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Forums - General Discussion - Networking = Cheating

Mr Khan said:

More or less self-explanatory thread (or, Mr Khan's job-searching rant thread number three).

Networking is cheating. It's modern-day croneyism built into a system that favors insiders and people who know people, heavily favoring so-called "type A" personalities and more extroverted individuals, and overlooking any individuals who worked hard to get where they were but weren't born with a silver spoon in their mouths or didn't room with the right guy in college.

When someone gets a job by networking, a more deserving person loses out. Therefore, networking to get a job is cheating, and sites like LinkedIn should be outlawed.

Actually, what you see going on today is that companies have systems out there that look to completely eliminate the human element from the hiring process, and with that, a degree of comfort level people have in who they know.  About the only way one can genuinely see someone and properly evaluate who they are is by knowing who they are.  Anything else ends up with people gaming the system by meeting certain benchmarks that are called upon, even if they don't have substance.  A human network is meant to screen and qualify people, and who you know organically is how things work.

This being said, what is said as "networking" today doesn't even involve who you know personally.  What it involves is people who can get themselves in social networks and plugged in anywhere, who happens to get known.  And they position themself so their work is seen.  It involves using COMPUTER networks, and odds are you don't even really see anyone at all.

Ok, let me tell you my story on how I found work, and went about things.  

I happen to end up applying everywhere, getting into systems everywhere including Kelly.   I got background check cleared and end up missing a wave of hiring.  Well, add this to a hell of a story and I ended up contacting a local reported who does local economic news about my situation, and it was an interesting enough story, he felt I had a story, so I was to meet him at a job fair.  Well, between that time, and when I met him, I found out I was approved for hiring by Kelly and a new wave of hiring.  Then the story because how I got a job, and I made the front page of the local paper.  My making the local paper had NOTHING to do with me getting hired actually.

What is the case here is, yes people who are shy will have issues.  If you can't stand making contact with new people, you aren't going to be seen.  BUT, being able to have people work with you, and being known for things, positions yourself as a solution people will think of when the need to hire.  You need to deliver in these cases, so how people think of you matters.  And you have to apply or be known about something.  You do have to get out there and connect with people and do things they can see you as an answer and recommend.  You do have to meet the minimum standards they need at least, and then be the best among the people they know.

In my case, on the boardgame side, it wasn't an A-type personality that got me to the top of the Hotness list on Boardgame Geek in September 2012. What it was is having a really, really bad boardgame and asking about what was worse, and blogging some about what I do.  I make myself known for anyone who cares.  The game rose to #4 on the Hotness list (list of website activity).  I also got several games published in a magazine by reaching out a publisher to consider what I did, sending a list of my games also, and then getting two games in there.    I make a point to reach out to people and make myself known before there is any need.  And that is what is meant by networking.  It means being a competent person who can get along with others.  You want it to be when people see you, they genuinely remember who you are and find you.  They know of you before they need you.  That is real networking.  In my case, I am a competent enough designer apparently, that stuff I have done ended up in a book, and several of my games were referenced by others in designs thy did.  I do work in an obscure area though, but my goals is to do things bigger, not just make me, and get a job.

The best person on the planet at something who is not known, might as well be dead, because it is like they aren't available.

So, what I can say is this, for networking: Get known, by being competent and interesting and reaching out.



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Are you telling me that every single person who's ever had a job, only did so through networking?

Obviously, in the world of politics, who you are is more important than your skillset, but in the real world the balance is far more equal. In my time, I've held 5 jobs. 2 were through "who I know", 3 were through my own graft.

When I applied for my current job (at HSBC), I was also applying for another one at ConocoPhillips (at the time, they were one entity). I got through to the final stage at ConocoPhillips (and met the person who beat me to the job - he was a nice, confident, guy, and clearly far better suited for it than me)... either way, I've had a lot of interviews with major corporations... you know what they were most interested in? My fucking part-time job at McDonald's.

That's right, I got through to the final stage with one major company, and got a job with another... because of my time at McDonald's. They didn't care about who my parents were, what friends I had, which schools I went to... nepotism is mostly a fantasy.

Do some people get jobs because of who they know? Sure. I'd wager dollars to donuts that this is more prevalent in your beloved state, however. Companies don't do grow to billions in revenues because they hire their friends. They're at these sizes because they know how to hire the right people.

If you're undeservered sense of entitlement gets through into your applications and interviews, I wouldn't hire you either.



Mr Khan said:
kowenicki said:

Forgive me. EXPLETIVE!

It's one of a set of skills that you need to be able to function in the modern business world.

If you can't communicate on a personal level then yes you are at a disadvantage. So hey.... Why not put yourself out there and learn.

I wasn't the best in the social business environment either, but I put myself out of my comfort zone and got on with it.

If you think everyone networking is comfortable then you are extremely naive.

Being qualified is less than half the requirement in my experience.

Your problem becomes more apparent by the day, you are negative and it's all someone else's fault.

I wouldn't hire you either. Get over yourself, the world owes you nothing.

 

rant response to rant thread over.

The world owes me a job. Not a great job, but not a job that's exploiting me (as too many seem to want to do).

There i said it.

The world owes you nothing.  The world is what it is.  It doesn't owe anyone anything, it just exists.  Now, does one want to say that it would be good, and morally right, that there be an effort to help everyone find work, and that one should work and there is a duty to serve when they can?  If you want to frame it that way, that is on the right track.  But, what do you think work is?  Work is solving problems for other people with resources you have.  People trust you with their time and money to fix things, and want you to deliver.  It is solving problems.  Exactly what problems can you solve?  If yoy can't communicate this, and people don't know what you can do, how are they supposed to give you any tasks?  This is tasks whether you are paid for it or not.  And blast it, you are to be exploited.  Exploiting is utilizing to maximum advantage.  You want to get exploited, but also get compensated for it.    Anyone who does anything gets exploited.  You just need to negotiate properly here.  If you can't do that, then you have issues.

You need to manage your life here, and get going with things.  I will contact you off this chat here.  I want to discuss some things for you.  Look for my message.



SamuelRSmith said:
Are you telling me that every single person who's ever had a job, only did so through networking?

Obviously, in the world of politics, who you are is more important than your skillset, but in the real world the balance is far more equal. In my time, I've held 5 jobs. 2 were through "who I know", 3 were through my own graft.

When I applied for my current job (at HSBC), I was also applying for another one at ConocoPhillips (at the time, they were one entity). I got through to the final stage at ConocoPhillips (and met the person who beat me to the job - he was a nice, confident, guy, and clearly far better suited for it than me)... either way, I've had a lot of interviews with major corporations... you know what they were most interested in? My fucking part-time job at McDonald's.

That's right, I got through to the final stage with one major company, and got a job with another... because of my time at McDonald's. They didn't care about who my parents were, what friends I had, which schools I went to... nepotism is mostly a fantasy.

Do some people get jobs because of who they know? Sure. I'd wager dollars to donuts that this is more prevalent in your beloved state, however. Companies don't do grow to billions in revenues because they hire their friends. They're at these sizes because they know how to hire the right people.

If you're undeservered sense of entitlement gets through into your applications and interviews, I wouldn't hire you either.

Sue me for thinking me and my fellow people deserve better than what we sometimes get.

I would sincerely doubt i sound too arrogant or self-entitled in interviews. If anything, i leave too much out, largely because i believe other people don't care to be bothered about my accomplishments, so i don't bother them with them.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

This thread has been pretty interesting thanks for this.



Tease.

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geez... did you really think we all studied hard and spend 1000 of hours in bars to widen our network just to have chance to get a good job? let me tell you the secret:

just do what we all did: sleep with someone with connections to get a job...




 

Face the future.. Gamecenter ID: nikkom_nl (oh no he didn't!!) 

NiKKoM said:
geez... did you really think we all studied hard and spend 1000 of hours in bars to widen our network just to have chance to get a good job? let me tell you the secret:

just do what we all did: sleep with someone with connections to get a job...


What is going on now is the personal approach is being replaced by computers.  If you know someone, they policy is for the person to tell the person to end up applying in HR.  It is one big blur with the human touch being thrown out.  Sleeping with someone is being weeded out, as are other things like knowing them from church or whatever.  And also look for standardized tests for people to pass, and also computers screen job banks for buzz words.  Then factor in people in India reading these resumes and contacting the persojn via email about buzzword bingo matches.