Michael-5 said: ToraTiger said: Michael-5 said: ??????? - At bolded Isn't most Asian music more similar to 90's Pop music in Western Society? I don't think it's really influenced that much by western culture, I rarely hear a Japanese Rock song. However there is intermixing, and in general asians get more influence from Westerners then Vice versa, but that's starting to change. K-Pop and J-Pop are becoming bigger and bigger in Western Culture, I mean how big was Gangnam Style a couple months back? Shit off topic....Plastic surgery. Yes, Western Influence is greater in Asia then Asian influence is here. If the asian influence were strong here, people would not be as obese as they are now LOL. You are kinda right. Double Eye lid surgery is encouraged, most asian girls get it, and big eyes are considered sexy. Plus asians do die their hair. However to be fair, I would argue that the influence isn't from Western Culture to Eastern Culture. I don't think anyone, except for Americans, try to look more American. I think the bulk of the influence comes from central and northern Europe. Most people to artificially change their appearance die their hair blonde and get blue contacts. Asians and Americans alike, we're all trying to look swedish or scandenavian. Oh, that was an error.  XD my bad.    You knew what I met, I assume.   As for Asian music.  It varies depending on country.  Japense prefer Rock music, and classical music, while chinese seem to enjoy R&B a lot. As for Koreans, their music is full of hip hop, and more modern pop and dance music.  It's VERY similar to American music. (Just listen to Gangnam style, it sounds a lot like a L.M.A.O song or something ) Most of their songs contain at least serval english lines, using freuquently used words in American culture, like "swag", "haters", "fly" and several others.  You can youtube a lot of Kpop artists plaugerizing American music, just to add. As for Westerners starting to be influenced by Asians, I think that's a long time away before we can even consider it at all.  I mean I'm pretty sure the only reason Americans like K-Pop is because how similar it is. Imo.  Seeing as Korean is by far the most popular type of asian music in the west, and all the popular bands/singers in Korea that made it big in American are all techno/hip-hop artists with few exceptions.   For the obese thing, I think that's more of a social thing than a cultural one.   Back on the topic of surgery, well they're definietly trying to look white, that's for sure.  Be it a German, English or  sweddish.  But I think it's safe to assume American, since they've already imitated so much from it already.  Hell, even their fashion sense is disturbingly similar.   I don't mean to come off as racist or prejudice, (because really, I'm not) or even a hater or anything.   About K-Pop, Question is did music like Gangnam style exist in Korea before LMFAO, or was PSY influenced by Americans? From what i've heard of K-Pop, their music has been like that for a while, and I think Americans know about Gangnam style because of how similar it is to American Pop. Essentially I think neither strongly influences the other, they just both coincidently sound similar, and because of it you will see a lot more intermixing in the future. As for the Obese thing, what do you mean social instead of cultural? I'm curious because I look at it as a cultural thing, and lately (especially in places like California) you're seeing a trend where more and more people eat oriental food because it's healthier and will keep you skinnier. This is American dining (and Canadian, and European too) mimicing Korean. If you go to Korea, you will rarely see McDonalds, and people doesn't really eat American there like we eat Korean/Japanese/Chinese. I feel a similar situation is happening with Oriental food as happened with Italian food in the past. In Italy you will have trouble finding American diners, but in the USA Pizza Pizza, and other pizza/pasta chains have exploded. Many of them have become Americanized (Italians wouldn't recognize pizza pizza as pizza, but some high salt fast cooked American interpretation of their food). I can't argue fashion, I don't know what goes on there. As for Plastic Surgury (the topic in the op), I see a difference. How many Americans are naturally blonde? Isn't USA the mixing pot of the states? What's the definitive American look? Blonde Hair and Blue eyes for sure isn't it, that's swedish, and I think there are more Americans then asians per captia dying their hair blond. Asians aren't really dying their hair brown, maybe red, but not brown. However a lot of American girls straighten their hair to mimic asian hair styles. They don't do it specifically to mimic the asians maybe, but straight hair is only natural in asians since their hair is denser, and thus heavier and straight. However at the same time Double Eyelid Surgury is very common among asian girls, where Cateye Surgury is a pretty small phenomena with Americans. So it turms of plastic surgury, more Asians are mimicing white people (and in this case Americans too), but in terms of culture, more Americans are imitating Asians (Diets, Straight Hair, Black Hair, etc) So I'll agree with you, a high percentage of asians are trying to look white, specifically swedish, but I won't agree with you that they are trying to look American overall. If you go to Korea, or Japan, muscles on women are frowned upon, and aren't athletic body types considered hot in USA? Europe tends to favor slim girls over athletic as well. So if I were to be specific, Asians are imitating Northern Europeaners. Americans on the other hand, they aren't imitating anyone, they are just trying to become more shocking, and this is the new American look. Orange Skin, Breast Implants, Calf Implants (to look more muscular), Fat injections to the lips, blond hair, blue eyes, tatoos (I wouldn't associate any other country as strongly with tatoos), and a lot of make up on girls. This is very different from the typical European clean look, where most women are just naturally beautiful (except the english) because of good diets and high maintenance (Not in a make-up way, in the way where they takes care of themselves, cook home cooked meals and in general live healthier). P.S. Please tell me why you think Obesity is a Social thing and not a cultural. Isn't the Fast Food buisness a heavy part of American culture (like it or not)? Aren't Burgers and pop a culturally American meal? Aren't Steakhouses predominantly integrated with American diets?

 

Korean music became westernized relatively recently, probably around 2005, don't know for sure, just look at 'Kpop' on wikipedia for that.   Also, I can't see how you think the similarities are just a 'coincidence', when they also dance the same, dress the same, and even speak 'American english' in the marjority of their songs, while also passing the same 'swag' image into it.   Lastly, If you look at a Korean top 50 music chart, you'd see tons of American singers on it, while on the other hand, if an Asian charts in America, it's news worthy, and only a handful have been able to accomplish this feat.  If someone can view this as a coincidence, that is beyond me.

I do agree with you that Chinese, Japanese and Korean foods are popular in america, though I don't think it's because people view it as healthy.  That stuff can hardly be considered healthy, it's full with sodium and carbs, and is probably the reason Asians are so short and usually lack muscle mass.   On the same hand, while Asian food maybe popular, so is Mexican, Italian,  and French food.  All the ones I named are far more popular than Korean food in America.  And on the other hand, I read somewhere that McDonalds is the most widespread food chain in the world.  And I'm sure their are a considerable amount in Korea, as in Japan.   So I think it's about even in the culinary space, being fair.  

Back on the topic of surgery, the thing is in America surgery is met with negative reception for the most part (Look at previous posts in this thread) and many people see the 'jersey' look,  a small minority mind you, as ridiculous or just weird.  As opposed to Korea where double-eyelids, V-jaws, and western noses are seen as almost universal beauty, and is so encouraged.  These are things that most of them aren't going to be born with anyway, so basically, in Korea few women are born beautiful.   They only achieve this after they acquire these very western standards of beauty through surgery, and I think that's just sad. 

How many white Americans have naturally blonde hair?  I'd say about a quarter, though many more dye it that color.    While on that topic, I feel like I need to correct you when you said you don't see a lot of brown hair in Asia and that Americans mimic Asian hair styles more.  That's not the case.  In Korea, brown makes up a vast majority of hair colors, while black, the color that most everyone is born with is not.   Many also have curly hair.  While in America, black hair isn't something that is a near impossibility to acquire, and at the same time way less Americans dye their hair black than compared to asians dying their hair brown.  I do concur that Americans do straighten their hair like Asians, but I don't see that as copying, neither do I see Asians curling it as such.    

When I said I see obesity more as a social problem, is because in America, various factors contribute to people becoming fat.  It could be that they spend a lot of time out and so they have fastfood, or they over eat for joy, or for celebration, or just plain over-eating.  Though I think  it could also be considered a cultural problem since it's so widespread.  Either works.

 

 

Honestly, I don't think it's a fair arguement to say that Asians influence Americans as much as the other way around.   One thing that comes to mind is to think about how seriously big Smartphones and tablets are in Korean culture.  Something that was invented, and popularized in the US.    I mean just look at how Samsung, a korean company is constantly being sued by Apple for copy-right infringement.   

Having said all that, I said that to say that America's influence is strong all over the world, but it's particularly strong in South Korea.   And I agree with you that Americans do try to be shocking, or outrageous.  Though I think this is why America's influences are so strong in so many places.  It's more 'creative', though that is not always a good thing.

So to summerize some of this, I think it's pretty insane to think that in terms of culture more Americans are mimicing Asians than vise versa, because of;

1.  American hairstyles are just as popular in Asian as vise versa if not more.  Curling and straightening is about equal

2.  Mobile technology, a major part of Korean culture, is something born and raised in USA. 

3.  Koreans like American music far more than Americans like Korean music, plus it's safe to assume Korean music is inspired by A-pop anyway.

4.  Korean food is hardly widespread here,  and their are at least 200 McDonald diners in Korea. 

Finally,  my analogy is this, if Koreans have already borrowed so many things from the USA, isn't it safe to assume that they're trying to look white to look American, and not European?  

 

I'd love cosmetic surgery. I genuinely believe I'd be a hell of a lot happier and confident about my appearance if I had it. Some things just really bother me about how I look. Maybe it's vanity or maybe I'm just bored haha

Majora said: I'd love cosmetic surgery. I genuinely believe I'd be a hell of a lot happier and confident about my appearance if I had it. Some things just really bother me about how I look. Maybe it's vanity or maybe I'm just bored haha

Thank you!!!, someone who understands , and you are not even female. Soooooo much respect to your open mindedness OMG!

I like big boobs.

Quite honestly as a social libertarian I cannot say one should judge, or call it wrong. A majority of people tattoo themselves which is something that is just as much body modification on that is mainstream everywhere.

ToraTiger said: Michael-5 said: ToraTiger said: Michael-5 said: ??????? - At bolded Isn't most Asian music more similar to 90's Pop music in Western Society? I don't think it's really influenced that much by western culture, I rarely hear a Japanese Rock song. However there is intermixing, and in general asians get more influence from Westerners then Vice versa, but that's starting to change. K-Pop and J-Pop are becoming bigger and bigger in Western Culture, I mean how big was Gangnam Style a couple months back? Shit off topic....Plastic surgery. Yes, Western Influence is greater in Asia then Asian influence is here. If the asian influence were strong here, people would not be as obese as they are now LOL. You are kinda right. Double Eye lid surgery is encouraged, most asian girls get it, and big eyes are considered sexy. Plus asians do die their hair. However to be fair, I would argue that the influence isn't from Western Culture to Eastern Culture. I don't think anyone, except for Americans, try to look more American. I think the bulk of the influence comes from central and northern Europe. Most people to artificially change their appearance die their hair blonde and get blue contacts. Asians and Americans alike, we're all trying to look swedish or scandenavian. Oh, that was an error.  XD my bad.    You knew what I met, I assume.   As for Asian music.  It varies depending on country.  Japense prefer Rock music, and classical music, while chinese seem to enjoy R&B a lot. As for Koreans, their music is full of hip hop, and more modern pop and dance music.  It's VERY similar to American music. (Just listen to Gangnam style, it sounds a lot like a L.M.A.O song or something ) Most of their songs contain at least serval english lines, using freuquently used words in American culture, like "swag", "haters", "fly" and several others.  You can youtube a lot of Kpop artists plaugerizing American music, just to add. As for Westerners starting to be influenced by Asians, I think that's a long time away before we can even consider it at all.  I mean I'm pretty sure the only reason Americans like K-Pop is because how similar it is. Imo.  Seeing as Korean is by far the most popular type of asian music in the west, and all the popular bands/singers in Korea that made it big in American are all techno/hip-hop artists with few exceptions.   For the obese thing, I think that's more of a social thing than a cultural one.   Back on the topic of surgery, well they're definietly trying to look white, that's for sure.  Be it a German, English or  sweddish.  But I think it's safe to assume American, since they've already imitated so much from it already.  Hell, even their fashion sense is disturbingly similar.   I don't mean to come off as racist or prejudice, (because really, I'm not) or even a hater or anything.   About K-Pop, Question is did music like Gangnam style exist in Korea before LMFAO, or was PSY influenced by Americans? From what i've heard of K-Pop, their music has been like that for a while, and I think Americans know about Gangnam style because of how similar it is to American Pop. Essentially I think neither strongly influences the other, they just both coincidently sound similar, and because of it you will see a lot more intermixing in the future. As for the Obese thing, what do you mean social instead of cultural? I'm curious because I look at it as a cultural thing, and lately (especially in places like California) you're seeing a trend where more and more people eat oriental food because it's healthier and will keep you skinnier. This is American dining (and Canadian, and European too) mimicing Korean. If you go to Korea, you will rarely see McDonalds, and people doesn't really eat American there like we eat Korean/Japanese/Chinese. I feel a similar situation is happening with Oriental food as happened with Italian food in the past. In Italy you will have trouble finding American diners, but in the USA Pizza Pizza, and other pizza/pasta chains have exploded. Many of them have become Americanized (Italians wouldn't recognize pizza pizza as pizza, but some high salt fast cooked American interpretation of their food). I can't argue fashion, I don't know what goes on there. As for Plastic Surgury (the topic in the op), I see a difference. How many Americans are naturally blonde? Isn't USA the mixing pot of the states? What's the definitive American look? Blonde Hair and Blue eyes for sure isn't it, that's swedish, and I think there are more Americans then asians per captia dying their hair blond. Asians aren't really dying their hair brown, maybe red, but not brown. However a lot of American girls straighten their hair to mimic asian hair styles. They don't do it specifically to mimic the asians maybe, but straight hair is only natural in asians since their hair is denser, and thus heavier and straight. However at the same time Double Eyelid Surgury is very common among asian girls, where Cateye Surgury is a pretty small phenomena with Americans. So it turms of plastic surgury, more Asians are mimicing white people (and in this case Americans too), but in terms of culture, more Americans are imitating Asians (Diets, Straight Hair, Black Hair, etc) So I'll agree with you, a high percentage of asians are trying to look white, specifically swedish, but I won't agree with you that they are trying to look American overall. If you go to Korea, or Japan, muscles on women are frowned upon, and aren't athletic body types considered hot in USA? Europe tends to favor slim girls over athletic as well. So if I were to be specific, Asians are imitating Northern Europeaners. Americans on the other hand, they aren't imitating anyone, they are just trying to become more shocking, and this is the new American look. Orange Skin, Breast Implants, Calf Implants (to look more muscular), Fat injections to the lips, blond hair, blue eyes, tatoos (I wouldn't associate any other country as strongly with tatoos), and a lot of make up on girls. This is very different from the typical European clean look, where most women are just naturally beautiful (except the english) because of good diets and high maintenance (Not in a make-up way, in the way where they takes care of themselves, cook home cooked meals and in general live healthier). P.S. Please tell me why you think Obesity is a Social thing and not a cultural. Isn't the Fast Food buisness a heavy part of American culture (like it or not)? Aren't Burgers and pop a culturally American meal? Aren't Steakhouses predominantly integrated with American diets?   Korean music became westernized relatively recently, probably around 2005, don't know for sure, just look at 'Kpop' on wikipedia for that.   Also, I can't see how you think the similarities are just a 'coincidence', when they also dance the same, dress the same, and even speak 'American english' in the marjority of their songs, while also passing the same 'swag' image into it.   Lastly, If you look at a Korean top 50 music chart, you'd see tons of American singers on it, while on the other hand, if an Asian charts in America, it's news worthy, and only a handful have been able to accomplish this feat.  If someone can view this as a coincidence, that is beyond me. I do agree with you that Chinese, Japanese and Korean foods are popular in america, though I don't think it's because people view it as healthy.  That stuff can hardly be considered healthy, it's full with sodium and carbs, and is probably the reason Asians are so short and usually lack muscle mass.   On the same hand, while Asian food maybe popular, so is Mexican, Italian,  and French food.  All the ones I named are far more popular than Korean food in America.  And on the other hand, I read somewhere that McDonalds is the most widespread food chain in the world.  And I'm sure their are a considerable amount in Korea, as in Japan.   So I think it's about even in the culinary space, being fair.   Back on the topic of surgery, the thing is in America surgery is met with negative reception for the most part (Look at previous posts in this thread) and many people see the 'jersey' look,  a small minority mind you, as ridiculous or just weird.  As opposed to Korea where double-eyelids, V-jaws, and western noses are seen as almost universal beauty, and is so encouraged.  These are things that most of them aren't going to be born with anyway, so basically, in Korea few women are born beautiful.   They only achieve this after they acquire these very western standards of beauty through surgery, and I think that's just sad.  How many white Americans have naturally blonde hair?  I'd say about a quarter, though many more dye it that color.    While on that topic, I feel like I need to correct you when you said you don't see a lot of brown hair in Asia and that Americans mimic Asian hair styles more.  That's not the case.  In Korea, brown makes up a vast majority of hair colors, while black, the color that most everyone is born with is not.   Many also have curly hair.  While in America, black hair isn't something that is a near impossibility to acquire, and at the same time way less Americans dye their hair black than compared to asians dying their hair brown.  I do concur that Americans do straighten their hair like Asians, but I don't see that as copying, neither do I see Asians curling it as such.     When I said I see obesity more as a social problem, is because in America, various factors contribute to people becoming fat.  It could be that they spend a lot of time out and so they have fastfood, or they over eat for joy, or for celebration, or just plain over-eating.  Though I think  it could also be considered a cultural problem since it's so widespread.  Either works.     Honestly, I don't think it's a fair arguement to say that Asians influence Americans as much as the other way around.   One thing that comes to mind is to think about how seriously big Smartphones and tablets are in Korean culture.  Something that was invented, and popularized in the US.    I mean just look at how Samsung, a korean company is constantly being sued by Apple for copy-right infringement.    Having said all that, I said that to say that America's influence is strong all over the world, but it's particularly strong in South Korea.   And I agree with you that Americans do try to be shocking, or outrageous.  Though I think this is why America's influences are so strong in so many places.  It's more 'creative', though that is not always a good thing. So to summerize some of this, I think it's pretty insane to think that in terms of culture more Americans are mimicing Asians than vise versa, because of; 1.  American hairstyles are just as popular in Asian as vise versa if not more.  Curling and straightening is about equal 2.  Mobile technology, a major part of Korean culture, is something born and raised in USA.  3.  Koreans like American music far more than Americans like Korean music, plus it's safe to assume Korean music is inspired by A-pop anyway. 4.  Korean food is hardly widespread here,  and their are at least 200 McDonald diners in Korea.  Finally,  my analogy is this, if Koreans have already borrowed so many things from the USA, isn't it safe to assume that they're trying to look white to look American, and not European?

Sorry for the late response. I got banned because I called Mugen a dick when he was acting like a dick. Worth it, but he's still being super arrogent and annoying, and wanting to butt rape me or something... lol

Coincidence - I dunno, I'm dating a Korean girl who moved from Korea in.... 2002. Oh well, yea, that's pre 2005. I know they use English in a lot of Korean songs, but most younger Korean people know english fairly well. It's not the official second language in Korea or Japan, but (especially in Japan) because a lot of media/products get exported (e.g. anime, games, etc) a little bit of english is often thrown into songs, and sometimes the primary title of a product is in english.

I don't think Korean/Japanese Pop stars dress anything at all like American/European Pop Stars. Nooo way. I also don't see too much of a resemblance in music. You don't see people who dress like Niki Menage or Christina Agulara (I know I spelt them wrong) in Asia.

Food - Asian food in USA is salty and full of carbs, but real oriental food is very different. This is the same as pizza in USA and Itally. American corporations add tons of salt to food to encourage drink sales because drinks are where most companies make a profit.

It's really difficult to find a true Korean/Japanese restaurant in USA/Canada. I live in Toronto, and I only know of 1 truely authentic Japanese restaurant (Guu), and 2 authentic Korean restaurants (Local). Most have horribly altered, westernized menus. Did you know that Chow Mein was invented by a Chinese American and is not actually a chinese dish, but an American one?

In Japan and Korea, there are very very few western chains. Did you know that Wal-Mart pulled out of South Korea because of a lack of sales? McDonalds survived, but even then it's really really uncommon in Korea, and fairly uncommon in Japan. Plus in Korea and Japan, the menu is heavily Easternized (They have a shrimp burger!).

As for Asians being short, if their food was malnourishing them, they wouldn't be skinny, and their average life expectancy wouldn't be higher then that of a European/American, but it is.

Plastic Surgery - Are V-Jaw's Caucasian Traits? My girlfriend and a lot of other asian girls I know have V-Jaws and they didn't have surgery. I actually think in general asian people (excluding chinese) more often tend to have oval shaped heads. I think the ethnicity which specifically doesn't have V-Jaws are Native Americans/Asians, and Central/South Americans.

Also what do you mean by western noses? I'm Eastern European, and all of us have gigantic noses, and I don't think it's considered beautiful. Most people I know usually make fun of people with big noses, and I believe in Eastern and Northern European people, nose reduction surgery is common. Can we argue that more asians get nose surgery then caucasians? I dunno, I didn't know that was a common asian surgery until now

As for the Jersey Shore look, while you and I might think it's dumb......I think there are a lot of....I'm going to go with inbred (I know they aren't, but it feels right), Americans/Canadians who think orange skin and fake boobs are hot. Sadly I think the fraction of people who find this hot is a high one here in North America.

Hair - I wouldn't say that Asians dying their hair brown mimics caucasians. When asian people get exposed to lots of sunlight, their hair turns brown (in the same way most caucasians hair will turn more blonde). I think, judging from the people I know, that that brown is to immitate a look which shows that. As for straightening/curling (perms are common in Asia) hair, I think it is an influence of the others culture, but it's equal in both directions.

As for Blond hair....you're spot on, I wikipedia's it. However Native Australians have the highest frequency of blonde hair, with a rate greater then 90%. When you think about it, a lot of Australians are Blonde. So......this just proves, we're trying to be Aussies?

Obesity What you described seems cultural. If you're so busy that you only have time for fast food, or your culture encourages over-eating and large portion meals, I think those are cultural factors, not social. Japanese people, and German people are known to be hard workers, and they don't encounter obesity problems in anywhere nearly as high numbers. So why do Americans have 10x more obese people then Japan/S.Korea and 3x as many as Germany? It's because fast food chains in the USA are really messed up, they add tons of salt to make you thirsty, and tons of sugar/fat because it's cheaper to produce. Fast Food places in Europe and Asia are typically a lot healthier, and the standards are much higher. It's culturally acceptable to eat crap in USA and arguably Canada/UK/Australia too, but in mainland Europe and Developed Asia, those standards are different.

Factoid. McDonalds used to make burgers from "100% Beef" correct? 100% Beef is the company name, the beef content in their burgers is about 20%. The rest is corn starch and high fructose corn syrup (basically sugar, which gets converted into fat).

Influence - Apple gets sued by Samsung just as often as the other way around. Also, while tablets were popularized by Americans, cell phones were popularized by the Japanese. Which is bigger?

1. I agree

2. I disagree. While Americans invented cell phones, the Japanese were the first to create an automated cellunar network, and it was only until. Also the evolution of cell phones has roots in all parts of the world. Americans made the 1G network, Europeans the 2G and 4G, and Japanese the 3G. Also while American pioneered cell phone technology, Nokia and Samsung took over the market. Apple is 3rd. Also Europeans created the first tablets, not Apple. - I had to look most of this stuff up, good debate.

3. I can agree with you here, but only because I dunno. J/K-Pop seems very different then A-Pop, but A-Pop did come first (I think)

4. There are 200 McDonalds Diners in a country with a population of 50 million? That's 4 restaurants per 1 million people. The population of Manhattan is 1.6 million people, with that McDonalds distribution, that would be about 6 McDonalds restaurants in the entire city....it's not that wide spread.

As for Asian food in North America, it depends where you live. In Toronto, Vancouver, Los Angeles, and Manhattan, there are more "asian" restaurants then anything else. However I bet in Dallas, Denver, and Los Vegas, that's probably not the case. Still most city's have a "China Town", but in Korea they do not have a "little USA."

Last point, most of the things you named which are "American" aren't. Blondes are most commonly Australian, Brown Hair is not done to immitate Caucasians, Cell Phones boomed because of the Europeans/Japanese (while invented by the Americans), Tablets were invented by Europeans, and aren't that popular in asian, Caucasians probably do more nose reduction surgery's then Asians do the opposite, there are more asian places in North America then there are American places in Asia, American culture isn't followed outside the USA much (people don't eat as much as Americans, and the Jersey Shore/Nikki Menage look isn't really seen outside the USA).

Also, one thing to add, tablets are only mosreatly popular in asian (it's not like here), but Nintendo dominates with it's handhelds everywhere, and Samsung is the largest cell phone company now, followed by Nokia. America's influence doesn't extend as far outside USA as you might think.

Also, since were talking about products, what's the best selling car of all time and largest car manufacter? Toyota Corolla and Toyota, Japanese, thank you (and again Europeans invented the car). Who makes most TV? Samsung, and the make TV's for many other companies like Sony and Toshiba. Product wise, I think Americans are immitating the Japanese more then vice versa (cars are looking more asian nowdays).

This is getting quite expansive..

i view it as a form of self-mutilation except they are getting someone else to do it for them. not only that but its a form of deception since they arent alowing you to see them for who they are meant to be but who they wish to be. only people that have some form of deformity, injury, or disease that disfigures the person or prevents them from functioning properly should be aloud to get it in my opinion. like if a person got in a car wreck and their face was damaged, or a child born with a cleft lip. well thats my 2 cents

Michael-5 said: ToraTiger said: Michael-5 said: ToraTiger said: Michael-5 said: ??????? - At bolded Isn't most Asian music more similar to 90's Pop music in Western Society? I don't think it's really influenced that much by western culture, I rarely hear a Japanese Rock song. However there is intermixing, and in general asians get more influence from Westerners then Vice versa, but that's starting to change. K-Pop and J-Pop are becoming bigger and bigger in Western Culture, I mean how big was Gangnam Style a couple months back? Shit off topic....Plastic surgery. Yes, Western Influence is greater in Asia then Asian influence is here. If the asian influence were strong here, people would not be as obese as they are now LOL. You are kinda right. Double Eye lid surgery is encouraged, most asian girls get it, and big eyes are considered sexy. Plus asians do die their hair. However to be fair, I would argue that the influence isn't from Western Culture to Eastern Culture. I don't think anyone, except for Americans, try to look more American. I think the bulk of the influence comes from central and northern Europe. Most people to artificially change their appearance die their hair blonde and get blue contacts. Asians and Americans alike, we're all trying to look swedish or scandenavian. Oh, that was an error.  XD my bad.    You knew what I met, I assume.   As for Asian music.  It varies depending on country.  Japense prefer Rock music, and classical music, while chinese seem to enjoy R&B a lot. As for Koreans, their music is full of hip hop, and more modern pop and dance music.  It's VERY similar to American music. (Just listen to Gangnam style, it sounds a lot like a L.M.A.O song or something ) Most of their songs contain at least serval english lines, using freuquently used words in American culture, like "swag", "haters", "fly" and several others.  You can youtube a lot of Kpop artists plaugerizing American music, just to add. As for Westerners starting to be influenced by Asians, I think that's a long time away before we can even consider it at all.  I mean I'm pretty sure the only reason Americans like K-Pop is because how similar it is. Imo.  Seeing as Korean is by far the most popular type of asian music in the west, and all the popular bands/singers in Korea that made it big in American are all techno/hip-hop artists with few exceptions.   For the obese thing, I think that's more of a social thing than a cultural one.   Back on the topic of surgery, well they're definietly trying to look white, that's for sure.  Be it a German, English or  sweddish.  But I think it's safe to assume American, since they've already imitated so much from it already.  Hell, even their fashion sense is disturbingly similar.   I don't mean to come off as racist or prejudice, (because really, I'm not) or even a hater or anything.   About K-Pop, Question is did music like Gangnam style exist in Korea before LMFAO, or was PSY influenced by Americans? From what i've heard of K-Pop, their music has been like that for a while, and I think Americans know about Gangnam style because of how similar it is to American Pop. Essentially I think neither strongly influences the other, they just both coincidently sound similar, and because of it you will see a lot more intermixing in the future. As for the Obese thing, what do you mean social instead of cultural? I'm curious because I look at it as a cultural thing, and lately (especially in places like California) you're seeing a trend where more and more people eat oriental food because it's healthier and will keep you skinnier. This is American dining (and Canadian, and European too) mimicing Korean. If you go to Korea, you will rarely see McDonalds, and people doesn't really eat American there like we eat Korean/Japanese/Chinese. I feel a similar situation is happening with Oriental food as happened with Italian food in the past. In Italy you will have trouble finding American diners, but in the USA Pizza Pizza, and other pizza/pasta chains have exploded. Many of them have become Americanized (Italians wouldn't recognize pizza pizza as pizza, but some high salt fast cooked American interpretation of their food). I can't argue fashion, I don't know what goes on there. As for Plastic Surgury (the topic in the op), I see a difference. How many Americans are naturally blonde? Isn't USA the mixing pot of the states? What's the definitive American look? Blonde Hair and Blue eyes for sure isn't it, that's swedish, and I think there are more Americans then asians per captia dying their hair blond. Asians aren't really dying their hair brown, maybe red, but not brown. However a lot of American girls straighten their hair to mimic asian hair styles. They don't do it specifically to mimic the asians maybe, but straight hair is only natural in asians since their hair is denser, and thus heavier and straight. However at the same time Double Eyelid Surgury is very common among asian girls, where Cateye Surgury is a pretty small phenomena with Americans. So it turms of plastic surgury, more Asians are mimicing white people (and in this case Americans too), but in terms of culture, more Americans are imitating Asians (Diets, Straight Hair, Black Hair, etc) So I'll agree with you, a high percentage of asians are trying to look white, specifically swedish, but I won't agree with you that they are trying to look American overall. If you go to Korea, or Japan, muscles on women are frowned upon, and aren't athletic body types considered hot in USA? Europe tends to favor slim girls over athletic as well. So if I were to be specific, Asians are imitating Northern Europeaners. Americans on the other hand, they aren't imitating anyone, they are just trying to become more shocking, and this is the new American look. Orange Skin, Breast Implants, Calf Implants (to look more muscular), Fat injections to the lips, blond hair, blue eyes, tatoos (I wouldn't associate any other country as strongly with tatoos), and a lot of make up on girls. This is very different from the typical European clean look, where most women are just naturally beautiful (except the english) because of good diets and high maintenance (Not in a make-up way, in the way where they takes care of themselves, cook home cooked meals and in general live healthier). P.S. Please tell me why you think Obesity is a Social thing and not a cultural. Isn't the Fast Food buisness a heavy part of American culture (like it or not)? Aren't Burgers and pop a culturally American meal? Aren't Steakhouses predominantly integrated with American diets?   Korean music became westernized relatively recently, probably around 2005, don't know for sure, just look at 'Kpop' on wikipedia for that.   Also, I can't see how you think the similarities are just a 'coincidence', when they also dance the same, dress the same, and even speak 'American english' in the marjority of their songs, while also passing the same 'swag' image into it.   Lastly, If you look at a Korean top 50 music chart, you'd see tons of American singers on it, while on the other hand, if an Asian charts in America, it's news worthy, and only a handful have been able to accomplish this feat.  If someone can view this as a coincidence, that is beyond me. I do agree with you that Chinese, Japanese and Korean foods are popular in america, though I don't think it's because people view it as healthy.  That stuff can hardly be considered healthy, it's full with sodium and carbs, and is probably the reason Asians are so short and usually lack muscle mass.   On the same hand, while Asian food maybe popular, so is Mexican, Italian,  and French food.  All the ones I named are far more popular than Korean food in America.  And on the other hand, I read somewhere that McDonalds is the most widespread food chain in the world.  And I'm sure their are a considerable amount in Korea, as in Japan.   So I think it's about even in the culinary space, being fair.   Back on the topic of surgery, the thing is in America surgery is met with negative reception for the most part (Look at previous posts in this thread) and many people see the 'jersey' look,  a small minority mind you, as ridiculous or just weird.  As opposed to Korea where double-eyelids, V-jaws, and western noses are seen as almost universal beauty, and is so encouraged.  These are things that most of them aren't going to be born with anyway, so basically, in Korea few women are born beautiful.   They only achieve this after they acquire these very western standards of beauty through surgery, and I think that's just sad.  How many white Americans have naturally blonde hair?  I'd say about a quarter, though many more dye it that color.    While on that topic, I feel like I need to correct you when you said you don't see a lot of brown hair in Asia and that Americans mimic Asian hair styles more.  That's not the case.  In Korea, brown makes up a vast majority of hair colors, while black, the color that most everyone is born with is not.   Many also have curly hair.  While in America, black hair isn't something that is a near impossibility to acquire, and at the same time way less Americans dye their hair black than compared to asians dying their hair brown.  I do concur that Americans do straighten their hair like Asians, but I don't see that as copying, neither do I see Asians curling it as such.     When I said I see obesity more as a social problem, is because in America, various factors contribute to people becoming fat.  It could be that they spend a lot of time out and so they have fastfood, or they over eat for joy, or for celebration, or just plain over-eating.  Though I think  it could also be considered a cultural problem since it's so widespread.  Either works.     Honestly, I don't think it's a fair arguement to say that Asians influence Americans as much as the other way around.   One thing that comes to mind is to think about how seriously big Smartphones and tablets are in Korean culture.  Something that was invented, and popularized in the US.    I mean just look at how Samsung, a korean company is constantly being sued by Apple for copy-right infringement.    Having said all that, I said that to say that America's influence is strong all over the world, but it's particularly strong in South Korea.   And I agree with you that Americans do try to be shocking, or outrageous.  Though I think this is why America's influences are so strong in so many places.  It's more 'creative', though that is not always a good thing. So to summerize some of this, I think it's pretty insane to think that in terms of culture more Americans are mimicing Asians than vise versa, because of; 1.  American hairstyles are just as popular in Asian as vise versa if not more.  Curling and straightening is about equal 2.  Mobile technology, a major part of Korean culture, is something born and raised in USA.  3.  Koreans like American music far more than Americans like Korean music, plus it's safe to assume Korean music is inspired by A-pop anyway. 4.  Korean food is hardly widespread here,  and their are at least 200 McDonald diners in Korea.  Finally,  my analogy is this, if Koreans have already borrowed so many things from the USA, isn't it safe to assume that they're trying to look white to look American, and not European?     Sorry for the late response. I got banned because I called Mugen a dick when he was acting like a dick. Worth it, but he's still being super arrogent and annoying, and wanting to butt rape me or something... lol Coincidence - I dunno, I'm dating a Korean girl who moved from Korea in.... 2002. Oh well, yea, that's pre 2005. I know they use English in a lot of Korean songs, but most younger Korean people know english fairly well. It's not the official second language in Korea or Japan, but (especially in Japan) because a lot of media/products get exported (e.g. anime, games, etc) a little bit of English is often thrown into songs, and sometimes the primary title of a product is in english. I don't think Korean/Japanese Pop stars dress anything at all like American/European Pop Stars. Nooo way. I also don't see too much of a resemblance in music. You don't see people who dress like Niki Menage or Christina Agulara (I know I spelt them wrong) in Asia. Food - Asian food in USA is salty and full of carbs, but real oriental food is very different. This is the same as pizza in USA and Itally. American corporations add tons of salt to food to encourage drink sales because drinks are where most companies make a profit. It's really difficult to find a true Korean/Japanese restaurant in USA/Canada. I live in Toronto, and I only know of 1 truely authentic Japanese restaurant (Guu), and 2 authentic Korean restaurants (Local). Most have horribly altered, westernized menus. Did you know that Chow Mein was invented by a Chinese American and is not actually a chinese dish, but an American one? In Japan and Korea, there are very very few western chains. Did you know that Wal-Mart pulled out of South Korea because of a lack of sales? McDonalds survived, but even then it's really really uncommon in Korea, and fairly uncommon in Japan. Plus in Korea and Japan, the menu is heavily Easternized (They have a shrimp burger!). As for Asians being short, if their food was malnourishing them, they wouldn't be skinny, and their average life expectancy wouldn't be higher then that of a European/American, but it is. Plastic Surgery - Are V-Jaw's Caucasian Traits? My girlfriend and a lot of other asian girls I know have V-Jaws and they didn't have surgery. I actually think in general asian people (excluding chinese) more often tend to have oval shaped heads. I think the ethnicity which specifically doesn't have V-Jaws are Native Americans/Asians, and Central/South Americans. Also what do you mean by western noses? I'm Eastern European, and all of us have gigantic noses, and I don't think it's considered beautiful. Most people I know usually make fun of people with big noses, and I believe in Eastern and Northern European people, nose reduction surgery is common. Can we argue that more asians get nose surgery then caucasians? I dunno, I didn't know that was a common asian surgery until now As for the Jersey Shore look, while you and I might think it's dumb......I think there are a lot of....I'm going to go with inbred (I know they aren't, but it feels right), Americans/Canadians who think orange skin and fake boobs are hot. Sadly I think the fraction of people who find this hot is a high one here in North America. Hair - I wouldn't say that Asians dying their hair brown mimics caucasians. When asian people get exposed to lots of sunlight, their hair turns brown (in the same way most caucasians hair will turn more blonde). I think, judging from the people I know, that that brown is to immitate a look which shows that. As for straightening/curling (perms are common in Asia) hair, I think it is an influence of the others culture, but it's equal in both directions. As for Blond hair....you're spot on, I wikipedia's it. However Native Australians have the highest frequency of blonde hair, with a rate greater then 90%. When you think about it, a lot of Australians are Blonde. So......this just proves, we're trying to be Aussies? Obesity What you described seems cultural. If you're so busy that you only have time for fast food, or your culture encourages over-eating and large portion meals, I think those are cultural factors, not social. Japanese people, and German people are known to be hard workers, and they don't encounter obesity problems in anywhere nearly as high numbers. So why do Americans have 10x more obese people then Japan/S.Korea and 3x as many as Germany? It's because fast food chains in the USA are really messed up, they add tons of salt to make you thirsty, and tons of sugar/fat because it's cheaper to produce. Fast Food places in Europe and Asia are typically a lot healthier, and the standards are much higher. It's culturally acceptable to eat crap in USA and arguably Canada/UK/Australia too, but in mainland Europe and Developed Asia, those standards are different. Factoid. McDonalds used to make burgers from "100% Beef" correct? 100% Beef is the company name, the beef content in their burgers is about 20%. The rest is corn starch and high fructose corn syrup (basically sugar, which gets converted into fat). Influence - Apple gets sued by Samsung just as often as the other way around. Also, while tablets were popularized by Americans, cell phones were popularized by the Japanese. Which is bigger? 1. I agree 2. I disagree. While Americans invented cell phones, the Japanese were the first to create an automated cellunar network, and it was only until. Also the evolution of cell phones has roots in all parts of the world. Americans made the 1G network, Europeans the 2G and 4G, and Japanese the 3G. Also while American pioneered cell phone technology, Nokia and Samsung took over the market. Apple is 3rd. Also Europeans created the first tablets, not Apple. - I had to look most of this stuff up, good debate. 3. I can agree with you here, but only because I dunno. J/K-Pop seems very different then A-Pop, but A-Pop did come first (I think) 4. There are 200 McDonalds Diners in a country with a population of 50 million? That's 4 restaurants per 1 million people. The population of Manhattan is 1.6 million people, with that McDonalds distribution, that would be about 6 McDonalds restaurants in the entire city....it's not that wide spread. As for Asian food in North America, it depends where you live. In Toronto, Vancouver, Los Angeles, and Manhattan, there are more "asian" restaurants then anything else. However I bet in Dallas, Denver, and Los Vegas, that's probably not the case. Still most city's have a "China Town", but in Korea they do not have a "little USA." Last point, most of the things you named which are "American" aren't. Blondes are most commonly Australian, Brown Hair is not done to immitate Caucasians, Cell Phones boomed because of the Europeans/Japanese (while invented by the Americans), Tablets were invented by Europeans, and aren't that popular in asian, Caucasians probably do more nose reduction surgery's then Asians do the opposite, there are more asian places in North America then there are American places in Asia, American culture isn't followed outside the USA much (people don't eat as much as Americans, and the Jersey Shore/Nikki Menage look isn't really seen outside the USA). Also, one thing to add, tablets are only mosreatly popular in asian (it's not like here), but Nintendo dominates with it's handhelds everywhere, and Samsung is the largest cell phone company now, followed by Nokia. America's influence doesn't extend as far outside USA as you might think. Also, since were talking about products, what's the best selling car of all time and largest car manufacturer? Toyota Corolla and Toyota, Japanese, thank you (and again Europeans invented the car). Who makes most TV? Samsung, and the make TV's for many other companies like Sony and Toshiba. Product wise, I think Americans are imitating the Japanese more then vice versa (cars are looking more Asian nowdays). This is getting quite expansive..

Lol I didn't know you could get banned on here for calling someone a name. I had to have said that several times lol. Well, back on topic, I understand that a lot of things get imported so that requires a certain level of delicacy to insure that the product is met with the same impact as its original. But that being said, a lot is also imported from Asia, like China. Most everything is made in China and a lot of electronics are made and produced in Japan and Korea. On the fashion, if you look at the boy bands, they all wear hoodies, street shoes, jump-suits, sunglasses, ect. Like you said, not all of the female idols dress too much like Americans, but you'd still see someone wearing a overly eccentric dress like Katy Perry, or something completely obscure like Lady Gaga. I've stated this in my previous posts' because I read somewhere that American fashion lines are booming in South East Asia and I'm sure most Americans don't even know what Asian fashion looks like aside from Yukatas and Kimonos. A good amount of Koreans may know English, but I highly doubt most people there, even younger ones knows the meanings to all the english words that are used in the songs. Even if that were the case, alot of Koreans know Japanese and vise versa, but neither really borrow those words to use in their songs. That's like saying, just because alot of Americans know Spanish, then you'll automatically see Spanish references in its media. If the music doesn't sound similar to you, look at these. And these are some of the most popular artists in Korea, btw (G.Dragon, SNSD, B2ST, ect.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6b6dtwJI8I (20 seconds) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSIS_syd69s (1 minute.) On the food, dude I don't know. I've been to Indonesia once before, and I'd say that stuff was worse for you than fast-food. The reason they weren't blobs there with the stuff they were eating was because they probably eat about half as much as most Americans. I know that's not Korea, but it's still technically Asia. I do agree that the food is extra unhealthy in USA, because..well Americans love unhealthy food. Though I still don't think it's healthy even in Asia. Rice is super popular there, and that stuff is full with carbs. It's just not as fattening, and that's what most American's worry about. Any organic diet would be better suited for someone trying to be healthy. There is a massive market for McDonalds in Japan and Japan's a small Island. It's not exactly as popular in Korea, though it is definitely rising. Check out this article. http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2011/01/mcdonalds-korea-to-double-number-of.html And Wal-Mart isn't really a heavy hitter in metropolitan areas, so I wouldn't expect it to be a success in places like Korea or Japan. As for them being stunted by their diets, I think that's true. It's not exactly them being malnourished. Look, people need HGH to grow, either muscles or bone density. When you eat a lot of carbohydrates it inhibits your body's ability to secrete HGH. HGH also causes stress on the body (Growing pains ect) Also, There diets don't have as much fat in it, so I guess they substitute carbs for fat when it comes to energy. As for them living longer, that could be exercise, (a lot of Japaneses ride there bikes to places instead of bus) they don't eat as unhealthy, so they don't develop ailments like diabetes or increased-cholesterol or hypertension. Also, just to add, Asians have been known to grow a lot taller when they come to the west. Maybe fatter, but also taller. And yes, I guess obesity could also be a cultural problem, since america also has free food basically for anyone under 18. And their eatery like Micky Ds and there conpatriant don't offer a lot of healthy choices for cheap. Though I think over-eating or depression is a problem with the society. Surgery. This is the article I used in the opening of this Thread. http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/19/korea.beauty/index.html Well, maybe V-jaws aren't exactly a complete rarity in Asia, but it is far more common in most other places. As for the nose thing, Asian's usually have low noses with open nostrils. White people have longer noses but their nostrils aren't usually as open. So when Asians change their noses through surgery they lengthen it, and close the nostrils a bit. It's not as popular as the double eye-lids but it's still common. Yeah, there's definitetly a following for the Jersey Look, but I think most people think it's ridiculous. Also, this shouldn't even be considered a majority, isn't us hating it enough of a reason for it to never be the majority? I mean, if I were in Korea right now I'd probably think surgery on girls is so hot. Not for my own measure, just because what society would have fed me. Hair. I'm aware that sunlight can bleach hair, but I don't think it can bleach it that light. I have black hair, and am in the hot sun a lot but my hair never got to the point where it was as light as the Koreans I know. I think bleach brown is really to light to be considered brown. And if this were the case, I would assume that all Asians have brown hair like the Koreans, but that isn't the case. It just seems so natural there. When you see ⅝ of your idols with that hair color, it would make many people want to dye it the same. I'm not exactly saying all of them are doing it to mimick whites, I was just pointing out that a massive percent of them have that color. I don't think straightening/curling is an influence most of the time. Seeing as some women curl their hair to make it easier to manage or straighten it sometimes just to try it. This just seems too natural to me to be considered a influence. LOL at the Austrailians having that much blonde hair. The thing is, in America, beauty is far more subjective than it is in Asia. In America, you'll see actresses that all look different that are considered beautiful in there own way. Megan Fox, Taylor Swift, Jessica Alba, Angolena Jolie ect. While in Korea, their definition of beauty seems very definitive. You'll see a group of Korean girls, and about half of them have the exact same style. Same hair, eyes ect. Which makes me think they're trying to look like something. Influence. Apple is only sued by Samsung in Korea, where Samsung has a larger presence and it's easier for them to take legal matters. Apple on the other hand has sued Samsung three times, twice in America and once in Europe. I wasn't trying to be bleak in that post, I could have added a lot of other things, like how Koreans use Youtube to upload there videos, (Like Gagnam style) USA websites are very popular in Korea, e.g Facebook, Twitter, ect, more than there own sites and how they seem to enjoy MMOs a lot. Hell, I could've said they love computers and the internet in general, but I don't think that is fair to the premise of this debate. I Said smartphones, something that was solely popularized by the Iphone, but now is being dominated by Samsung. 2. As for the cellphone thing, this kinda helps my argument in a way. Seeing as all these things were made in America and have become more popular in other parts of the world and other countries are now the top producers of these such products. Though I disagree on Japanese popularizing cellphones. This isn't the same case as with Video games, Americans already had a growing market in celluar tech before it even reached there. So yeah I agree that Asia has helped popularize and even make the best types of these products. 3. Jpop, is different, but Kpop is pretty similar. Look at the links I added above. 4. While 200 doesn't seem like a lot, Korea is a country smaller than Tennessee that is very over-crowded. and I think that is a good amount for one brand. I don't deny that Chinese food is in full boom, but where I live (Mississippi), I've never seen a Japanese or Korean restaurant, I've been to New York before, and I didn't see any there either. 5. Your argument for the last thing really helps my case I think. You see Nintendo dominates everywhere and is the number-one video game maker, followed by Sony, something that was invented in America. I want to point out one thing, that Nintendo's mascot, Mario was influenced by American Cartoons, same for Sonic. The only thing I can entirely agree with you on is the food thing. And honestly, I don't see how it's not as big as I think when McDonald is still the most popular food chain. Hell, there's like 2,000 of those things in Japan. Samsung and Sony are the number one electronic makers, but most of the stuff they make aren't originals and they usually originated in America. Asia may make the products, which I think has more to do with economy. Asians will sell cars for a hell of a lot less, because the cost of labor in places like china, is extremely low. Also you act as if the tanned look is the majority. It isn't. Finally, I'm gonna point out that a lot of things that even Asians made or 'invented' was by inspiration from an existing American idea. Anime was influenced off cartoons and the original creator said he wanted to make the characters eyes big like westerners. This is a bit of a disputable quote so I'll leave that at that. America's influence is still the biggest in the world. And I think it'll take a while before it becomes second. Especially in terms of entertainment. e.g, Movies, Singers, characters (Look at Mickey Mouse's fame in Asia) not so much in Video games, but that varies a lot depending on the country. This is completely understandable for someplace like South Korea, where as that Republic was founded by partial American Ideals and a lot of US army men lived and still do live there. But not somewhere like Europe or Japan. I can't understand that. Yeah, I know, I wish I could write something this long as a school project but that isn't the case...

ToraTiger said: Michael-5 said: Sorry for the late response. I got banned because I called Mugen a dick when he was acting like a dick. Worth it, but he's still being super arrogent and annoying, and wanting to butt rape me or something... lol Coincidence - I dunno, I'm dating a Korean girl who moved from Korea in.... 2002. Oh well, yea, that's pre 2005. I know they use English in a lot of Korean songs, but most younger Korean people know english fairly well. It's not the official second language in Korea or Japan, but (especially in Japan) because a lot of media/products get exported (e.g. anime, games, etc) a little bit of English is often thrown into songs, and sometimes the primary title of a product is in english. I don't think Korean/Japanese Pop stars dress anything at all like American/European Pop Stars. Nooo way. I also don't see too much of a resemblance in music. You don't see people who dress like Niki Menage or Christina Agulara (I know I spelt them wrong) in Asia. Food - Asian food in USA is salty and full of carbs, but real oriental food is very different. This is the same as pizza in USA and Itally. American corporations add tons of salt to food to encourage drink sales because drinks are where most companies make a profit. It's really difficult to find a true Korean/Japanese restaurant in USA/Canada. I live in Toronto, and I only know of 1 truely authentic Japanese restaurant (Guu), and 2 authentic Korean restaurants (Local). Most have horribly altered, westernized menus. Did you know that Chow Mein was invented by a Chinese American and is not actually a chinese dish, but an American one? In Japan and Korea, there are very very few western chains. Did you know that Wal-Mart pulled out of South Korea because of a lack of sales? McDonalds survived, but even then it's really really uncommon in Korea, and fairly uncommon in Japan. Plus in Korea and Japan, the menu is heavily Easternized (They have a shrimp burger!). As for Asians being short, if their food was malnourishing them, they wouldn't be skinny, and their average life expectancy wouldn't be higher then that of a European/American, but it is. Plastic Surgery - Are V-Jaw's Caucasian Traits? My girlfriend and a lot of other asian girls I know have V-Jaws and they didn't have surgery. I actually think in general asian people (excluding chinese) more often tend to have oval shaped heads. I think the ethnicity which specifically doesn't have V-Jaws are Native Americans/Asians, and Central/South Americans. Also what do you mean by western noses? I'm Eastern European, and all of us have gigantic noses, and I don't think it's considered beautiful. Most people I know usually make fun of people with big noses, and I believe in Eastern and Northern European people, nose reduction surgery is common. Can we argue that more asians get nose surgery then caucasians? I dunno, I didn't know that was a common asian surgery until now As for the Jersey Shore look, while you and I might think it's dumb......I think there are a lot of....I'm going to go with inbred (I know they aren't, but it feels right), Americans/Canadians who think orange skin and fake boobs are hot. Sadly I think the fraction of people who find this hot is a high one here in North America. Hair - I wouldn't say that Asians dying their hair brown mimics caucasians. When asian people get exposed to lots of sunlight, their hair turns brown (in the same way most caucasians hair will turn more blonde). I think, judging from the people I know, that that brown is to immitate a look which shows that. As for straightening/curling (perms are common in Asia) hair, I think it is an influence of the others culture, but it's equal in both directions. As for Blond hair....you're spot on, I wikipedia's it. However Native Australians have the highest frequency of blonde hair, with a rate greater then 90%. When you think about it, a lot of Australians are Blonde. So......this just proves, we're trying to be Aussies? Obesity What you described seems cultural. If you're so busy that you only have time for fast food, or your culture encourages over-eating and large portion meals, I think those are cultural factors, not social. Japanese people, and German people are known to be hard workers, and they don't encounter obesity problems in anywhere nearly as high numbers. So why do Americans have 10x more obese people then Japan/S.Korea and 3x as many as Germany? It's because fast food chains in the USA are really messed up, they add tons of salt to make you thirsty, and tons of sugar/fat because it's cheaper to produce. Fast Food places in Europe and Asia are typically a lot healthier, and the standards are much higher. It's culturally acceptable to eat crap in USA and arguably Canada/UK/Australia too, but in mainland Europe and Developed Asia, those standards are different. Factoid. McDonalds used to make burgers from "100% Beef" correct? 100% Beef is the company name, the beef content in their burgers is about 20%. The rest is corn starch and high fructose corn syrup (basically sugar, which gets converted into fat). Influence - Apple gets sued by Samsung just as often as the other way around. Also, while tablets were popularized by Americans, cell phones were popularized by the Japanese. Which is bigger? 1. I agree 2. I disagree. While Americans invented cell phones, the Japanese were the first to create an automated cellunar network, and it was only until. Also the evolution of cell phones has roots in all parts of the world. Americans made the 1G network, Europeans the 2G and 4G, and Japanese the 3G. Also while American pioneered cell phone technology, Nokia and Samsung took over the market. Apple is 3rd. Also Europeans created the first tablets, not Apple. - I had to look most of this stuff up, good debate. 3. I can agree with you here, but only because I dunno. J/K-Pop seems very different then A-Pop, but A-Pop did come first (I think) 4. There are 200 McDonalds Diners in a country with a population of 50 million? That's 4 restaurants per 1 million people. The population of Manhattan is 1.6 million people, with that McDonalds distribution, that would be about 6 McDonalds restaurants in the entire city....it's not that wide spread. As for Asian food in North America, it depends where you live. In Toronto, Vancouver, Los Angeles, and Manhattan, there are more "asian" restaurants then anything else. However I bet in Dallas, Denver, and Los Vegas, that's probably not the case. Still most city's have a "China Town", but in Korea they do not have a "little USA." Last point, most of the things you named which are "American" aren't. Blondes are most commonly Australian, Brown Hair is not done to immitate Caucasians, Cell Phones boomed because of the Europeans/Japanese (while invented by the Americans), Tablets were invented by Europeans, and aren't that popular in asian, Caucasians probably do more nose reduction surgery's then Asians do the opposite, there are more asian places in North America then there are American places in Asia, American culture isn't followed outside the USA much (people don't eat as much as Americans, and the Jersey Shore/Nikki Menage look isn't really seen outside the USA). Also, one thing to add, tablets are only mosreatly popular in asian (it's not like here), but Nintendo dominates with it's handhelds everywhere, and Samsung is the largest cell phone company now, followed by Nokia. America's influence doesn't extend as far outside USA as you might think. Also, since were talking about products, what's the best selling car of all time and largest car manufacturer? Toyota Corolla and Toyota, Japanese, thank you (and again Europeans invented the car). Who makes most TV? Samsung, and the make TV's for many other companies like Sony and Toshiba. Product wise, I think Americans are imitating the Japanese more then vice versa (cars are looking more Asian nowdays). This is getting quite expansive.. Lol I didn't know you could get banned on here for calling someone a name. I had to have said that several times lol. Well, back on topic, I understand that a lot of things get imported so that requires a certain level of delicacy to insure that the product is met with the same impact as its original. But that being said, a lot is also imported from Asia, like China. Most everything is made in China and a lot of electronics are made and produced in Japan and Korea. Most Electronics are made at Foxconn, in China. On the fashion, if you look at the boy bands, they all wear hoodies, street shoes, jump-suits (That's popular here?), sunglasses, ect. Like you said, not all of the female idols dress too much like Americans, but you'd still see someone wearing a overly eccentric dress like Katy Perry(Katy Perry dresses over eccentrically to emphasis her sex appeal, like with giant nipples, most asians don't do that), or something completely obscure like Lady Gaga. I've stated this in my previous posts' because I read somewhere that American fashion lines are booming in South East Asia and I'm sure most Americans don't even know what Asian fashion looks like aside from Yukatas and Kimonos. Maybe, but i dunno. I don't know how many asians wear hoodies, and I don't think you can classify sunglasses as American. I bet they are European again.  A good amount of Koreans may know English, but I highly doubt most people there, even younger ones knows the meanings to all the english words that are used in the songs. Even if that were the case, alot of Koreans know Japanese and vise versa, Nope, this isn't true, that's like saying a lot of Mandarin Chinese know Cantonese, or that a lot of Russians know Ukrainian, or that a lot of English people know Frech, not true. but neither really borrow those words to use in their songs. That's like saying, just because alot of Americans know Spanish, then you'll automatically see Spanish references in its media. If the music doesn't sound similar to you, look at these. And these are some of the most popular artists in Korea, btw (G.Dragon, SNSD, B2ST, ect.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6b6dtwJI8I (20 seconds) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSIS_syd69s (1 minute.) Okay.....with those music videos, I didn't realize how similar K-Pop was to American. Then I agree with you, Asian music is heavily influenced by Americans, but in the interest of fairness there is still a lot of original K/J-Pop, and some songs (like Gangnan Style) do sound uniquely Korean (ignoring the fact that the song is in Korean). On the food, dude I don't know. I've been to Indonesia once before, and I'd say that stuff was worse for you than fast-food. Indonesia is not Japan/Korea, and the food in places like Vietnam, Thailand, Philippenes and Indonesia is very different from the food in Korea and Japan. The reason they weren't blobs there with the stuff they were eating was because they probably eat about half as much as most Americans. I know that's not Korea, but it's still technically Asia. I do agree that the food is extra unhealthy in USA, because..well Americans love unhealthy food. Though I still don't think it's healthy even in Asia. Rice is super popular there, and that stuff is full with carbs. It's just not as fattening, and that's what most American's worry about. Any organic diet would be better suited for someone trying to be healthy. There is a massive market for McDonalds in Japan and Japan's a small Island. It's not exactly as popular in Korea, though it is definitely rising. Check out this article. http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2011/01/mcdonalds-korea-to-double-number-of.html It's not that Americans like to eat unhealthy, they like to eat cheap, and mega corporations takes advantage of that. I'm pretty sure Americans don't want salt added to pop to make them thirsty. Yes asians like rice, but you do realize that nearly 50% of your intake is suppose to be carbs? In Korea and Japan they almost exclusively eat rice, but in North America people eat a lot of bread and pasta too, wheat/gluton based carbs, which not everyone can digest. Also P.S. Organic isn't actually healthier for you, just more expensive. What's good for you are veggies, add more veggies to your diet and you will garentee loose weight. A friend of mine used to be 300 Plus lb, went on a veggie only diet and lost 90lb in just over 3/4 months. He's still 210, but he's also 6'2, so he isn't too large. As for McD's in Korea, well I'll be, it's growing, but it's not growing that much (243 stores over 50 million is like 7 stores in a city as large as Manhatten, or 8 in Toronto). In Large, Coastal US cities, Asian restaurants are growing much more quickly. And Wal-Mart isn't really a heavy hitter in metropolitan areas, so I wouldn't expect it to be a success in places like Korea or Japan. I dunno, it's doing fine in major cities in USA and Canada. As for them being stunted by their diets, I think that's true. It's not exactly them being malnourished. Look, people need HGH to grow, either muscles or bone density. When you eat a lot of carbohydrates it inhibits your body's ability to secrete HGH. HGH also causes stress on the body (Growing pains ect) Also, There diets don't have as much fat in it, so I guess they substitute carbs for fat when it comes to energy. As for them living longer, that could be exercise, (a lot of Japaneses ride there bikes to places instead of bus) they don't eat as unhealthy, so they don't develop ailments like diabetes or increased-cholesterol or hypertension. Also, just to add, Asians have been known to grow a lot taller when they come to the west. Maybe fatter, but also taller. Actually I was thinking, most asians aren't that short you know. The average height of a Korean person is like 5'8/5'9. Yao Ming is 7'6 and he is from Northern China (where Chinese people are actually really tall). It's only in Japan where people are short and southern asia (Thailand, South China, etc). So I don't think their diet makes them short. Also asians don't exercise as much as Americans. I said this before but the muscular appearance on asian women is specifically seen as unattractive. Asian girls go out of their way not to be too muscular. However I agree with you about Diabetes and heart problems, there is almost no fat in asian diets so they don't die from issues like this. And yes, I guess obesity could also be a cultural problem, since america also has free food basically for anyone under 18. And their eatery like Micky Ds and there conpatriant don't offer a lot of healthy choices for cheap. Though I think over-eating or depression is a problem with the society. Surgery. This is the article I used in the opening of this Thread. http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/19/korea.beauty/index.html Well, maybe V-jaws aren't exactly a complete rarity in Asia, but it is far more common in most other places. As for the nose thing, Asian's usually have low noses with open nostrils. White people have longer noses but their nostrils aren't usually as open. So when Asians change their noses through surgery they lengthen it, and close the nostrils a bit. It's not as popular as the double eye-lids but it's still common. I agree with you about Double Eye-Lid Surgery.. However this is a minor surgeries, it's nowhere nearly the same as breast implants or calf implants, or botox injections which can all leak. I agree with you in the sense that asians will do minor plastic surgery to look more American, but the impression I had from your article is that they are plastic surgery obsessed and it's not true. As for Nose surgery, I don't think people (asian, eastern european, etc) do it to look more caucasian particularly. They do it to look more average. I took a psychology course once and it argued that people are attracted to a more average look. If you average two faces together the resulting face will look a lot better then the two or more contributing faces (usually). So I would argue that this type of surgury is common in all cultures, and it's done to look more average, not caucasian specifically. Yeah, there's definitetly a following for the Jersey Look, but I think most people think it's ridiculous. Also, this shouldn't even be considered a majority, isn't us hating it enough of a reason for it to never be the majority? I mean, if I were in Korea right now I'd probably think surgery on girls is so hot. Not for my own measure, just because what society would have fed me. Hair. I'm aware that sunlight can bleach hair, but I don't think it can bleach it that light. But Asians in Korea don't usually have light brown hair when they die it. It's usually dark brown. For the same reason caucasian people have trouble dying their hair white, asians have 2x as much trouble lightening their hair. I have black hair, and am in the hot sun a lot but my hair never got to the point where it was as light as the Koreans I know. I think bleach brown is really to light to be considered brown. And if this were the case, I would assume that all Asians have brown hair like the Koreans, but that isn't the case. It just seems so natural there. When you see ⅝ of your idols with that hair color, it would make many people want to dye it the same. I'm not exactly saying all of them are doing it to mimick whites, I was just pointing out that a massive percent of them have that color. I think you and I have a different impression as to how brown asians hair tends to be. I think it's darker, almost black, you think it's lighter, almost beach brown. I don't think straightening/curling is an influence most of the time. Seeing as some women curl their hair to make it easier to manage or straighten it sometimes just to try it. This just seems too natural to me to be considered a influence. LOL at the Austrailians having that much blonde hair. The thing is, in America, beauty is far more subjective than it is in Asia. In America, you'll see actresses that all look different that are considered beautiful in there own way. Megan Fox (Cat Eye Surgery), Taylor Swift (Oval Russian eyes), Jessica Alba, Angolena Jolie ect. While in Korea, their definition of beauty seems very definitive. You'll see a group of Korean girls, and about half of them have the exact same style. Same hair, eyes ect. Which makes me think they're trying to look like something. Influence. I think a lot of this is our impression of Korea/Japan without going there. When my girlfriend came to Canada she thought we all drove large, flat, american sedans (like maybe in the 60's), but she was surprised to see so many of us drive asian cars. I think you and I are under the same influence, and if we go to Korea/Japan, we will be surprised to see how different it is from what we think. Apple is only sued by Samsung in Korea, where Samsung has a larger presence and it's easier for them to take legal matters. Apple on the other hand has sued Samsung three times, twice in America and once in Europe. Actually...they have sued each other plenty more times, and Samsung has sued Apple a lot more then you thing. Apple also sued Samsun in Japan, but lost there. I wasn't trying to be bleak in that post, I could have added a lot of other things, like how Koreans use Youtube to upload there videos, (Like Gagnam style) USA websites are very popular in Korea, e.g Facebook, Twitter, ect, more than there own sites and how they seem to enjoy MMOs a lot. Hell, I could've said they love computers and the internet in general, but I don't think that is fair to the premise of this debate. I Said smartphones, something that was solely popularized by the Iphone, but now is being dominated by Samsung. I think it would be hard to make a case either way. Americans are known to invent a lot of technologies, and in the case of Facebook and Youtube, or even google, forms of social media. However, when you look at something like say video games, there were very distinct differences between American and Japanese games, and it's hard to argue which has a bigger influence. Final Fantasy is huge in USA, and many JRPG's sell better here then in Japan, but on the same note Starcraft 2 is mega big in Korea. Then again so is Pro Evolution Soccer, and that's European. 2. As for the cellphone thing, this kinda helps my argument in a way. Seeing as all these things were made in America Good inventors) and have become more popular in other parts of the world and other countries are now the top producers of these such products. Though I disagree on Japanese popularizing cellphones. This isn't the same case as with Video games, Americans already had a growing market in celluar tech before it even reached there. So yeah I agree that Asia has helped popularize and even make the best types of these products. Can we argue that the inventors are the people who stylized the products? If that's the case, most things were invented by the Europeans (except for post WWII, where USA has really risen). If we argued like this then we would have to say that were all heavily influenced by the Europeans because we live in heated houses, drive cars, and sleep in beds. 3. Jpop, is different, but Kpop is pretty similar. Look at the links I added above. 4. While 200 doesn't seem like a lot, Korea is a country smaller than Tennessee that is very over-crowded. and I think that is a good amount for one brand. I don't deny that Chinese food is in full boom, but where I live (Mississippi), I've never seen a Japanese or Korean restaurant, I've been to New York before, and I didn't see any there either. I haven't been to Manhattan in a while, but In Toronto, Los Angeles and Vancouver, there are more Asian Restaurants then anything else. Heck if I name the 10 closest food restaurants near me it's either Tim Hortins (Huge chain in Canada, Coffee/sandwich joint) or asian. It also depends on the size of these stores. You know there are more Subway Sandwich retailers in the world then there are McDonalds? However McDonalds is still a much much bigger company because Subway retailers are much much smaller then McDonalds. 5. Your argument for the last thing really helps my case I think. You see Nintendo dominates everywhere and is the number-one video game maker, followed by Sony, something that was invented in America. I want to point out one thing, that Nintendo's mascot, Mario was influenced by American Cartoons, same for Sonic. Again, can we give the country of origin credit for the stylization of the product? Do 1960's Muscle cars scream European to you? Same with my arguements about asian/american influence. The only thing I can entirely agree with you on is the food thing. And honestly, I don't see how it's not as big as I think when McDonald is still the most popular food chain. Hell, there's like 2,000 of those things in Japan. Samsung and Sony are the number one electronic makers, but most of the stuff they make aren't originals and they usually originated in America. Asia may make the products, which I think has more to do with economy. Asians will sell cars for a hell of a lot less, because the cost of labor in places like china, is extremely low. Eh, not true! The Japanese have higher building standards then American on Cars, and in places like USA imported cars are heavily taxed. Usually Japanese cars cost significantly more then their American counter parts. Toyota Camry's cost a lot more the Chevrolet Malibu's, Honda Civics/Fits cost a lot more then Chevy Cruze's and Aveo's. Also you act as if the tanned look is the majority. It isn't. I know, but I also argued that we might have an exaggerated view of Korea/Japan. Like I said my gf thought we all drove large sedans like we did in the 60's. Heck I bet you think Cubans still drive cars like that don't you? My friends went to Cuba and said there were a lot of European cars there (like SEAT). Finally, I'm gonna point out that a lot of things that even Asians made or 'invented' was by inspiration from an existing American idea. Anime was influenced off cartoons and the original creator said he wanted to make the characters eyes big like westerners. This is a bit of a disputable quote so I'll leave that at that. America's influence is still the biggest in the world. All Americans think this, but I disagree. When you leave the USA, even to just Canada, people really don't try to be more American. Yes Americans invented a lot of stuff recently, but they didn't stylize it. Yes Anime might have originally been based on American cartoons, but look at it now, it is anything but American. Yes cars were invented by Europeaners, but there are huge differences between Asian, American, and European cars. (e.g. Americans - Big and cheap, European - stylish like Ferarri, or refined like German cars, but generally small, Japanese - Reliable, small, and usually techy) And I think it'll take a while before it becomes second. Especially in terms of entertainment. e.g, Movies, Singers, characters (Look at Mickey Mouse's fame in Asia) not so much in Video games, but that varies a lot depending on the country. This is completely understandable for someplace like South Korea, where as that Republic was founded by partial American Ideals and a lot of US army men lived and still do live there. But not somewhere like Europe or Japan. I can't understand that. Yeah, I know, I wish I could write something this long as a school project but that isn't the case... I do agree with you about K-Pop now, but in general, I don't think Americans have as strong of an influence outside USA as Americans think. Apple is big...in the USA, not WW, that's why Samsung and Nokia are much bigger company's. I mean, are BlackBerry's (Canadian) big in USA? I bet not, but in Canada every other person has one. Domestic products and influences will always be strong in that country, but outside the country it's not always the case. In general, I think the Japanese are pretty original in their style, but some things are influenced by Americans (double eye lid surgery, K-Pop, etc)

You could have broken that up into multiple paragraphs you know.

One thing I do want to add, relating to surgury. Breat Implants are the most common surgury in California, but so are butt, botox injections, calf and forearm implants. Plastic surgery rates are 25% there, but the thing is these surgery's are all pretty major, and drastic (unlike Double Eye-Lid surgery). While most Americans don't get orange skin, tatoos and implants, California state (and probably other major cities) have huge populations, and they are common there and California is 2/3rds as large as Korea in terms of population, and it's bigger then Canada. So I think this is a large enough sub-population in the USA to establish a trend.

I used it as an example because I felt it's one I thought you would agree with me on. Most people, even most Americans, don't want to look like that. Orange Skin tatoos and implants aren't that popular outside of USA (or even in central USA). However this is an genuinly American look. Yet if you look at extreme styles in Asia or Europe, people do they to immitate that. People want to look like french fashion models, or skinny asian girls (not athletic, but skinny). Try to name one extreme sub-population (like Jersey Shore peoples in USA) in Asia which is particularly distasteful here.

 

Um.  I didn't how to quote this, so I've copied you replies and responded to them.  Yours are in bold.   Hopefully you'll be able to understand all of this.

Most Electronics are made at Foxconn, in China.

Yeah,  it's because of the cheap cost of labor there and the  Chinese Goverment doesn't seem to have anything against factories polluting their air.   Though China itself produces very few popular products that they themselves have created.

Maybe, but i dunno. I don't know how many asians wear hoodies, and I don't think you can classify sunglasses as American. I bet they are European again.

Well what about Jeans, sneakers and caps?  Those seem pretty American, if you ask me. 

 Nope, this isn't true, that's like saying a lot of Mandarin Chinese know Cantonese, or that a lot of Russians know Ukrainian, or that a lot of English people know Frech, not true.

My point still stands though.  Not enough of them know English to warrant those many references.  

Indonesia is not Japan/Korea, and the food in places like Vietnam, Thailand, Philippenes and Indonesia is very different from the food in Korea and Japan.

That's true, but a lot of their food is similar, like rice and fish, and Indonesians are just as skinny. 

It's not that Americans like to eat unhealthy, they like to eat cheap, and mega corporations takes advantage of that. I'm pretty sure Americans don't want salt added to pop to make them thirsty. Yes asians like rice, but you do realize that nearly 50% of your intake is suppose to be carbs? In Korea and Japan they almost exclusively eat rice, but in North America people eat a lot of bread and pasta too, wheat/gluton based carbs, which not everyone can digest.

Also P.S. Organic isn't actually healthier for you, just more expensive. What's good for you are veggies, add more veggies to your diet and you will garentee loose weight. A friend of mine used to be 300 Plus lb, went on a veggie only diet and lost 90lb in just over 3/4 months. He's still 210, but he's also 6'2, so he isn't too large.

As for McD's in Korea, well I'll be, it's growing, but it's not growing that much (243 stores over 50 million is like 7 stores in a city as large as Manhatten, or 8 in Toronto). In Large, Coastal US cities, Asian restaurants are growing much more quickly.

I know carbs are important, and they aren't quite as bad for you as fats and some sugars, but the way they eat is asking for hypertension, just like how the diets American's have are just asking for diabetes.   I disagree on the organic thing, Veggies and fruits are both organic, and organic cooking usually has less emphasis on things like added sodium or carbs.   I do agree that it is more expensive, but that's their choice if they wanna be healthier.    As for McD's, I know it's not a ton, but that's just one chain.

Actually I was thinking, most asians aren't that short you know. The average height of a Korean person is like 5'8/5'9. Yao Ming is 7'6 and he is from Northern China (where Chinese people are actually really tall). It's only in Japan where people are short and southern asia (Thailand, South China, etc). So I don't think their diet makes them short.

Also asians don't exercise as much as Americans. I said this before but the muscular appearance on asian women is specifically seen as unattractive. Asian girls go out of their way not to be too muscular. However I agree with you about Diabetes and heart problems, there is almost no fat in asian diets so they don't die from issues like this.

I'm unsure about Asians not being very short, they are like the shortest sub-group of people.  Koreans are like the tallest Asians and still they aren't as tall as any Europeans or Africans.   Northern Chinese are also tall for Asians, but I think that's because they have some Russian in their blood.  As for that Yao meng guy, I think that's a freak accident.  China has more people than Europe and America combined, so of course when there's so many people someone might turn out being freakishly tall.  I think you're confusing exercise with weight training.  Cardio won't make you build muscles at all.  Like dancing or cycling, unless you're doing it competitively.   American's don't exercise much unless in sports or something.  That's the main reason why they're so fat.  Americans, (men especially) would go into weight training at get super big, but that isn't helping them lose fat, it mostly just builds muscle so they'd still be just as fat, just with bigger arms.  Metropolitan areas in general have a lesser chance of becoming fat than people who live in less dense areas.  This is the same for America, were people in large cities have shown to be skinnier on average.  

In general though,  South Koreans are probably the only Asian that could be considered close to the size of Caucasians, and this is definitely because of some external factors.  For instance,  North Koreans are considerably shorter and their genes are exactly the same and only split-up in the last 60 years or so.  BTW the average Asian, in the mean is about 5'6.5, while the average White americans/eurpoeans are close to 5'10.5.  

I agree with you about Double Eye-Lid Surgery.. However this is a minor surgeries, it's nowhere nearly the same as breast implants or calf implants, or botox injections which can all leak. I agree with you in the sense that asians will do minor plastic surgery to look more American, but the impression I had from your article is that they are plastic surgery obsessed and it's not true.

To be honest I can't see how V-jaws or even double eyelids seem minor to you.  I mean any altering on the face is far more noticable than on the body.  If I had calf implants I don't think alot of people would notice immediately,  same for the chest.  If I workout a lot I could probably get the same results.  Altering the face is completely different, and not to mention it's permanent.

I didn't say they are obsessed with cosmetic surgery exactly,  but Asians, collectively, especially Koreans, prefer it the most.  Easily.  Hell, cosmetic surgery are even a job requirement in Korea sometimes and a lot of people feel anxious about not having it.   If you look at the percentages,  some 30 percent of American women would think about it, while in Korea that percent would probably be pass 95 percent.  

As for Nose surgery, I don't think people (asian, eastern european, etc) do it to look more caucasian particularly. They do it to look more average. I took a psychology course once and it argued that people are attracted to a more average look. If you average two faces together the resulting face will look a lot better then the two or more contributing faces (usually). So I would argue that this type of surgury is common in all cultures, and it's done to look more average, not caucasian specifically.

If this is the case, aren't their natural noses already average? 

But Asians in Korea don't usually have light brown hair when they die it. It's usually dark brown. For the same reason caucasian people have trouble dying their hair white, asians have 2x as much trouble lightening their hair.

It's like you said, they have a tough time dying it and it's usually dark brown.   So I think they often just settle for dark brown.  Furthermore, here's a link of the biggest Girl Group in Korea.  http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/32500000/Snsd-girls-generation-snsd-32581182-1920-1200.jpg  Notice their curled hairstyles, western fashion, eyes bigger than most white people, most of their hair colors are pretty light if you ask me.  Honestly, I don't even think most people would be able to tell they're all 100% Asian at all. 

I think you and I have a different impression as to how brown asians hair tends to be. I think it's darker, almost black, you think it's lighter, almost beach brown.

If it's noticable brown on photos, (Google South Korean Crowd)I think that's more than enough to prove that it isn't the result of the sun.    Like I've said before, if it's sun bleaching their hair than all Asians would have it, and the same for Italians like me.  Korea isn't exactly in the same climate as Austrailia so I don't think it's the heat either.   

I think a lot of this is our impression of Korea/Japan without going there. When my girlfriend came to Canada she thought we all drove large, flat, american sedans (like maybe in the 60's), but she was surprised to see so many of us drive asian cars. I think you and I are under the same influence, and if we go to Korea/Japan, we will be surprised to see how different it is from what we think.

I agreee.  I could be wrong, though I highly doubt I'm 100% wrong on all of this.   My views are based own a lot of things.  I can't really vouch for Japan, but I know a lot of Koreans and I'm pretty well-versed in some of their culture.  If you look at South Korean culture in wikipedia, you'd see a lot of references to western culture.  Like how they enjoy American movies.  This is the same impression I had when I was hanging out with my Korean friends and saw some of their media and life styles.    I'm not saying I know how all the Koreans act, and like you said, I would have to live there to have a completely thorough judgement on them, but I have a pretty good idea as to how their society works through the matters I just stated.  

Actually...they have sued each other plenty more times, and Samsung has sued Apple a lot more then you thing. Apple also sued Samsun in Japan, but lost there.

Didn't know that.  But after reading, I realized that Apple filed the first lawsuit and the majority of them.  Also, the judges generally seem to be more in Apple's favor.  I think that Samsung is deliberately copying Apple and just barely are shirking major fines.  

I think it would be hard to make a case either way. Americans are known to invent a lot of technologies, and in the case of Facebook and Youtube, or even google, forms of social media. However, when you look at something like say video games, there were very distinct differences between American and Japanese games, and it's hard to argue which has a bigger influence. Final Fantasy is huge in USA, and many JRPG's sell better here then in Japan, but on the same note Starcraft 2 is mega big in Korea. Then again so is Pro Evolution Soccer, and that's European.

That's what I was saying, though I think Japan has more of an influence overall when it comes to gaming.  Look at all the GameBoys and NES that popularized gaming.  Back in the 80s and 90s, Japanese companies had so much of the Video game Market share, and few killer apps were western games.   Final Fantasy basically set up the form for all other RPGs.  Even MMOs and WRPGs.  American games are more popular now a days, (COD, MMOs ect) but I think Japanese had a larger overall influence in history.   

Can we argue that the inventors are the people who stylized the products? If that's the case, most things were invented by the Europeans (except for post WWII, where USA has really risen). If we argued like this then we would have to say that were all heavily influenced by the Europeans because we live in heated houses, drive cars, and sleep in beds.

I don't think the person who makes the definitive version should be considered the inventer, per se.   I do think the person who releases the first modernized version should have rights, instead of the person who had the original idea, but didn't do anything with it.  And it really depends on how much it's styled.  Kpop shouldn't get any credit for some of it, it you ask me.

BTW I was mostly arguing entertainment in the thread, not so much of lifestyle,  because I think it varies to much on location to make a call on that.  And I think  all First World countries have had  the most influence by many older countries.  Countries older than the US. Though I think that is more of a case of "whatever works the best".  

I haven't been to Manhattan in a while, but In Toronto, Los Angeles and Vancouver, there are more Asian Restaurants then anything else. Heck if I name the 10 closest food restaurants near me it's either Tim Hortins (Huge chain in Canada, Coffee/sandwich joint) or asian.

It also depends on the size of these stores. You know there are more Subway Sandwich retailers in the world then there are McDonalds? However McDonalds is still a much much bigger company because Subway retailers are much much smaller then McDonalds.

I agree, and didn't know that last thing. 

Again, can we give the country of origin credit for the stylization of the product? Do 1960's Muscle cars scream European to you? Same with my arguements about asian/american influence.

I'm not saying the stylizer shouldn't have credit.   Mario pretty much invented the platfrom game genre, so I think it should have credit for that.  However, I think the guy who invented Video games should have the collective credit, just like the person who invented cartoons should have some credit for Mario's design.  

I know, but I also argued that we might have an exaggerated view of Korea/Japan. Like I said my gf thought we all drove large sedans like we did in the 60's. Heck I bet you think Cubans still drive cars like that don't you? My friends went to Cuba and said there were a lot of European cars there (like SEAT).

Yeah, I still think some stereotypes.  BTW Do Canadian's really say "eh" a lot?  That aside, though,  this isn't something I adopted by what society fed me or anything, It's more something I've been doing a small amount of monitoring on for a while,  and so I guess it formed from there.

All Americans think this, but I disagree. When you leave the USA, even to just Canada, people really don't try to be more American. Yes Americans invented a lot of stuff recently, but they didn't stylize it. Yes Anime might have originally been based on American cartoons, but look at it now, it is anything but American. Yes cars were invented by Europeaners, but there are huge differences between Asian, American, and European cars. (e.g. Americans - Big and cheap, European - stylish like Ferarri, or refined like German cars, but generally small, Japanese - Reliable, small, and usually techy)

I think that's economy.  Generally, Japan has a higher economy than the US, not by numbers, but by GDP, employment, and income.  So they will sell their higher quality cars for a higher price.  And I don't see Asian cars as super expensive luxury vehicles, and I'd say they're some of the cheaper vehicles that are reliable.    American cars are cheaper to buy and produce, but that isn't a good thing for something you plan to use everyday and need to constantly rely on.  Thus Asian cars are more popular for the most part.

I do agree with you about K-Pop now, but in general, I don't think Americans have as strong of an influence outside USA as Americans think. Apple is big...in the USA, not WW, that's why Samsung and Nokia are much bigger company's. I mean, are BlackBerry's (Canadian) big in USA? I bet not, but in Canada every other person has one. Domestic products and influences will always be strong in that country, but outside the country it's not always the case. In general, I think the Japanese are pretty original in their style, but some things are influenced by Americans (double eye lid surgery, K-Pop, etc)

BlackBerry is pretty popular here.  I'm not saying everyone everywhere is trying to be American, or a lot of people are.  But what I am saying is that people love things from America for some reason, particularly entertainment.  Definitely the most (Music, Movies, Video games ect ) And it easily has the biggest influence on modern society than any other country in the world.  Mostly in places like South Asia.  I'm not saying this is a good thing either, and personally, I hate this country's ideals and laws.   Also I don't think Samsung is more successful for the reasons you think.  You see the main reason why Asian phones are popular is because they're running on the American-made Android OS, which comes with tons of original and cool features.  Fact: Back when Samsung used their own OS in the past, it couldn't stand a chance against Apple.  So they allied with Google, along with a lot of other Eastern producers to dominating effect.  So I think Google vs. Apple would be a more accurate fight, along with Mac vs Windows, instead of Apple vs Toshiba. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_information_technology_companies

Lastly, if you look at this page, you'd see most of the biggest electronic producers are American companies.  Not Asian.  Hell, Apple sells very little variations of hardware, and it's second in the world.   While Panasonic and Samsung on the otherhand, sells everything from TV, to fridgerators to even washing machines. 

Yeah, I know Anime is completely different from cartoons, and that's why I like it.  But shouldn't the cartoon creator get some recognition for the orignal concept?   

You could have broken that up into multiple paragraphs you know.

One thing I do want to add, relating to surgury. Breat Implants are the most common surgury in California, but so are butt, botox injections, calf and forearm implants. Plastic surgery rates are 25% there, but the thing is these surgery's are all pretty major, and drastic (unlike Double Eye-Lid surgery). While most Americans don't get orange skin, tatoos and implants, California state (and probably other major cities) have huge populations, and they are common there and California is 2/3rds as large as Korea in terms of population, and it's bigger then Canada. So I think this is a large enough sub-population in the USA to establish a trend.

I used it as an example because I felt it's one I thought you would agree with me on. Most people, even most Americans, don't want to look like that. Orange Skin tatoos and implants aren't that popular outside of USA (or even in central USA). However this is an genuinly American look. Yet if you look at extreme styles in Asia or Europe, people do they to immitate that. People want to look like french fashion models, or skinny asian girls (not athletic, but skinny). Try to name one extreme sub-population (like Jersey Shore peoples in USA) in Asia which is particularly distasteful here.

Of course not everywhere is trying to imitate the US, but I think Korea is, to a pretty high degree.   And as for double eyelids not being drastic to you, there are also the V-jaws which are quite also popular.  I think anything that alters someone's face is drastic.  I not denying that the Jersey thing isn't a trend, and I see your point there and I agree with how stupid and drastic it is.  But my main complaint with Korea is that they're trying to look white, and it's so encouraged.  That's their definition of beauty.  While in America, no one's trying to look Asian or anything and the Jersey shore thing isn't as encouraged.   It's a trend to be fair.  But so was disco, goth, and rocker.  (Do you remember how we dressed in the 80s? XD )  Not to mention most of the procedures you've named aren't permanent.  While Korean's use of cosmetic surgery isn't a trend, it's a major part of their lifestyle and culture.   I don't know how long it's been like that, but SK is a pretty new country, so I don't imagine it's that old.  

I want to point a few things out before I conclude.  Firstly skinny is not a style.  And most celebrities in America are skinny and not really athletic.  That's like me saying some Korean dudes lift weights, and that's a copy of the American "muscle-man" style.     Secondly, you act as if American styles aren't popular.  Jeans, sneakers, certain mascaras and make-ups ect.  Lastly, I agree that Europe is the fashion capital, but it's not right to hold Asian styles in the same esteem as French or British Fashions.

I forget the name, but their is a pretty decent size group of Japanese girls who do the tanned skin, surgery thing.  It's not huge, but it's probably on par with the Jersey look in terms of percentage.   If you ask someone well versed in Japan stuff, like an Otaku, they should tell you.

Michael-5 said: So I'll agree with you, a high percentage of asians are trying to look white, specifically swedish, but I won't agree with you that they are trying to look American overall. If you go to Korea, or Japan, muscles on women are frowned upon, and aren't athletic body types considered hot in USA? Europe tends to favor slim girls over athletic as well. So if I were to be specific, Asians are imitating Northern Europeaners. P.S. Please tell me why you think Obesity is a Social thing and not a cultural. Isn't the Fast Food buisness a heavy part of American culture (like it or not)? Aren't Burgers and pop a culturally American meal? Aren't Steakhouses predominantly integrated with American diets?

Hey, hey, hey! Don't limit blondes just to Nothern Europe! Central and Eastern Europe is blonde with blue eyes as well! I'm an example :)

 

And about American food... Man, is it pure trash dipped in fat and made of the worst type of carbohydrates. If you're European and you go there for the first time, even if you're expecting the worse, you're still going to be shocked. How can you eat pizza, when it has so much fat that it gets through the box, no matter how thick it is? Even stuff like Fanta or Coca-Cola is different. When my Canadian friend came to Europe and tried our Fanta, he thought it was real orange juice with vitamins and all. Cause it has so much less sugar and other crap in it. Not that it's good for you, but still NA version is worse. In US even veggies and fruit often seem to be made of plastic. Bleh!