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Thief 4 hero Garrett less "gothic", more "mainstream"

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Slimebeast said:
haxxiy said:
Slimebeast said:

Yes, Thief's Creed and a dumbed down game without a doubt.


Don't be so quick to judge the game without taking a look at it. This is Eidos under SE and so far they've delivered. I'm not worried yet.

Yes, there is hope, especially since Deus Ex was great and the atmospherically similar Dishonored was too. But the new Tomb Raider is an abomination, a dumb game for the masses.

Yeah, that is my fear too after reading original story - Deus, although nowhere near the original, was pretty good game, but this new TR is complete rubbish. Dishonored was very good game, and I'm hoping Eidos will manage to pull with new Thief at least what Arkane did - I would really hate to see another great IP "modernized" in TR fashion, but after reading that update on story, I'm thinking they will take Deus Ex path on this one.



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AndrewWK said:
Is anybody on this forum who actually has played one of the Thief games?

Yes, it's one of the few stealth franchises that actually plays like a stealth game. As long as the game is great I could care less about what they do to Garrett. 



Sigs are dumb. And so are you!

Too sensitive...

It's not Assassins Creed, there is no correlation between these two franchises, and saying so is to say so without facts.Quick to jump the gun when there is no reason to.



Snovalo said:
Too sensitive...

It's not Assassins Creed, there is no correlation between these two franchises, and saying so is to say so without facts.Quick to jump the gun when there is no reason to.


Nope, I don't think people are being too sensitive...they are just being cautious and vocal in advance (just check the forums on other sites), after years of seing what going "more modern" has done to so many great and loved IPs from the past - specialy when Eidos starts talking about more "action moves" in super stealthy franchise where being confrontational is completely out of its style.

Luckily, Edios has already responded, and clarified that completely stealthy runs will be possible - which leads me to believe that it will be more like Dishonored, which is not such a bad thing...



Slimebeast said:
haxxiy said:
Slimebeast said:

Yes, Thief's Creed and a dumbed down game without a doubt.


Don't be so quick to judge the game without taking a look at it. This is Eidos under SE and so far they've delivered. I'm not worried yet.

Yes, there is hope, especially since Deus Ex was great and the atmospherically similar Dishonored was too. But the new Tomb Raider is an abomination, a dumb game for the masses.

I think TR is a great game.



 

 

 

 

 

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HoloDust said:
Slimebeast said:
haxxiy said:
Slimebeast said:

Yes, Thief's Creed and a dumbed down game without a doubt.


Don't be so quick to judge the game without taking a look at it. This is Eidos under SE and so far they've delivered. I'm not worried yet.

Yes, there is hope, especially since Deus Ex was great and the atmospherically similar Dishonored was too. But the new Tomb Raider is an abomination, a dumb game for the masses.

Yeah, that is my fear too after reading original story - Deus, although nowhere near the original, was pretty good game, but this new TR is complete rubbish. Dishonored was very good game, and I'm hoping Eidos will manage to pull with new Thief at least what Arkane did - I would really hate to see another great IP "modernized" in TR fashion, but after reading that update on story, I'm thinking they will take Deus Ex path on this one.

And the "Deus path" would be a quite a good path in your opinion, right? I agree. Let us hope!

The original Thief (the only one I've played in the series), was very difficult to me back in the day. I got spotted by guards all the time. So it was almost too hardcore for me, but with all these modern games that provide no challenge whatsoever, I really really want to experience that old-school hardcore difficulty - at least sometimes.



haxxiy said:
Slimebeast said:
haxxiy said:
Slimebeast said:

Yes, Thief's Creed and a dumbed down game without a doubt.


Don't be so quick to judge the game without taking a look at it. This is Eidos under SE and so far they've delivered. I'm not worried yet.

Yes, there is hope, especially since Deus Ex was great and the atmospherically similar Dishonored was too. But the new Tomb Raider is an abomination, a dumb game for the masses.

I think TR is a great game.

In what way? I know you well as a poster in general, especially when it comes to world-view, politics and stuff (u'r a great guy), but I'm not sure what your view is on gameplay versus presentation, and your view on hand-holding and dumbing down of current gen games.

So, how would you describe the new TR in that context?
 



Slimebeast said:
haxxiy said:
 

I think TR is a great game.

In what way? I know you well as a poster in general, especially when it comes to world-view, politics and stuff (u'r a great guy), but I'm not sure what your view is on gameplay versus presentation, and your view on hand-holding and dumbing down of current gen games.

So, how would you describe the new TR in that context?
 

Why, thank you. You are a great poster too.

As for TR I think there's a fine line between dumbing down and genuinely having to make a game simpler due to people increasingly having less time to play them and 3D assets becoming more expensive. As you surely know, there was way more stuff in old strategy and RPG games than on modern ones. So... yeah.

I think the new TR is more of the later than the former. It isn't like former TR games, much like Fallout 3 isn't Fallout 2, but it delivers what it offers, an interesting action game with a few puzzle and open-world elements to spice things up, and a few hidden depths. That's way more than 95% of the games being released nowadays so props to Eidos for that.

It could be better here and there, yes, but so Assassin's Creed and Drake's Fortune could - it's the same kind of minor flaws of design and gameplay that properly fixed could deliver a generation's finest game next time around.



 

 

 

 

 

haxxiy said:

I think the new TR is more of the later than the former. It isn't like former TR games, much like Fallout 3 isn't Fallout 2, but it delivers what it offers, an interesting action game with a few puzzle and open-world elements to spice things up, and a few hidden depths. That's way more than 95% of the games being released nowadays so props to Eidos for that.

Funny you gave that comparison, I usualy use it to show how it's possible to change franchise quite a bit, and still retain quite a lot of original feel...

As a big fan of original Fallout games, I was more than worried when Bethesda took that IP...it was more than obvious they would make ES with guns. Still, Fallout 3 and NV retained lot of original Fallout feel, and although not as half as good or atmospheric as Fallout 1/2, I still have no problems calling them legitimate Fallout games for modern day gamers.

Opposed to that, this new TR not only has myriad of its own problems as standalone game, like so many reviewers pointed out in their reviews (and do look beyond scores, they are often much higher than what reviews actually sound like - $quare €nix at work there, I suppose), but it completely fails as TR game - instead of exploration, intricate puzzles, platforming and combat that served more as acrobatic show than actual combat, we got game with all those elements painfuly dumbed down, except for combat which become primary focus, thus completely changing DNA of TR.

In additon to that, old TR had bad ass Lara, one that was tomb raiding since she was teenager, and was trained in such affairs - as opposed to this whimpy in presentatonn, yet super-soldier/psycho-killer in actual action Laura - no it's not  typo, I really think this one should be called Laura, cause she was created for "modern" audience in mind and has nothing to do with Lara, just like this TR has nothing to do with original franchise.



HoloDust said:

Funny you gave that comparison, I usualy use it to show how it's possible to change franchise quite a bit, and still retain quite a lot of original feel...

As a big fan of original Fallout games, I was more than worried when Bethesda took that IP...it was more than obvious they would make ES with guns. Still, Fallout 3 and NV retained lot of original Fallout feel, and although not as half as good or atmospheric as Fallout 1/2, I still have no problems calling them legitimate Fallout games for modern day gamers.

Opposed to that, this new TR not only has myriad of its own problems as standalone game, like so many reviewers pointed out in their reviews (and do look beyond scores, they are often much higher than what reviews actually sound like - $quare €nix at work there, I suppose), but it completely fails as TR game - instead of exploration, intricate puzzles, platforming and combat that served more as acrobatic show than actual combat, we got game with all those elements painfuly dumbed down, except for combat which become primary focus, thus completely changing DNA of TR.

In additon to that, old TR had bad ass Lara, one that was tomb raiding since she was teenager, and was trained in such affairs - as opposed to this whimpy in presentatonn, yet super-soldier/psycho-killer in actual action Laura - no it's not  typo, I really think this one should be called Laura, cause she was created for "modern" audience in mind and has nothing to do with Lara, just like this TR has nothing to do with original franchise.

Well all I can say is tht people can still reach different conclusions looking at exactly the same things. Anyways you seem pretty intent on presenting your point of view of what makes a good game as the correct one --- and you are well within your rights on doing so, but keep in mind people might harbor the same feelings about the games or other kind of media you prefer.