pokoko said:

1/ That doesn't make much sense.  What is the point of a headstart if you hang about the starting gate?

2/ I've seen this before and it might or might not be true.  Either way, it's a bad, bad idea.  You don't let your console languish and then say, "oh, hey, we did it to give the third parties a chance."  No.  What you do is to force them to put their games on your console.  How do you accomplish that?  You build up an installed base at all costs.  You make it so you cannot be ignored.  All Nintendo has done so far is to give publishers and developers a reason to start working on other projects, as they don't consider the Wii U installed base to be significant.

3/  Again, awful idea.  It negates that headstart we've been talking about.  Release your big guns before the other guys when you have zero competition.  Both the PS4 and 720 are going to sell out at launch!  They will, absolutely.  There is no gain from going head-to-head with them.  Get your shots in before the other guys can respond.

Also, I agree with Tachikoma.  You come across as somewhat hypocritical when you doom the Vita in the same breath that you ask people to stop dooming the Wii U.


It would have been better if they used their headstart better in order to have a biggest advantage against the next consoles. Still we are discussing about how much of an advantage they will have against the competition. And again this won't be negligible if PS4 and 720 don't sell significantly better than PS3 and 360 did.

Again I have no problem with people saying a console is doomed, this of course can certainly happen and stating it can't based on no argument is certainly the way a fanboy that don't want to face the truth would react. The problem I have is about the fact than none of the arguments stating the Wii U is in a bad position right now stand imo and I have tried to prove that with arguments. You can agree with those arguments or not but you can't say I haven't given some.