Ok, then those companies leave the state and move somewhere that will give them tax loopholes.

End result, lost jobs, hurt economy, even less money gained in taxes.

Every minute that pass by without an agreement is already hurting the economy. It is just waiting till the first 'blame them' articles/comments will come up..

ALL the Bush tax cuts have to expire. All of them.

People think they can have a big military, healthcare programs that don't ration out care like they do in Europe, and all the other investments and spending the government does with taxes at a 60 year low? Fuck outta here with that bullshit. If people aren't going to accept the cuts necessary to keep taxes low, then they have to go up. The rates, specifically--tax reform is useless on it's own, as our bought and paid for Congress can just add new exemptions later. That's the only reason the Republicans keep hiding behind that argument.

I, for one, am damn tired of people pretending the 90's and it's economic growth while tax rates were higher didn't exist. It's just greed and willful ignorance keeping taxes where they are--from both politicians and the voters. Pretending we can keep this charade up forever won't fix our fiscal problems.

Frankly, I don't trust either party on this issue. Obama has already said he wants to lower Corporate rates (despite what companies actually pay being a lot less already) and keep 98% of the Bush tax cuts permanent. When there's only a 2% difference on policy, it's hard to stomach when the president and Democrats pretend to be the adults in the room. The real debate should be about when to get rid of the tax cuts, not which ones (if any).

I think your partisanship is leading you to not understand the resistance to Obama's plan ...

I don't remember the numbers off the top of my head, and they have probably changed since I heard them anyways, but the democrats plan to deal with the $1+ trillion deficit is $98 billion in tax increases, that probably won't be realized (due to a wide variety of factors), and increased spending has already spoken for the majority of that money. In other words a completely meaningless gesture.

To put these numbers into household terms, suppose you have a family that is building $1,000 worth of debt every month and one partner's plan is to work a little over-time to get $100 and has already signed up to a gym membership that will cost $80/month starting next month. Do you think that plan represents acting like a "mature adult"?

-|--------|---------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------|-----------------
Rep ---Dem ---Fiscal----------------------------------------------------------------------No---------- -----------Pay off debt ---------
plan - plan----cliff--------------------------------------------------------------------- deficit ---------------within our lifetime----

The above is why I'd love to see a default. I don't see how things could be much worse. Hoping the Republicans can stick it out much as I dislike them.

Republicans is the house are having a civil war, So yes. If they brought up the bill that tax's people over 250,000 and keeps the bush tax rates for people under, it would pass. However john boehner don't want to lose his speakership, so it won't come up for a vote. This is all republican bull. Sorry but it is.

Only reason republicans have the house is because they heavily redrew the congressional districts in there favor. What a joke.

I already said I don't like the Democrats plan either--for the same exact reasons you just said. Did you not read my post?

I consider obama a moderate republican. Either way we have 2016 to look foward too. Also Harry Reid has been doing a better job of nailing the issues.

 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/27/harry-reid-john-boehner-fiscal-cliff_n_2370269.html

America needs to stop being so damn egocentric, and have a look at other countries, and how they handle tax.

We in Australia pay more tax than Americans do. We also only have something like 10% of our GDP in public debt, compared with over 100% in America. What does that mean? It means that Australia could conceivably pay off its entire public debt in one year, whereas America doesn't even have enough economic strength to do that if it were able to magically take every single dollar from the economy for a year (without screwing up the economy along the way) and give it all to those who own America's public debt.

Other countries have even higher tax rates than Australia, and are also strong economies that, per capita, easily outshine America. The Scandinavian countries are a good example of this.

One of the big problems with America is this absurd irrational fear of socialism. Now, I agree with most people that actual socialism is a bad idea - proven by China, Russia, and a number of other countries (all of which have corruption and repression issues far beyond that of western nations), but what Americans think of socialism is also known as "good governance".

For instance, the public option for healthcare. Here in Australia, we have a strong public health system... supplemented with a private health system. The public health system is restricted in what it can provide, leaving plenty of room for the private system to make plenty of profits - but the public system acts as a buffer on the private system, to ensure that prices don't get unsustainably high. Now, there ARE issues with our health system, but it still easily outshines America's health system.

America should be looking to find the best systems throughout the world and implement them all. Instead, Americans bemoan the idea of "becoming like ". Whether that country is France, Germany, Greece, or Norway, it always seems to be that this absurd notion that America is the "greatest country in the world" is getting in the way of America becoming a better country.

And until Americans are brought to understand the truth about the situation, politicians will continue simply kicking the can down the road while increasing your debt and getting better deals for multimillionaires at the expense of the rest of the country.

This "Fiscal Cliff" is really nothing more than smoke and mirrors.

That one sentence pretty much sums up everything I hate about our current fiscal situation, and many others.