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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Put a fork in the Wii U, it is done. [Sensible discussion only, no flaming]

thekitchensink on 22 March 2013
Captain_Tom said:
thekitchensink said:
You're right. Nintendo's new system is tanking horribly. It's only somewhat more powerful than Sony's previous-generation effort, has almost no good games and a 'gimmick' that supposedly adds nothing to gameplay, and is going to be demolished by an upcoming competitor with a stronger lineup that is orders of magnitude more powerful than it. This new system also has the benefit of maintaining the online accounts people have become so attached to.

Yes, the 3DS is so screwed when the Vita comes out.


-The 3DS has a cool gimmick while the Wii U's clearly hasn't connected with its base as well.

-The 3DS IS stronger than the PSP.

-The 3DS WAS screwed, but they reacted effectively and SONY fumbled around with the Memory Cards.  SONY seems to have learned, and the Wii U's priice cuts will be countered by PS360 cuts.


I'll respond to this one since you actually took the time to counter my arguments rather than just effectively say 'haha wrong'.

-The 3DS has a cool gimmick while the Wii U's clearly hasn't connected with its base as well.

I'll give you that one.  They certainly haven't shown off the benefits of the GamePad well enough in their advertising, and not enoughy games use it well enough yet.

-The 3DS IS stronger than the PSP.

And?  The Wii U IS stronger than the 360 and PS3, just not exponentially.

-The 3DS WAS screwed, but they reacted effectively and SONY fumbled around with the Memory Cards.  SONY seems to have learned, and the Wii U's priice cuts will be countered by PS360 cuts.

Again, that's quite fair to say.  Vita's failing has as much to do with Sony's missteps as Nintendo's ability to right its own ship, and Sony/Microsoft will certainly be learning from the portable war.  I'm not saying the Wii U is going to win the next generation or come flying back in a blaze of glory.  But what I'm saying is, this race is really only just beginning.  We only just got the first details on one of the competitors, we know literally nothing official about the other, and we have almost no idea what Nintendo has planned to counter their competitors' launches.  For example, I think that if they were to launch Smash Brothers, alongside a decent marketing campaign, right before another system came out, that could have the potential to make them fairly competitive.

 

Again, I'm no psychic.  The system is certainly not doing well, and it may indeed crash and burn, for all we know.  But any statement that says 'stick a fork in it, it's done' after four months is simply incorrect.



Could I trouble you for some maple syrup to go with the plate of roffles you just served up?

Tag, courtesy of fkusumot: "Why do most of the PS3 fanboys have avatars that looks totally pissed?"
"Ok, girl's trapped in the elevator, and the power's off.  I swear, if a zombie comes around the next corner..."
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Mr Khan on 22 March 2013
Captain_Tom said:
Mr Khan said:

No, you misunderstand me. The core gameplay formulas that, between them, are the reasons that any and all of us are here at all, have an enduring capacity that no competitor has yet to replicate. Sometimes Nintendo ignores them (though they seem to be getting their ducks in a row on Zelda), but hopefully Nintendo being thrown into "desperation mode" means that we'll get an even more robust response from Wii U than we did for 3DS.

Only Nintendo has the franchises and gameplay techniques that built this industry, and they can bring them back.

I would propose that SONY has done just as much to build up this industry as Nintendo.  The PS1 and PS2 basically brought gaming to adults en mass.  Without them it would be all kiddy games and odd JRPG's.  

Xbox modernized online gaming, so that was important too, but not as important as making gaming something anyone can do.

Sony mostly rode on the expansion of console gaming into Europe and the natural aging of gamers who were brought in by Nintendo.

Microsoft has mostly leeched off Sony's market.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mummelmann on 22 March 2013

You can't phrase an OP like that with a thread title like this one holds. It doesn't add up.



tbone51 on 22 March 2013

LMAO, really? Why do people write in the title [no flaming]? Every time i see a thread that has that in its title, it has the most trolling/flaming lol



eFKac on 22 March 2013
JoeTheBro said:
Captain_Tom said:

 

-PSN and LIVE have a loyal fanbase built up that want to keep their accounts.  They will not switch to the Wii U.

People really don't care about that crap. Consumers are not loyal just because on one system they have trophies.

[Just because you own both, does not mean most do.  You are the minority]

-It is effectively the same strength as current consoles with a little extra ram.

It's fairly more powerful. The architecture is fresh so we won't see a leap but it will continue to grow and look better. Similarly to the PS3 and 360 looking better today than at launch.

-The touchpad is not enough to justify its price premium, and the PS4 will have Vita/720 will have tablets.

It's a premium over current gen, not next gen. PS4 and XBOX: GOLD will both cost more. Also tablets will not replicate the pad since they lack buttons. Vita will not replicate the pad since it lacks sales. Only advantage is off screen play.

-No compelling third party games you can't get elseware

So? Third party exclusives are no different than first party exclusives. As long as Nintendo can pump out games this is a non issue.

 

Third Parties will not support it well because:

-Since no version has enough storage there will effectively little to no DLC,and no games can be installed.  This means longer load times and its extra power is completely bottlenecked by the lack of storage.

DLC is slowly going to be ported. Only problem is it will lack exclusive DLC. Also games don't need to be installed because the disc read speed is 22.5 MB/s. The PS3 had a disc read speed of 9 MB/s.

-Large updates are not feasable.  BF3's total update space is around 7 GB before DLC.

Most Wii U owners will have an external drive plugged in.

-The Next Gen consoles will be easy to program for like PC versions of games, and the PS360 have already been completely figured out.  There is no reason to figure out another IBM CPU for an install base of a few million, when an install base of 150 Mil is sitting around.

At launch the Wii U instal base will be 7 million while the other two will be at 0. Devs will be able to make a fair amount of money supporting it, at least for the time being.

A price cut and games will not change this because:

-If it is cut to $200 when the PS4 comes out, PS360 will be $100-$200 and have a 7+ year library of great games.

PS360 won't be getting all the great new games. Also the people who buy a system near launch are not the same market as current PS360 buyers.

-The PS4 will be about 10 times stronger and far more capaple.  This is where the hardcore will go.

By that logic, hardcore will go to PC.

-Great games will sell some consoles but remember I said 15-40 million.  I doubt it will be as bad as the dreamcast.

15-40 million is still better than putting a fork in it. Honestly I expect them to pull a three pillars strategy again if sales stay low. In 3 to 4 years they could launch a HD 4K system that's way more powerful than the PS4 and come up with a better gimmick. At the same time they'd keep supporting the Wii U, just like they did with GBA and DS.

 




What happened to you, like seriously? :D



So it is happening...PS4 preorder.

Greatness Awaits!

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Trunkin on 22 March 2013
Max King of the Wild said:
JoeTheBro said:
Captain_Tom said:

 


15-40 million

That's not too bad for a Nintendo system.

NES: 62

SNES: 49

64: 33

GameCube: 22


I don't think it's bad for the system either but it's definatly not what people expected coming off of the Wiil... Just look at what everyone was saying aboutthe Ps3 during this generation "Lost the biggest user base yadda yadda yadda." I'd also would like to point out the gaming as grown awhole bunch since NES and SNES so getting less than those isn't a good thing either. (I think it will settle around SNES)

I think the main reason the PS3 gets so much flak is because it lost two generations and over a decade of Sony dominance to M$, who could hardly even have be considered a true competitor in the PS2 gen. The Wii's success, on the other hand, was primarily due to their Blue Ocean strategy, which is really only good for one gen.



NeilStrauss on 22 March 2013
Captain_Tom said:

 


This whole time I have been saying "It's too early to tell if the Wii U is screwed."  However last night I finally just came to the conclusion that there is no way this system will do well.  I am saying it will sell 15-40 million.  Here's why:

 

People will not buy it because:

-PSN and LIVE have a loyal fanbase built up that want to keep their accounts.  They will not switch to the Wii U.

[Just because you own both, does not mean most do.  You are the minority]

-It is effectively the same strength as current consoles with a little extra ram.

-The touchpad is not enough to justify its price premium, and the PS4 will have Vita/720 will have tablets.

-No compelling third party games you can't get elseware

 

Third Parties will not support it well because:

-Since no version has enough storage there will effectively little to no DLC,and no games can be installed.  This means longer load times and its extra power is completely bottlenecked by the lack of storage.

-Large updates are not feasable.  BF3's total update space is around 7 GB before DLC.  

-The Next Gen consoles will be easy to program for like PC versions of games, and the PS360 have already been completely figured out.  There is no reason to figure out another IBM CPU for an install base of a few million, when an install base of 150 Mil is sitting around.

 

A price cut and games will not change this because:

-If it is cut to $200 when the PS4 comes out, PS360 will be $100-$200 and have a 7+ year library of great games.

-The PS4 will be about 10 times stronger and far more capaple.  This is where the hardcore will go.

-Great games will sell some consoles but remember I said 15-40 million.  I doubt it will be as bad as the dreamcast.

 

Put a fork in it, it's done.  If you want to debate this, fine.  But I ask people to not change the subject to vita or 3DS.  Those are a whole other beast, and changing the subject to them basically tells me you have nothing to say.

 

40 million units is a tremendous success if you have profit on each one, also that means 200+ million software, wich is also an humongous success.

Remember man, it is not about being number one, it is about making a lot with very little effort.



anamme on 22 March 2013

I would wait and see what Mario Kart/Smash Bros/Zelda/Animal Crossing do for the system before making these kinds of rash pronouncements...

Your bias is palpable.



Captain_Tom on 22 March 2013
JoeTheBro said:
Captain_Tom said:

 

-PSN and LIVE have a loyal fanbase built up that want to keep their accounts.  They will not switch to the Wii U.

People really don't care about that crap. Consumers are not loyal just because on one system they have trophies.

Omg they do.  All my friends are not switching beause of this.  You live in a dream world or you are missing out big (Probably both).

[Just because you own both, does not mean most do.  You are the minority]

-It is effectively the same strength as current consoles with a little extra ram.

It's fairly more powerful. The architecture is fresh so we won't see a leap but it will continue to grow and look better. Similarly to the PS3 and 360 looking better today than at launch.

I know PC specs like the back of my hand.  It is roughly the same.

-The touchpad is not enough to justify its price premium, and the PS4 will have Vita/720 will have tablets.

It's a premium over current gen, not next gen. PS4 and XBOX: GOLD will both cost more. Also tablets will not replicate the pad since they lack buttons. Vita will not replicate the pad since it lacks sales. Only advantage is off screen play.

That's the problem.  It ISN'T a premium when it has no HDD, Trophies, or a standardized online system.

-No compelling third party games you can't get elseware

So? Third party exclusives are no different than first party exclusives. As long as Nintendo can pump out games this is a non issue.

They clearly cannot.  It is just impossible to out pace the massive studios SONY has built up + the dozens of great third party games released every year,

Third Parties will not support it well because:

-Since no version has enough storage there will effectively little to no DLC,and no games can be installed.  This means longer load times and its extra power is completely bottlenecked by the lack of storage.

DLC is slowly going to be ported. Only problem is it will lack exclusive DLC. Also games don't need to be installed because the disc read speed is 22.5 MB/s. The PS3 had a disc read speed of 9 MB/s.

LOL an HDD has a read speed of 50-100 MB/s.  DLC will be rare because NO ONE CAN DOWNLOAD IT!

-Large updates are not feasable.  BF3's total update space is around 7 GB before DLC.

Most Wii U owners will have an external drive plugged in.

Those are bottlenecked by USB 2.0.  They usually read around the same speed as the Wii U discs.  Also not everyone has one, so they won't bother, and you are glad you have to spend more?  Ok...

-The Next Gen consoles will be easy to program for like PC versions of games, and the PS360 have already been completely figured out.  There is no reason to figure out another IBM CPU for an install base of a few million, when an install base of 150 Mil is sitting around.

At launch the Wii U instal base will be 7 million while the other two will be at 0. Devs will be able to make a fair amount of money supporting it, at least for the time being.

I know and that is why games will actually be put on the PS360 while the Wii U will be a pariah.  Also say what you think, I know that BF4, COD, and many other games are already announced to not be on the Wii U but is on the PS4.  Only Ubisoft is supporting it, and they always do. 

A price cut and games will not change this because:

-If it is cut to $200 when the PS4 comes out, PS360 will be $100-$200 and have a 7+ year library of great games.

PS360 won't be getting all the great new games. Also the people who buy a system near launch are not the same market as current PS360 buyers.  

They won't?  TLOU and Beyond Two Souls is still slated for this year and all third party games besides the next COD (Rumored) will be on the current gen.

-The PS4 will be about 10 times stronger and far more capaple.  This is where the hardcore will go.

By that logic, hardcore will go to PC.

They are in huge numbers.  Look it up.

-Great games will sell some consoles but remember I said 15-40 million.  I doubt it will be as bad as the dreamcast.

15-40 million is still better than putting a fork in it. Honestly I expect them to pull a three pillars strategy again if sales stay low. In 3 to 4 years they could launch a HD 4K system that's way more powerful than the PS4 and come up with a better gimmick. At the same time they'd keep supporting the Wii U, just like they did with GBA and DS.

 

Yes in 2-3 yeats they will be FORCED to make a new console.  That's good? Ok...







zippy on 22 March 2013

Nirvana_Nut85 said:
Can someone please answer me this.....When the PS4/720 sells 1/2 - 2/3 of what the WiiU has in the same time frame, will they be doomed as well??? Just wondering.


zippy
Well said, people think the PS4 is going to be a resounding success. Lessons will never be learned.