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Forums - General Discussion - To Christians: Adam/Eve vs dinosaurs?

KHlover said:
mai said:
ps3-sales! said:

And for the fossil records, I find it impossible for me to believe that scientists can tell you how many millions of years old a rock is. That just sounds stupid. I know they have their equations and tests and what not, but still.

Radiometric dating for instance.

Cannot even take OP seriosuly. Your parents must be some christian fundamentalists.

 

I don't want to insult OP or anything, but "If your comment critizes my religious views without any good input, I have no problem reporting it and hopfully the mods take care of it. " worries me a bit, as ANY opposing opinion can very easily be interpretet as "critizising his religious views without any good input". The various contradictions in his post make it very easy to contradict him, so I hope this thread isn't just a trap. 

No this has been going great!!! I only said that so there was no bashing, and their hasn't been. I've read all of the comments and opinions and it's facinating to see how others think about this topic. 

As for the Carbon/radiometric dating argument: I'm not a sponge. I don't just suck up all the information given to me and spew them back at people as facts. I like to do my own research mixed in with a little common sense here and there. I realize that you can approximate the age of a rock based on layers of earth fading away caused by erosion. But nobody will ever convince me that you can say that a certain rock or fossil is 65 million years old. What makes 60 million different from 80 million? They are all estimating. They don't know exactly. So always take the scientist's with a grain of salt.



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Viper1 said:
Max King of the Wild said:

So you think. People also had evidence that protiens carried our genetic material at one point and that atoms were the smallest particle. But we know better now. All I'm saying is you can't say its absolute untill proven and it takes a lot to prove something.

Also, even with the dating it still doesn't disprove religion. Just certain views religions has held at one point (just like science has done to itself so many times before)

And I'm not religious. I love science and truth (biochem major with a minor in philosophy). But I'm not going to be so quick to say "this disproves that or this proves it"

And you'll never hear me say science disrpoves God.  Only it changes perceptions and interpretations.

You are correct that newer information changes previously held scientific data.  But that's also the point of science.  By design it is supposed to be constantly updated.  You could say that science is merely a momentary snapshot of accumulated data.

But as noted by Flash Gordon, even if they were off a little bit, it's not likely that all methods are off by 4.8 billion years....or 65 million (depending on what you are dating)


That's good. It's just that people love to use science as absolute truth and grasp to what the evidence points to... until we observe that view was wrong and then on to the next theory to be absolutely true. (Obviously people won't say science is absolute truth but if you observe how they talk they usually don't acknowledge the possibility of their views or beliefs to be wrong just like religions due)

As for Flash Gordon's statement, he acknowledges science will be off sometimes... yet he still seems to believe it... funny how usually those people don't allow the same to religion.



ps3-sales! said:
As for the Carbon/radiometric dating argument: I'm not a sponge. I don't just suck up all the information given to me and spew them back at people as facts. I like to do my own research mixed in with a little common sense here and there. I realize that you can approximate the age of a rock based on layers of earth fading away caused by erosion. But nobody will ever convince me that you can say that a certain rock or fossil is 65 million years old. What makes 60 million different from 80 million? They are all estimating. They don't know exactly. So always take the scientist's with a grain of salt.

Then do some research. Dating isn't based upon erosion of the Earth. You don't understand the process.



ps3-sales! said:
KHlover said:
mai said:
ps3-sales! said:

And for the fossil records, I find it impossible for me to believe that scientists can tell you how many millions of years old a rock is. That just sounds stupid. I know they have their equations and tests and what not, but still.

Radiometric dating for instance.

Cannot even take OP seriosuly. Your parents must be some christian fundamentalists.

 

I don't want to insult OP or anything, but "If your comment critizes my religious views without any good input, I have no problem reporting it and hopfully the mods take care of it. " worries me a bit, as ANY opposing opinion can very easily be interpretet as "critizising his religious views without any good input". The various contradictions in his post make it very easy to contradict him, so I hope this thread isn't just a trap. 

No this has been going great!!! I only said that so there was no bashing, and their hasn't been. I've read all of the comments and opinions and it's facinating to see how others think about this topic. 

As for the Carbon/radiometric dating argument: I'm not a sponge. I don't just suck up all the information given to me and spew them back at people as facts. I like to do my own research mixed in with a little common sense here and there. I realize that you can approximate the age of a rock based on layers of earth fading away caused by erosion. But nobody will ever convince me that you can say that a certain rock or fossil is 65 million years old. What makes 60 million different from 80 million? They are all estimating. They don't know exactly. So always take the scientist's with a grain of salt.


Great to hear that^^ I was just concerned about that statement of yours since people sometimes can really be incredibly mean on vgchartz, so using a thread as a flamebait is nothing impossible. I'm glad you clarified things with your new post. 



ps3-sales! said:
KHlover said:
mai said:
ps3-sales! said:

And for the fossil records, I find it impossible for me to believe that scientists can tell you how many millions of years old a rock is. That just sounds stupid. I know they have their equations and tests and what not, but still.

Radiometric dating for instance.

Cannot even take OP seriosuly. Your parents must be some christian fundamentalists.

 

I don't want to insult OP or anything, but "If your comment critizes my religious views without any good input, I have no problem reporting it and hopfully the mods take care of it. " worries me a bit, as ANY opposing opinion can very easily be interpretet as "critizising his religious views without any good input". The various contradictions in his post make it very easy to contradict him, so I hope this thread isn't just a trap. 

No this has been going great!!! I only said that so there was no bashing, and their hasn't been. I've read all of the comments and opinions and it's facinating to see how others think about this topic. 

As for the Carbon/radiometric dating argument: I'm not a sponge. I don't just suck up all the information given to me and spew them back at people as facts. I like to do my own research mixed in with a little common sense here and there. I realize that you can approximate the age of a rock based on layers of earth fading away caused by erosion. But nobody will ever convince me that you can say that a certain rock or fossil is 65 million years old. What makes 60 million different from 80 million? They are all estimating. They don't know exactly. So always take the scientist's with a grain of salt.

See, that's the thing with humans, we don't like unanswered questions, so we must slap a label on it until otherwise disproven. Just like right now, if I make a statement of "we are not alone in the universe, there are other intelligent life forms out there that are on equal grouns or far surpass us." but you can't say I'm wrong unless/until you can disprove it. I can make the exactly reverse statement of "we are alone in the universe, we are the pinnacle of all life forms when it comes to self awareness and intelligence" and you can't say I'm wrong unless/until you can disprove it. It's the same with fossils or God, if you can't disprove it, you are not wrong, and anything goes. You can basically come to the conclusion that we humans constantly live in the land of fantasy until we finally figure out facts like the Earth is actually a rough sphere and disproved the flat land theory.

Until proven or disproven with hard facts, it's all bullshit, that includes most of the things in the bible and God, and how dinosaurs used to look like in full color. The important thing is, are you doing the good deeds that the bible is telling you to do? Did the 10 commendment from Moses reach you? Are you nice? :) That's where it counts.



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ps3-sales! said:

No this has been going great!!! I only said that so there was no bashing, and their hasn't been. I've read all of the comments and opinions and it's facinating to see how others think about this topic. 

As for the Carbon/radiometric dating argument: I'm not a sponge. I don't just suck up all the information given to me and spew them back at people as facts. I like to do my own research mixed in with a little common sense here and there. I realize that you can approximate the age of a rock based on layers of earth fading away caused by erosion. But nobody will ever convince me that you can say that a certain rock or fossil is 65 million years old. What makes 60 million different from 80 million? They are all estimating. They don't know exactly. So always take the scientist's with a grain of salt.

Even if the dating were off by a few million years, that's still far older than the Bible suggests it is, right?

And as noted, tehre are several methods to date things.  Whether erosion was one of the older and first methods used.  It's a lot more high tech now.   And with several different methods all concluding approximately same thing, it's hard to ignore that data or brush it off.

Note how scientists already use date ranges.   They don't say 65,632,129 years and 3 months.   They use "65 million years ago" as the accepted date range that all known methods of date verification have concluded.  Keep in mind, 1 million years is still a very huge range.  So 65 million to 65, 999,999 and 12 months gives them a lot of range to work with.

Another thing to think about.  It's not like some scientists said, "I want dinosaurs to have died out 65 million years ago.  Let's figure out a test to confirm that".   Instead they took methods and means that were already established to come up with that date.   My point is they didn't just pick a date they wanted first like a lot of people think they did.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

ps3-sales! said:
KHlover said:
mai said:
ps3-sales! said:

And for the fossil records, I find it impossible for me to believe that scientists can tell you how many millions of years old a rock is. That just sounds stupid. I know they have their equations and tests and what not, but still.

Radiometric dating for instance.

Cannot even take OP seriosuly. Your parents must be some christian fundamentalists.

 

I don't want to insult OP or anything, but "If your comment critizes my religious views without any good input, I have no problem reporting it and hopfully the mods take care of it. " worries me a bit, as ANY opposing opinion can very easily be interpretet as "critizising his religious views without any good input". The various contradictions in his post make it very easy to contradict him, so I hope this thread isn't just a trap. 

No this has been going great!!! I only said that so there was no bashing, and their hasn't been. I've read all of the comments and opinions and it's facinating to see how others think about this topic. 

As for the Carbon/radiometric dating argument: I'm not a sponge. I don't just suck up all the information given to me and spew them back at people as facts. I like to do my own research mixed in with a little common sense here and there. I realize that you can approximate the age of a rock based on layers of earth fading away caused by erosion. But nobody will ever convince me that you can say that a certain rock or fossil is 65 million years old. What makes 60 million different from 80 million? They are all estimating. They don't know exactly. So always take the scientist's with a grain of salt.


If you are geniunely interested in learning about these things, look up Isochron Dating. It's a process designed to eliminate as many assumptions as possibly when dating rocks. When you consider that different isotypes from different rocks, with the tests performed by different groups of scientists all produce very close results, you must consider it's unlikely it's all guess work or luck.

And even if you don't accept that that really works, there are simple dating mechanisms like counting varves that put the earth at a minimum of millions of years old.

As for men being related to chimps... the evidence for a specific human chromosome (can't remember which one) being a fusion of 2 chromosomes found in chimps is strong evidence for a common ancestor. And then Retroviruses. These copy their genome into a host genome and can be passed on to descendants. Retrogenes in the same chromosome position indicate common ancestry, and there are numerous shared retrovirus insertions between chimps and humans.



Viper1 and mevildan summed up what I was going to say pretty well, but to those who keep mentioning that these theories aren't proven and use that to discredit the argument the theory is showing, as a Mathamatics university student, it is exceptionally hard to actually prove something, you just say it you accept the new theory. Just my input.



Christianity and Evolution dont go against eachother. Neither does physics and science.



ps3-sales! said:

Okay so I have a topic that I've been wondering recentley. Before I start, let me say that I am a Christian. I believe in my religion fully, but don't like to beat people down with bibles. I will share my beliefs however, as I also love to hear others share what others believe. In the end, I believe that my religion will get me into heaven, just as others believe theirs (unless atheist) will get them into heaven. So this isn't a thread to nessesarily debate your religious views. But because I'm talking about Adam and Eve, this is more of a Christian opinion. 

Okay. So I problem is figuring out the timeline of the Earth according to Christian beliefs. Obviously, we believe in creationism and not evolution. However, it is a fact that dinosaurs existed. With that said, when did they come into play? I'm not looking for years, because I don't believe that the Earth has been here for millions/billions of year, I'm just looking for a connection. According to Christians, Adam/Eve were the first people. They were born naked (in bible) and stood upright. But what about "cavemen"? And to my knowledge the animals in the bible were similar to the animals of today. But where were the dinosaurs? Did they exist in a different part of the world????

If your comment critizes my religious views without any good input, I have no problem reporting it and hopfully the mods take care of it. 

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this issue. Again let me stress that I really don't want this to turn into an argument. Just curious to see what everyone thinks about it. 

There lies your biggest problem, and if you don't solve that one, you'll probably never going to accept other knowledge that requires a bigger time lapse than the one in the Bible.

For example, according to the Bible Matusaleah lived 969 years, you need to realize that certain things said in the Bible must not be taken literally.

And, finally, we do not come from monkeys, if anything we would share a common ancestor with apes (the ones that doesn't have a tail, like a gorilla or an orangutan), but as Viper1 said, is just a theory, one that I happen to believe more than Creationism.