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Forums - Politics Discussion - Economic inequality biggest reason for violence. Not gun laws.

Kasz216 on 18 December 2012
nuckles87 said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:
Go communism...?

You know....there's  a middle ground between what we have now, and communism. It's called the United States 50 years ago, when CEOs were paid 30 times the amount of an average worker, rather then 380 times, and when people moved up through a company rather than sitting in the same position at the same pay for 15 years as many workers do today.

Also, this: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/us/harder-for-americans-to-rise-from-lower-rungs.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


Here's a question.

How big was your average company 50 years ago vs today... how many countries did they usually operate in, and how many products did they make?

 

Every consider at least part of the reason CEO pay is so big now is because companies are far, far bigger today then they were 50 years ago with far more concerns?


Meanwhile your average assembly guys job hasn't changed?   In fact, when you consider he makes a much smaller part of the company, argueably his job has become less important.

A real measure would be "CEO Pay vs Total amount paid in salaries."

Why would a company CEO who managed 2 factories in the past, get paid the same as one who owns 4 in the present with subsidiaries in multiple countries?

As for the 50 and  200+ number... do you have an actual source on that?    Because as far as i can tell... that's around what it is... for 35 of the top fortune 50 companies.   IE nowhere near your average CEO.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2012/ceo-pay-ratios/

 

 

Additionally, research tends to show that economic mobility in the US has stood still, not shrunk... and in fact this is do to cultural changes.  Not buisness related ones.

It's things like the rich marrying the rich.

 

Also... read your entire article... as it mentions many many other reasons for issues in economic mobility.  Like are stupidly huge prison population.



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zumnupy10 on 18 December 2012

Sweeden and Finland in this chart prove how difficult is to reach a conclusion if income inequality really means higher violence rates.

Different countries and societies have different reasons for violence to increase or fall. There is no absolute truth about this matter.



Mr Khan on 18 December 2012
zumnupy10 said:
Sweeden and Finland in this chart prove how difficult is to reach a conclusion if income inequality really means higher violence rates.

Different countries and societies have different reasons for violence to increase or fall. There is no absolute truth about this matter.

The key is that it has a lot to do with homogeneity. Societies that have a lot of "otherness" whether this is economic, religious, or ethnic, are going to have more violence than countries that don't. Japan, for instance, has rock-bottom gun ownership rates and rock-bottom crime rates, due to a perceived larger degree of homogeneity (although the Japanese like to believe that they're more homogenous than they actually are, but that belief plays a positive rule in minimizing internal strife).



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

zumnupy10 on 18 December 2012
Mr Khan said:
zumnupy10 said:
Sweeden and Finland in this chart prove how difficult is to reach a conclusion if income inequality really means higher violence rates.

Different countries and societies have different reasons for violence to increase or fall. There is no absolute truth about this matter.

The key is that it has a lot to do with homogeneity. Societies that have a lot of "otherness" whether this is economic, religious, or ethnic, are going to have more violence than countries that don't. Japan, for instance, has rock-bottom gun ownership rates and rock-bottom crime rates, due to a perceived larger degree of homogeneity (although the Japanese like to believe that they're more homogenous than they actually are, but that belief plays a positive rule in minimizing internal strife).

Totally agree with this theory. Diversity plays a big role in every merit or problem of a society, including violence.

And it's the reason I say that most comparisons between countries make no sense. They don't take in consideration factors like migration and multi-cultural societies. Numbers are cold.



weaveworld on 18 December 2012

Interesting to discuss.
A lot of suicide bombers are in it for the money their family gets. Hard to survey ofcourse but it seems people would refrain from doing that if they wouldn't be as poor as they are.

Someone said that the top-people making millions is justified? Why would someone even need millions each year? Decadence is no virtue you know...



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Marks on 18 December 2012
NinjaguyDan said:
Marks said:
spaceguy said:
the_dengle said:
You're right, all wealth should be redistributed completely evenly so that there is no such thing as economic inequality. Then there would be no violence! Problem solved.



No one said that. Just pay people better, You know a living wage. Not peanuts. The CEO's don't need to make 200 million a year and yes they do with stock options. Thats how they hide what they make. It will say 25 million on pay but with stock options it's way higher.

It's not a all or nothing approach. It's not being a greedy f--k. The tops that make that type of money and want more is a disease, not a good business man but someone who has a mental issue.  I would never need that much and if I did I would be Like bill gates and work full time to make sure my money was helping thousands of people but one person can't do it. Goverments have to do it.


Why should a guy down on the assembly line with no skills at all, who could replaced at the snap of a finger, be arbitrarily paid more than he is worth? And okay let's bash CEO's...you think you could run a fortune 500 company? I know I couldn't. They have a unique set of skills that makes them worth the millions they are paid, and they look after and create thousands of jobs and contribute hugely to society through job creation and paying taxes. 

No, the real problem is people sense of entitlement. People aren't happy unless they have what everyone else has. Guess what, greed isn't something only found in rich people, you don't think poor people are greedy? Economic inequality is no excuse for violence.

WOW!  So much fail.


Want to know what is a pyramid scheme? Social security. Hmm new "investors" paying in to finance "earlier investors"....

If it's Bernie Madoff it's an illegal pyramid scheme...if it's the US government it's social security. 



Kasz216 on 18 December 2012
weaveworld said:
Interesting to discuss.
A lot of suicide bombers are in it for the money their family gets. Hard to survey ofcourse but it seems people would refrain from doing that if they wouldn't be as poor as they are.

Someone said that the top-people making millions is justified? Why would someone even need millions each year? Decadence is no virtue you know...


Practically nobody in the developed world makes a salary that's "justified" based on that scale.

Hell, everyone on this website has the interent, and plays videogames while people starve.



Kasz216 on 18 December 2012
Mr Khan said:
zumnupy10 said:
Sweeden and Finland in this chart prove how difficult is to reach a conclusion if income inequality really means higher violence rates.

Different countries and societies have different reasons for violence to increase or fall. There is no absolute truth about this matter.

The key is that it has a lot to do with homogeneity. Societies that have a lot of "otherness" whether this is economic, religious, or ethnic, are going to have more violence than countries that don't. Japan, for instance, has rock-bottom gun ownership rates and rock-bottom crime rates, due to a perceived larger degree of homogeneity (although the Japanese like to believe that they're more homogenous than they actually are, but that belief plays a positive rule in minimizing internal strife).

Not sure how big a factor that is in Finland compaired to say... Spain.

 

Either way, graph is really starting to bug me, since the USA is a clear outlier, and is the clear driver of the numbers... so i pulled out my old statistics program and ran the numbers myself... or at least... I want to.... But i can't seem to find remotely matchig data.

It looks like it lists Portugals homicde rate at ~35 per million.   When the Data I can find shows Portugals murder rate at 12 Per million.  So... I'm kinda confused where they go their data from.

 

They have Sweeden at 20... when it should be more like 10... 

 

Norway has less income inequality then Japan.... What the heck kind of numbrers are they useing?



weaveworld on 18 December 2012
Kasz216 said:
weaveworld said:
Interesting to discuss.
A lot of suicide bombers are in it for the money their family gets. Hard to survey ofcourse but it seems people would refrain from doing that if they wouldn't be as poor as they are.

Someone said that the top-people making millions is justified? Why would someone even need millions each year? Decadence is no virtue you know...


Practically nobody in the developed world makes a salary that's "justified" based on that scale.

Hell, everyone on this website has the interent, and plays videogames while people starve.

Furthermore, check this one please

http://www.globalrichlist.com/