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Forums - Politics Discussion - Victory for the Constitution... in Illinois?!

Soleron said:

This is incredibly biased. Next time just state the ruling and outcome. If you care to put an opinion, do if afterwards and make clear it's your own.

"So its nice that law abiding citizens will finally be able to defend themselves from criminals."

"Unfortunately, as is the chicago way, their felons... er im mean politicians, will still do what ever the possibly can to keep the citizens from defending themselves from crime."

"The theoretical and empirical evidence (which overall is inconclusive) is consistent with concluding that a right to carry firearms in public may promote self-defense." Contradiction.

The US currently bans possession of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, for the sole reason that they can only be used to kill and injure people. Why does this not apply to guns (assuming the hunting and recreational practices get permits)?


--

Have you considered that maybe the constitution is wrong, outdated and needs to be changed? Is the only valid interpretation of that language that i) EVERYONE, in a militia or not, can bear arms and ii) absolutely no controls can be imposed in it?

If the studies are inconclusive then maybe do some more studies on it?

i made the thread of course its going to have my opionion in it. i then gave a link to a news article with their take on it. but i only cared about mine so i wrote my opinion.

as for the bold thatt o is unconstitutional. the constitution isnt about hunting. its about defending ourselves from tyranny whether that come from an individual or the government. citizens should be as a well armed as the government. even so guns have numerous more purposes and uses than say a nuke.

 

and the constitution cant be wrong, its our laws. if you dont like it, ammend it. until then our right to bear arms shall not be infringed.



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Are you also Christian max?



Mr Khan said:
badgenome said:
Soleron said:

 

The US currently bans possession of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, for the sole reason that they can only be used to kill and injure people. Why does this not apply to guns (assuming the hunting and recreational practices get permits)?

Really? I thought they were banned because they were weapons of mass destruction and not instruments of self defense.

Nuclear weapons could be the ultimate weapon of self-defence. "Don't loiter in front of my diner or i'll kill every last one of us."

It's only defending his private property, after all.

if you cause harm to innocents, then you are committing a crime. so unless you could launch a nuke and insure noone, or their property got damaged besides the criminal imediately threatening your life, you would be breaking the law.

owning a nuke in and of its self should not be illegal. if someone wants to spend like a half a billion of their own dollars, to hire some nuclear scientists to make a nuke, with pretty much would be impossible to hide, so everyone and their mom would know you have it. and obviously the government would be keeping an eye on you. you should be able to have a nuke. if nukes were legal to own, the people who would spend the money and go through the legal pathways to obtain one, they wont be doing any crime.



theprof00 said:
Are you also Christian max?

More or less.



Mr Khan said:
badgenome said:
Soleron said:

Self-defence is consistent with "only be used to injure people". Every other use can be applied for. It's not restricting anyone's right to possess a gun except for the purpose of wanting to kill people with it.

Nerve gas can presumably be used in self-defence as well.

I was stunned for a second that you really don't see a difference between nerve gas and a handgun, but I forgot that self-defense wasn't considered legitimate in modern Britain beyond perhaps bleeding on your assailant (though not to excess). Cultural difference, I suppose.

All in the name of freedom, of course. If law-abiding citizens had access to F-15's, nuclear submarines, ICBMs, tanks, and chemical and biological weapons, then government would think twice before making us pay for someone else's birth control.


first of all those things cost tens of millions to hundreds of millions of dollars to build and good louck finding someone who would build it for you, as currently the companies that do are contracted by the government to build them. so not only would you not have someone to build them, but if you somehow could, good luck not having everybody know you do.

ps: im fairly certain you can own an f-15, its just has to be rendered inoperable.

any way your whole premise is idiotic. we are talking about guns not nukes. the weapons you mentioned are already illegal, those have not been and are not a threat to anybody.

citizens should have the right (we do) be be as well armed as the us government 



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killerzX said:
Soleron said:

...

i made the thread of course its going to have my opionion in it. i then gave a link to a news article with their take on it. but i only cared about mine so i wrote my opinion.

I was just saying, clearly seperate the story quote/link and your opinion.

as for the bold thatt o is unconstitutional. the constitution isnt about hunting. its about defending ourselves from tyranny whether that come from an individual or the government. citizens should be as a well armed as the government. even so guns have numerous more purposes and uses than say a nuke.

The words are ambiguous. You know that. The most obvious reading of the words doesn't tell us anything about gun laws.

and the constitution cant be wrong, its our laws.

No. Laws can be wrong.

if you dont like it, ammend it. until then our right to bear arms shall not be infringed.

According to ONE, and not even the most literal, interpretation. The Court is making a politically motivated reading, that is undeniable.


--

Max I cannot ever agree with you, and I hope your version of morality doesn't become the majority in my country.



killerzX said:
Mr Khan said:
badgenome said:
Soleron said:

Self-defence is consistent with "only be used to injure people". Every other use can be applied for. It's not restricting anyone's right to possess a gun except for the purpose of wanting to kill people with it.

Nerve gas can presumably be used in self-defence as well.

I was stunned for a second that you really don't see a difference between nerve gas and a handgun, but I forgot that self-defense wasn't considered legitimate in modern Britain beyond perhaps bleeding on your assailant (though not to excess). Cultural difference, I suppose.

All in the name of freedom, of course. If law-abiding citizens had access to F-15's, nuclear submarines, ICBMs, tanks, and chemical and biological weapons, then government would think twice before making us pay for someone else's birth control.


first of all those things cost tens of millions to hundreds of millions of dollars to build and good louck finding someone who would build it for you, as currently the companies that do are contracted by the government to build them. so not only would you not have someone to build them, but if you somehow could, good luck not having everybody know you do.

ps: im fairly certain you can own an f-15, its just has to be rendered inoperable.

any way your whole premise is idiotic. we are talking about guns not nukes. the weapons you mentioned are already illegal, those have not been and are not a threat to anybody.

citizens should have the right (we do) be be as well armed as the us government 

In no way do the citizens have the right to be as well armed as the government. The most basic function of a state is to have a monopoly on legitimate use of force. It can commission its citizenry to have limited ability to use force in self-defense cases, but if the people are as well armed as the state, there is anarchy by default.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Soleron said:

 

 

Max I cannot ever agree with you, and I hope your version of morality doesn't become the majority in my country.

The use same force concept is the dumbest shit I've ever heard. So me being 5'9" and 150 lbs can only use my fist against a 6'4" 280lbs MMA fighter LOL



Soleron said:
killerzX said:
Soleron said:

...

i made the thread of course its going to have my opionion in it. i then gave a link to a news article with their take on it. but i only cared about mine so i wrote my opinion.

I was just saying, clearly seperate the story quote/link and your opinion.

if your qualms were that that wasnt a clear distiction of my opinion and the linked article, i apoligize.

as for the bold thatt o is unconstitutional. the constitution isnt about hunting. its about defending ourselves from tyranny whether that come from an individual or the government. citizens should be as a well armed as the government. even so guns have numerous more purposes and uses than say a nuke.

The words are ambiguous. You know that. The most obvious reading of the words doesn't tell us anything about gun laws.

the words of the 2 amendment? no its pretty clear

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" meaning inorder to be able to form a militia, People are garunteed the right to arms.

penn jillete on the 2A: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MATTUiz2TKc

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MATTUiz2TKc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

and the constitution cant be wrong, its our laws.

No. Laws can be wrong.

morally? if so i agree.

if you dont like it, ammend it. until then our right to bear arms shall not be infringed.

According to ONE, and not even the most literal, interpretation. The Court is making a politically motivated reading, that is undeniable.

according to the exact words of the 2A


--

Max I cannot ever agree with you, and I hope your version of morality doesn't become the majority in my country.





Mr Khan said:
killerzX said:
Mr Khan said:
badgenome said:
Soleron said:

Self-defence is consistent with "only be used to injure people". Every other use can be applied for. It's not restricting anyone's right to possess a gun except for the purpose of wanting to kill people with it.

Nerve gas can presumably be used in self-defence as well.

I was stunned for a second that you really don't see a difference between nerve gas and a handgun, but I forgot that self-defense wasn't considered legitimate in modern Britain beyond perhaps bleeding on your assailant (though not to excess). Cultural difference, I suppose.

All in the name of freedom, of course. If law-abiding citizens had access to F-15's, nuclear submarines, ICBMs, tanks, and chemical and biological weapons, then government would think twice before making us pay for someone else's birth control.


first of all those things cost tens of millions to hundreds of millions of dollars to build and good louck finding someone who would build it for you, as currently the companies that do are contracted by the government to build them. so not only would you not have someone to build them, but if you somehow could, good luck not having everybody know you do.

ps: im fairly certain you can own an f-15, its just has to be rendered inoperable.

any way your whole premise is idiotic. we are talking about guns not nukes. the weapons you mentioned are already illegal, those have not been and are not a threat to anybody.

citizens should have the right (we do) be be as well armed as the us government 

In no way do the citizens have the right to be as well armed as the government. The most basic function of a state is to have a monopoly on legitimate use of force. It can commission its citizenry to have limited ability to use force in self-defense cases, but if the people are as well armed as the state, there is anarchy by default.

that is fundamently untrue. if what you said was true, then our country would exist. there was this thing called the revelutionary war. they fought the powerful military force in the world. and this is exactly why we have the second amendment. do you read from our founding fathers? just by reading of few of their writings makes it abundently clear, that what you just said is patently false.

here's a pretty funny take on the second amendment

http://patriotaction.net/profiles/blogs/a-novel-idea-register-nongun