EdHieron said: DanneSandin said: Yes, it's been the best selling console for like a year or two - doesn't mean it'll catch up to Wii. And question is how much more will it sell than the 360? But none of that matters as Sony more or less haven't earned any money from the PS3. They lost a shit load of money in the beginning, and it's not until recently they've hit their pre-PS3 levels of money. That is not a sustainable business model. The difference between x3ox and PS4 is that MS has a lot of money. They can afford to produce a console at $500 and sell it for $400 - Sony can't. This make MS extremely competitive and can under cut PS4's price point every step of the way. And one of the reasons the Europeans DIDN'T buy a Wii U is BECAUSE of it's high price tag. €350 is a lot in EU right now, so do you really expect Sony to be successful with a €500 system?! It's gonna bomb HARD if it releases with that price. Sony will be forced to cut the price and lose money on it, money they don't have. It doesn't matter how you count the generations; we number them because it makes it easier for the industry (and the fans) to talk about them. No matter how you wanna see the generations, it's a fact we compare the Wii with PS360 - because they're competing against each other for out money. That's what matters. It doesn't matter whether or not you think of Wii U as a gen 7 or gen 8 machine; it will compete with PS720 for the market's money. THAT'S what matter. The Wii is dead and isn't getting any more games; THAT'S why PS3 is gaining on it. Nintendo dropped that piece of machine as if it was poison, and it shows. A much more relevant comparison would be 3DS vs Vita. Tell me, how is that race going? Last I saw the numbers 3DS had sold over 10m in Japan while Vita is stuck somewhere around 500k. Seriously, that's a HUGE difference. Both consoles are being supported and are new entries to the market. Vita is much more powerful than 3DS, so how come 3DS is consistently outselling Vita if Japanese wants better graphics and power? Please explain that to me. 3DS is an inferior piece of technology, and yet it's selling like crazy. It's really and ass raping of the Vita on a scale I've never seen before. Let's compare 3DS vs Vita with Wii U vs PS4: Vita/PS4 has/will have superior technology 3DS/Wii U launched earlier 3DS/Wii U is cheaper What does that tell you? PS4 will be a huge failure if Sony follows your advice. Funny how stringently you Ninty fans defend your points yet underneath them is palpably present the fact that the one thing that frightens you the most is the notion of a coming Playstation console that would be as powerful in its time as PS3 was in its that sells like the PS2.

Maybe you Sony fans are afraid the PS4 will be a massive failure and will be Sony's last console. Either way what Danne said is true, Japanese audience doesn't care much about graphics and that's one of the main reason the 3DS is outselling the Vita, they care about the games, if Vita had better software that would be a different story. 

All of this things you are mentioning will only make Sony fans happy and that won't be enough for a successful next gen, business wise it doesn't make sense and will probably end up in their downfall.

GameAnalyser said: Squilliam said: Well the Wii U is out so we've solved the first part. I guess the PS4 will retail for more than $299 OR they expect a Wii U price cut so the cheapest is probably solving itself. By the way if they aren't releasing the PS4 in 2013 then why the heck are they releasing every single big title they have in the first part of 2013 with a huge blank space towards the end of the year? So not only are they not releasing a PS4 they aren't releasing any really big titles either to compete with the launch of the Xbox Next OR Nintendo's big titles? That huge blank space is for the LAst Guardian and BTS.

And. Versus XIII and Mega Man? All signs point to a slightly more powerful than WiiU console with a similar price for November 2013.

EdHieron said: In Japan the PS2 was still beating the 360 until fairly recently in sales.  Probably it was receiving some relevant level of sales until 2010 like Wii.  As I said they're both being retired at about the same time.  Sony has stopped producing PS2 consoles and Nintendo seems to have stopped making any real effort with the original Wii.   In the bigger picture, the 7th Gen is going to be remembered primarily as the era of the advent of HD Graphics in home video games (since Wii U is the first Nintendo console with HD video output and since it's really only more powerful versus 360 and PS3 in about the same respect as Wii to PS2 and not even to the extent that 360 and PS3 are to Wii, then Wii U should be considered Nintendo's 7th Gen console).  Since the original Wii was never capable of outputting HD visuals, then it really shouldn't be counted as a 7th Gen console.

Obviously, you don't know what a console generation is. It's when consoles are released to compete in the same timeframe, or in case of the lack of competition, a console that replace the old one.
The 7th generation will most likely be remembered for the interface, just like the third.

I don't know what you're trying to prove with PS2 outselling 360 in Japan until recently. Anything outsells 360 in Japan, as it was dead right from the start.

PS2 sales started to fade when 7th generation consoles started coming out 7 years ago. Besides, your logic makes PS2 a seventh generation console.

The PS3 is not the best selling console in the world. That title goes to the 3DS. Yes, it is currently the best selling home console, but that's not going to last for too long. As the Wii U gets more games, this generation winds away, and as the PS3 dies more and more, eventually the Wii U will begin to outsell the PS3. I'm not sure when this will happen, but I'm sure the Wii U will outsell the PS3 during the holidays, which is the most important time of the year.

Passing the 360 yeilds no advantages for Sony or consumers. When the PS3 passes the 360, it's only going to be by a tiny amount, so it's not going to change the grand situation. Developers & consumers aren't going to abandon the 360 and switch to the PS3. Nor is Sony suddenly going to start making more money. However, the disadvantages  of such a move are quite serious. You give both the Wii U and Nextbox an even bigger headstart than what they would have otherwise. You also leave the PS3 as the primary Playstation console even though it's going to be practically dead during 2014. This simply isn't worth it when they are no advantages at all. 

The PS3 is in a steep decline. In 2012, the console sold only 11.8m units, which is down 16% even with the new Slim. This year, it'll drop even harder meaning it'll sell ~9.5m or less, especially as this generation dies. 9.5m isn't too bad if the PS4 is also releasing this year, but if not, then those are some worrying sales. That means the PS3 will be the primary Playstation console during most of 2014, when it'll sell even less - somewhere around 5-7m I think. These sales simply aren't sustainable for the primary Playstation console. It makes more sense to get the PS4 out when the PS3 still has some life in it (this year) rather than when it'll be dead (next year).

Sony should not focus on power next gen. When they did focus on power with the PS3, it only gave them a minuscule advantage over the 360, and resulted in an extremely expensive console. You seem to have forgotten about how poorly the PS3 did during the first half of the generation. Either that  or you're posting from a fans perspective rather than a business perspective, which it seems you are. Sony needs to go back to their PS1/PS2 strategy and ditch the focus on power altogether imo.

Yes, Sony said they've never been first or the cheapest, but so what? First of all, they didn't even make a claim, they just noted a trend with their hardware. Second of all, even if they made a claim, that means nothing. Remember when they called the Wii a fad? Yeah....Third of all, they can still release a PS4 this year at >$300 and they wouldn't be first or the cheapest. This quote doesn't support your argument at all.

bdbdbd said: EdHieron said: In Japan the PS2 was still beating the 360 until fairly recently in sales.  Probably it was receiving some relevant level of sales until 2010 like Wii.  As I said they're both being retired at about the same time.  Sony has stopped producing PS2 consoles and Nintendo seems to have stopped making any real effort with the original Wii. In the bigger picture, the 7th Gen is going to be remembered primarily as the era of the advent of HD Graphics in home video games (since Wii U is the first Nintendo console with HD video output and since it's really only more powerful versus 360 and PS3 in about the same respect as Wii to PS2 and not even to the extent that 360 and PS3 are to Wii, then Wii U should be considered Nintendo's 7th Gen console).  Since the original Wii was never capable of outputting HD visuals, then it really shouldn't be counted as a 7th Gen console. Obviously, you don't know what a console generation is. It's when consoles are released to compete in the same timeframe, or in case of the lack of competition, a console that replace the old one. The 7th generation will most likely be remembered for the interface, just like the third. I don't know what you're trying to prove with PS2 outselling 360 in Japan until recently. Anything outsells 360 in Japan, as it was dead right from the start. PS2 sales started to fade when 7th generation consoles started coming out 7 years ago. Besides, your logic makes PS2 a seventh generation console.

 

Also worth pointing out, to call the 7th generation 'the HD generation' is a misnomer - not just because the Wii lacked HD functionality, but because the so-called 'HD twins', PS3/xbox360, rarely ever outputted games in full HD. 

1280x720 was the norm, which to me barely even registers as half-assed HD. Why? well my old PC 17" 4:3 monitor had a resolution of 1280x1024 - noone ever calls that HD, and that's factoring in a small screen size, which for those in the know is always going to flatter any resolution, within reason.   

Giving the next Xbox time to take the lead again would be a big mistake I think, if it comes out in 2013 that doesn't mean it will be gimped. I don't think the next Xbox will be gimped either.

DestructorGT said:

I agree with you that it will be a powerful console but 2013 seems more realistic right now after all the rumors and leaks. And also I wonder if they will cut the life-span of new consoles to maybe 5 years because after that the hardware gets really old. I mean new phones are released every year and they are usually twice as powerful as their predecessors. By the time next consoles are announced (after ps4 and new xbox) the phones will be more powerfull, especially after the newly announced tegra 4. Cutting life-span seems more realistic than putting the best graphics card and processor because of the costs.

I doubt anyone wants to cut the cycle. 5 years have been the "standard". But as console release is expensive, and with costs rising every generation, the game development cycle is only going to take longer, which will set certain limits on how often you're able to release a new console.

Smartphones, tablets and PC improve performance constantly. The most powerful device today is not-so-powerful after two months. But also the applications available, aren't taking advantage of the hardware, because the devs don't have time to do it.

i agree the PS4 wont be under powered it will be on par or better then the next xbox. anf if it not i will still own it.
and it will come out late 2013 or early 2014

Seems unlikely. Why repeat the exact same mistakes of the previous generation?

@ManUtdFan: Actually even the 720p is a stretch for PS360, as lots the games run on sub-720 resolution.