By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - Call your Congressman tomorrow as Obama is giving his speech!

Mr Khan said:
kain_kusanagi said:
Mr Khan said:
kain_kusanagi said:
pokoko said:
JoeTheBro said:

About 70% of America is strongly against these gun laws, we will not let it pass!

What is your problem with Obama's proposals?  As a gun owner, I can't see anything to get upset about.  Stronger background checks?  Why is that bad?  The NRA's prized gun-show loopholes might not be as big?  So what?  Why do people want these loopholes to exist?  Ten bullet clips?  Why does anyone need more than that?  What is the big deal?


As a gun owner I have no problem with better background checks and required background checks at gun-shows. I do have a problem with magazine restrictions. When I go out to target shoot I want to load up several large capacity mags so I don't have to stop and reload mags all the time. When it's cold outside it's a bitch to stand there with your gloves off and push cold metal into cold metal. Magazine restrictions won't stop criminals from breaking the law so there's no reason why I shouldn't be alowed to do what I want with my property.

No, but it will mean that criminals (and moreso mass-shooters, who tend to get their stuff legally) will be less likely to be able to fire continuously for sustained amounts of time.

But no, you not getting cold is much more important than people dying. I agree.

I'll say it again. Limited magazine size won't save lives, so why take away my property? I bought it, I've never harmed anyone, and I enjoy owning it. It takes about 1 second to change out a mag. That's not going to save a life undefended by a gun from a madman with guns. So I should give up my property when it would do nothing?

I thought "seconds count" was one of the arguments you people liked to trot around?

Of course, if seconds don't count, then there's no reason for anyone to have guns at all, because the police are there.

"You people" huh?

Seconds do count, in reacting to a threat. The second a shooter enters a school the staff has seconds to respond, but once the madman starts firing, if nobody has a gun to fire back, it's not going to matter if he swaps 20 mags or 10.



Around the Network
sc94597 said:
fordy said:
sc94597 said:
fordy said:
dsgrue3 said:
fordy said:

If I want a 50MT hydrogen fusion bomb, I should be allowed to have it!

Guns, not bombs. Although I think if you wanted to rig your own property with bombs that would only be detrimental to your own property, that should be allowed.

 

 


Let's not discriminate here....

You have your way of "defending" and I have mine.

The 2nd Amendment is primarily for the matter of self-defence against a state that has stolen power from the people - a tyrranical state. Common semi-automatic weapons (the AR-15 is the top rifle in the U.S) are necessary for defense against a tyrranical regime, 50MT hydrogen fusion bombs are not. Strawman arguments represent low capacity for logic. So on, and so on. 

You've shown no logic towards the argument at all. Can you provide any kind of evidence in which a 50MT hydrogen fusion bomb would NOT help with tyrannical reigimes?

You can't just cherry pick. "Oh this limit is suitable enough", while at the same time criticise others for wanting to impose THEIR limits. THAT is low capacity for logic right there...

A 50MT hydrogen fusion bomb is not a weapon with any use of self-defence. It annihilates all in its path and devastes more than just people but also the environment. This is a violation of the non-aggression axiom. As for the limitations, it has to do with the most recent supreme court interpretation of the second amendment in Heller vs. D.C. It was stated that any common weapon (as these semi-automatic weapons are) should not be restricted from civilians. This was also the intentions of the founding fathers. 

How do you determine what a common weapon is though? You're saying semi-automatic weapons are common weapons, and therefore should not be restricted from civilians. What about grenades, or rocket launchers? Where do you draw the line?



Mr Khan said:
kain_kusanagi said:
pokoko said:
JoeTheBro said:

About 70% of America is strongly against these gun laws, we will not let it pass!

What is your problem with Obama's proposals?  As a gun owner, I can't see anything to get upset about.  Stronger background checks?  Why is that bad?  The NRA's prized gun-show loopholes might not be as big?  So what?  Why do people want these loopholes to exist?  Ten bullet clips?  Why does anyone need more than that?  What is the big deal?


As a gun owner I have no problem with better background checks and required background checks at gun-shows. I do have a problem with magazine restrictions. When I go out to target shoot I want to load up several large capacity mags so I don't have to stop and reload mags all the time. When it's cold outside it's a bitch to stand there with your gloves off and push cold metal into cold metal. Magazine restrictions won't stop criminals from breaking the law so there's no reason why I shouldn't be alowed to do what I want with my property.

No, but it will mean that criminals (and moreso mass-shooters, who tend to get their stuff legally) will be less likely to be able to fire continuously for sustained amounts of time.

But no, you not getting cold is much more important than people dying. I agree.


do you realize you can change a magazine in less than a second? if somebody wanted to kill a bunch of people... say 26. all they would have to bring was 3 ten round mags. wow such an unconvience for the shooter. not.

the Assault weapon ban, and numerous (communist) states with laws restricting magazine size, have proven such restrictions have ZERO effect on crime.

but no, you would rather have unconstitutional and inneffective laws pass just to make you feel good.

i suggest you watch this video. skip to 3:45 if you just want to see the part about the stupidity of restricting mag sizes.



Mr Khan said:
badgenome said:
pokoko said:

Ten bullet clips?  Why does anyone need more than that?  What is the big deal?

Why does anyone need to prove that they need something in a supposedly free country?

Why is a seven round magazine so much better than a ten round one? It isn't, obviously, but the real reason for limiting the number of rounds is that it's part of a long game with a ratchet effect. The next time the media decides to stroke its ban-boner over some terrible shooting, the limit would go down to five rounds. Then three. Then magazines would be outlawed altogether.

That and, of course, the pressing need for politicians to be seen as "doing something". Even if that something is utterly useless.

Because the preservation of freedom is just as much about stopping people from doing things as it is about letting people do them, since true, universal freedom is an impossible paradox.

Therefore we categorize them. Mr. Thompson's freedom to live is of a greater importance than Ms. Smith's right to buy something she can shoot for a minute straight without reloading, having been demonstrated that said item has little use for any reason other than infringing on Mr. Thompson's right to life.

except thats not how it works. Ms. Smith's right to own any gun she wants, ends at the point when she decides she wants to use it on Mr. Thompson. and Mr. Thompson's right to voice his feelings on not liking guns, ends at the point he decides to take it frim Ms. Smith.



sc94597 said:
fordy said:
sc94597 said:
fordy said:
dsgrue3 said:
fordy said:

If I want a 50MT hydrogen fusion bomb, I should be allowed to have it!

Guns, not bombs. Although I think if you wanted to rig your own property with bombs that would only be detrimental to your own property, that should be allowed.

 

 


Let's not discriminate here....

You have your way of "defending" and I have mine.

The 2nd Amendment is primarily for the matter of self-defence against a state that has stolen power from the people - a tyrranical state. Common semi-automatic weapons (the AR-15 is the top rifle in the U.S) are necessary for defense against a tyrranical regime, 50MT hydrogen fusion bombs are not. Strawman arguments represent low capacity for logic. So on, and so on. 

You've shown no logic towards the argument at all. Can you provide any kind of evidence in which a 50MT hydrogen fusion bomb would NOT help with tyrannical reigimes?

You can't just cherry pick. "Oh this limit is suitable enough", while at the same time criticise others for wanting to impose THEIR limits. THAT is low capacity for logic right there...

A 50MT hydrogen fusion bomb is not a weapon with any use of self-defence. It annihilates all in its path and devastes more than just people but also the environment. This is a violation of the non-aggression axiom. As for the limitations, it has to do with the most recent supreme court interpretation of the second amendment in Heller vs. D.C. It was stated that any common weapon (as these semi-automatic weapons are) should not be restricted from civilians. This was also the intentions of the founding fathers. 

If a nuclear device does not provide any form of self-defense, then I'd like to know why the US government spent billions, or even trillions of dollars developing nuclear arms in a race against the Soviet Union in the tactic of Mutually Assured Destruction in the late 20th century for. In a state of Total War, against any kind of "tyrannical reigime", everything is on the table in order to maintain power. This INCLUDES the use of nuclear weapons that happen to be at their disposal. Like many gun fanatics have argued, that more guns would reduce crime as nobody would want to shoot at anyone, a tyrannical reigime would be too afraid of unloading their nuclear payload without getting a similar retaliation aimed back towards them.

You cannot quote what the founding fathers' intentions are, because the sad fact is that nuclear devices did not exist in such a time. the Second amendment calls for "the right to keep and bear arms" in a well-regulated malitia. Nuclear arms are still arms, sorry to inform you.

So once again, why should we be working by the limits that YOU deem acceptable?



Around the Network
Arcturus said:
sc94597 said:
fordy said:
sc94597 said:
fordy said:
dsgrue3 said:
fordy said:

If I want a 50MT hydrogen fusion bomb, I should be allowed to have it!

Guns, not bombs. Although I think if you wanted to rig your own property with bombs that would only be detrimental to your own property, that should be allowed.

 

 


Let's not discriminate here....

You have your way of "defending" and I have mine.

The 2nd Amendment is primarily for the matter of self-defence against a state that has stolen power from the people - a tyrranical state. Common semi-automatic weapons (the AR-15 is the top rifle in the U.S) are necessary for defense against a tyrranical regime, 50MT hydrogen fusion bombs are not. Strawman arguments represent low capacity for logic. So on, and so on. 

You've shown no logic towards the argument at all. Can you provide any kind of evidence in which a 50MT hydrogen fusion bomb would NOT help with tyrannical reigimes?

You can't just cherry pick. "Oh this limit is suitable enough", while at the same time criticise others for wanting to impose THEIR limits. THAT is low capacity for logic right there...

A 50MT hydrogen fusion bomb is not a weapon with any use of self-defence. It annihilates all in its path and devastes more than just people but also the environment. This is a violation of the non-aggression axiom. As for the limitations, it has to do with the most recent supreme court interpretation of the second amendment in Heller vs. D.C. It was stated that any common weapon (as these semi-automatic weapons are) should not be restricted from civilians. This was also the intentions of the founding fathers. 

How do you determine what a common weapon is though? You're saying semi-automatic weapons are common weapons, and therefore should not be restricted from civilians. What about grenades, or rocket launchers? Where do you draw the line?

"Dick Heller's application to register his semi-automatic pistol was rejected because the gun was a bottom-loading weapon, and according to the District's interpretation, all bottom-loading guns, including magazine-fed non-assault-style rifles, are outlawed because they are grouped with machine guns.[69] Revolvers will likely not fall under such a ban."

"Scalia's opinion for the majority provided 2nd Amendment protection for commonly used and popular handguns but not for atypical arms or arms that are used for unlawful purposes such as short-barreled shotguns. Scalia stated: "Whatever the reason, handguns are the most popular weapon chosen by Americans for self-defense in the home, and a complete prohibition of their use is invalid." "We think that Miller’s “ordinary military equipment” language must be read in tandem with what comes after: “[O]rdinarily when called for [militia] service [able-bodied] men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time.” 307 U. S., at 179." "We therefore read Miller to say only that the Second Amendment does not protect those weapons not typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes, such as short-barreled shotguns." Furthermore, military grade weapons not being the sort of weapons that are possessed at home that would be brought to militia duty are not the sort of lawful weapon conceived of being protected. "It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful in military service – M-16 rifles and the like – may be banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment’s ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia duty."[73] Therefore, weapons that are most useful in military service – M-16 rifles and weapons like it – are also not provided with 2nd Amendment protection."

 

And no, the weapons in the "Assault weapon" ban aren't military weapons. 



double post



triple post



fordy said:
sc94597 said:
fordy said:
sc94597 said:
fordy said:
dsgrue3 said:
fordy said:

If I want a 50MT hydrogen fusion bomb, I should be allowed to have it!

Guns, not bombs. Although I think if you wanted to rig your own property with bombs that would only be detrimental to your own property, that should be allowed.

 

 


Let's not discriminate here....

You have your way of "defending" and I have mine.

The 2nd Amendment is primarily for the matter of self-defence against a state that has stolen power from the people - a tyrranical state. Common semi-automatic weapons (the AR-15 is the top rifle in the U.S) are necessary for defense against a tyrranical regime, 50MT hydrogen fusion bombs are not. Strawman arguments represent low capacity for logic. So on, and so on. 

You've shown no logic towards the argument at all. Can you provide any kind of evidence in which a 50MT hydrogen fusion bomb would NOT help with tyrannical reigimes?

You can't just cherry pick. "Oh this limit is suitable enough", while at the same time criticise others for wanting to impose THEIR limits. THAT is low capacity for logic right there...

A 50MT hydrogen fusion bomb is not a weapon with any use of self-defence. It annihilates all in its path and devastes more than just people but also the environment. This is a violation of the non-aggression axiom. As for the limitations, it has to do with the most recent supreme court interpretation of the second amendment in Heller vs. D.C. It was stated that any common weapon (as these semi-automatic weapons are) should not be restricted from civilians. This was also the intentions of the founding fathers. 

If a nuclear device does not provide any form of self-defense, then I'd like to know why the US government spent billions, or even trillions of dollars developing nuclear arms in a race against the Soviet Union in the tactic of Mutually Assured Destruction in the late 20th century for. In a state of Total War, against any kind of "tyrannical reigime", everything is on the table in order to maintain power. This INCLUDES the use of nuclear weapons that happen to be at their disposal. Like many gun fanatics have argued, that more guns would reduce crime as nobody would want to shoot at anyone, a tyrannical reigime would be too afraid of unloading their nuclear payload without getting a similar retaliation aimed back towards them.

You cannot quote what the founding fathers' intentions are, because the sad fact is that nuclear devices did not exist in such a time. the Second amendment calls for "the right to keep and bear arms" in a well-regulated malitia. Nuclear arms are still arms, sorry to inform you.

So once again, why should we be working by the limits that YOU deem acceptable?

It did act as a deterrent in the Cold War, but its use would've been retalitory, not a matter of self-defence (one would die regardless.) Hence, it is not a weapon to defend one's life, liberty, or property: it's just a payback device. Meanwhile, a semi-automatic weapon is a defensive weapon first and foremost and while it can be used as a retalitary device, it also has that valid of use of self-defence whilst a nuclear weapon does not. Furthermore, a tyrranical regime would not use Nuclear Weapons on the population who they deem fit to govern, in their own homeland, hence it would make very little sense to fear a domestic enemy who has nuclear weapons. However; if we really needed them, in the event of tyranny, we'd take them with the use of semi-automatic weapons. 



killerzX said:
Mr Khan said:
kain_kusanagi said:
pokoko said:
JoeTheBro said:

About 70% of America is strongly against these gun laws, we will not let it pass!

What is your problem with Obama's proposals?  As a gun owner, I can't see anything to get upset about.  Stronger background checks?  Why is that bad?  The NRA's prized gun-show loopholes might not be as big?  So what?  Why do people want these loopholes to exist?  Ten bullet clips?  Why does anyone need more than that?  What is the big deal?


As a gun owner I have no problem with better background checks and required background checks at gun-shows. I do have a problem with magazine restrictions. When I go out to target shoot I want to load up several large capacity mags so I don't have to stop and reload mags all the time. When it's cold outside it's a bitch to stand there with your gloves off and push cold metal into cold metal. Magazine restrictions won't stop criminals from breaking the law so there's no reason why I shouldn't be alowed to do what I want with my property.

No, but it will mean that criminals (and moreso mass-shooters, who tend to get their stuff legally) will be less likely to be able to fire continuously for sustained amounts of time.

But no, you not getting cold is much more important than people dying. I agree.


do you realize you can change a magazine in less than a second? if somebody wanted to kill a bunch of people... say 26. all they would have to bring was 3 ten round mags. wow such an unconvience for the shooter. not.

the Assault weapon ban, and numerous (communist) states with laws restricting magazine size, have proven such restrictions have ZERO effect on crime.

but no, you would rather have unconstitutional and inneffective laws pass just to make you feel good.

i suggest you watch this video. skip to 3:45 if you just want to see the part about the stupidity of restricting mag sizes.

Then if it's such a small inconvenience, you wouldn't have a problem with this legislation.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.