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UN Upgrades Palestine to Non-Member Observer State

Forums - Politics Discussion - UN Upgrades Palestine to Non-Member Observer State

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Do you support this move by the UN?

Yes 71 74.74%
 
No 20 21.05%
 
Don't Know / See Results 3 3.16%
 
Total:94
Badassbab said:
Kasz216 said:
maximrace said:
I think they deserve their own state. The jews took away the palestines their land and made their own country on it. Now they act like it is their right to murder the palestines and so on. Letting this happen was one of the biggest mistakes the west ever made. Anyone who supports israel on this one is just a fool and should take some history lessons.

That's... not remotely what happened... that's silly.  If anyone needs a history lesson it's  you.

First off... if anybody took the Palestinian's land it was the UK.  Who took it from the Ottomans... who took it from the Malmulak Egptians (non arabs), who took it from the Kurds, who i beleive took it from the Crusaders?

Either way, the UK negotiated with the Palestinian leadership of the time to let Jewish people move in, in exchange for well... development.  Since the Jewish people moving in were rich, were paying for the land they settled in and were building up the local economy.

The arabs backtracked on the deal, largely because the UK screwed the arabs.

See... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal%E2%80%93Weizmann_Agreement

Then the UK, taking soverignty from the Palestinians allowed Jewish people to BUY land from the Palestinians.  Not steal it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine

UN plan made, Palestinians disagreed, wars happened, the arabs lost and lost a lot of land that way... and here we are.0

 

If you blame anybody.  You don't blame the Jews.  You blame the UK and the greedy palestinian elite, who sold land to make a quick buck. (Many of which are major figures or the fathers of major figures in Palestine.)  All the jews did was buy unincorporated land that people were willing to sell to them after the foreign purchase laws were removed.


I agree in the sense the Arab ruling Elite have a lot to answer for and share a huge responsibility for loss of land but only a fraction of it is down to Jews buying land.  Also you are also omitting some crucial historical events namely-

Mass illegal Jewish immigration particularly from Europe.

The role violent Jewish millitant groups such as Irgun, Haganah and the Stern Gang played in forcing the British hand in their favour.

Unilateral declaration of Independence.

In fact why did the Palestinians turn down the UN partition offer? (It's worth noting the UN was much smaller in number back then and European colonial empires were still around).

TerritoryArab and other population % Arab and otherJewish population % JewishTotal population
Arab State 725,000 99% 10,000 1% 735,000
Jewish State 407,000 45% 498,000 55% 905,000
International 105,000 51% 100,000 49% 205,000
Total 1,237,000 67% 608,000 33% 1,845,000
Data from the Report of UNSCOP – 1947

To claim that one of the more powerful empires of the day was pressured by small insignifcant terrorist groups is silly.  It was more internal British pressure and Lobbying back in Britain then anything as there were Pro Zionist and anti-Zionist politcians in the government who gained and lost power.  Besides, even at their heights... it was the arab groups were doing the same... and usually worse.  The violence started with anti-jewish pogroms in the first place.... and the reason why the White Papers existed was... Arab violence.  So really, illegal immigration only became illegal because of overwhelming arab violence... that unlike a few Israeli terroirst groups was instead a large recognizable part of the population.

If you play the violence game... The jews are still a distant third in blame.

As for the UN Partition plan... your using the wrong figures to begin with.  65% of the Jewish countries land was Jewish majority.  The 55% number was the first plan before changes were made... the final borders went out of there way to cut out any enclaves with majority arab population.

Though even if you want to complain about the Partition plan.... Israel didn't have a vote on it.



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good, hopefully they can go to the ICC and make Israel's war criminals pay at last.



Rath said:
Player1x3 said:
Rath said:
Player1x3 said:
Rath said:
I don't see a problem with this at all. I mean nearly everyone agrees Palestine should eventually be a state - what is the problem in elevating their status to observer state status in the UN?


It totally ignores Israeli sovereignty over palestinian land?

What sovereignity?

They are internationally recognised as occupied territories - Israel does not have any sovereign rights to them. This is why the building of settlements is so controversial, it is essentially an annexation of land which they do not have sovereignity over.

The historical region of Palestine is internationally recognised as the state of Israel. State of Palestine is not recognosed by UN

Two things. Firstly the state of Israel has never been recognised to cover the entire region. Secondly the state of Palestine is now recognised by the UN - that is exactly what this vote was about.


WHen i look at the map of the world or an Atlas, Israeli territory pretty much includes all the Palestinian/Arab regions as well. And Palestine is nowehre near being actually recognized by UN, they aren't even a real member of anything



Player1x3 said:
Rath said:
Player1x3 said:
Rath said:
Player1x3 said:
Rath said:
I don't see a problem with this at all. I mean nearly everyone agrees Palestine should eventually be a state - what is the problem in elevating their status to observer state status in the UN?


It totally ignores Israeli sovereignty over palestinian land?

What sovereignity?

They are internationally recognised as occupied territories - Israel does not have any sovereign rights to them. This is why the building of settlements is so controversial, it is essentially an annexation of land which they do not have sovereignity over.

The historical region of Palestine is internationally recognised as the state of Israel. State of Palestine is not recognosed by UN

Two things. Firstly the state of Israel has never been recognised to cover the entire region. Secondly the state of Palestine is now recognised by the UN - that is exactly what this vote was about.


WHen i look at the map of the world or an Atlas, Israeli territory pretty much includes all the Palestinian/Arab regions as well. And Palestine is nowehre near being actually recognized by UN, they aren't even a real member of anything


Out of interest which Atlas are you looking in? In any case - cartographers do not actually make political decisions.

Also while Palestine is not a full member of the UN, this is recognition of them as a state - the same status as given to the Holy See which is unambigiously a sovereign state.



Rath said:
Player1x3 said:
Rath said:
Player1x3 said:
Rath said:
Player1x3 said:
Rath said:
I don't see a problem with this at all. I mean nearly everyone agrees Palestine should eventually be a state - what is the problem in elevating their status to observer state status in the UN?


It totally ignores Israeli sovereignty over palestinian land?

What sovereignity?

They are internationally recognised as occupied territories - Israel does not have any sovereign rights to them. This is why the building of settlements is so controversial, it is essentially an annexation of land which they do not have sovereignity over.

The historical region of Palestine is internationally recognised as the state of Israel. State of Palestine is not recognosed by UN

Two things. Firstly the state of Israel has never been recognised to cover the entire region. Secondly the state of Palestine is now recognised by the UN - that is exactly what this vote was about.


WHen i look at the map of the world or an Atlas, Israeli territory pretty much includes all the Palestinian/Arab regions as well. And Palestine is nowehre near being actually recognized by UN, they aren't even a real member of anything


Out of interest which Atlas are you looking in? In any case - cartographers do not actually make political decisions.

Also while Palestine is not a full member of the UN, this is recognition of them as a state - the same status as given to the Holy See which is unambigiously a sovereign state.


I look at political maps. And come to think of it, I havnt seen the word Palestine in any world map ever. 

And Vatican is a lot more independet than Palestine could ever hope to be



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RoryGamesFree said:
good, hopefully they can go to the ICC and make Israel's war criminals pay at last.


lol. you cant be serious.

the only nation in that region that actually gives a damn about human rights.



Player1x3 said:
Rath said:
Player1x3 said:
Rath said:
Player1x3 said:
Rath said:
Player1x3 said:
Rath said:
I don't see a problem with this at all. I mean nearly everyone agrees Palestine should eventually be a state - what is the problem in elevating their status to observer state status in the UN?


It totally ignores Israeli sovereignty over palestinian land?

What sovereignity?

They are internationally recognised as occupied territories - Israel does not have any sovereign rights to them. This is why the building of settlements is so controversial, it is essentially an annexation of land which they do not have sovereignity over.

The historical region of Palestine is internationally recognised as the state of Israel. State of Palestine is not recognosed by UN

Two things. Firstly the state of Israel has never been recognised to cover the entire region. Secondly the state of Palestine is now recognised by the UN - that is exactly what this vote was about.


WHen i look at the map of the world or an Atlas, Israeli territory pretty much includes all the Palestinian/Arab regions as well. And Palestine is nowehre near being actually recognized by UN, they aren't even a real member of anything


Out of interest which Atlas are you looking in? In any case - cartographers do not actually make political decisions.

Also while Palestine is not a full member of the UN, this is recognition of them as a state - the same status as given to the Holy See which is unambigiously a sovereign state.


I look at political maps. And come to think of it, I havnt seen the word Palestine in any world map ever. 

And Vatican is a lot more independet than Palestine could ever hope to be


Can you give me the name of the atlas or whatever though?

Also the point I was making is that this new status given to Palestine by the UN is the same as that which the Holy See enjoys.



That was a real mature response by Israel to announce they are going to build 3000 new settlements in occupied territory right after this vote.



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

killerzX said:
RoryGamesFree said:
good, hopefully they can go to the ICC and make Israel's war criminals pay at last.


lol. you cant be serious.

the only nation in that region that actually gives a damn about human rights.

With their use of white phosphorous on human targets, which is, of course, highly illegal. Or how about their sanctioning of illegal land-seizures.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

killerzX said:
RoryGamesFree said:
good, hopefully they can go to the ICC and make Israel's war criminals pay at last.


lol. you cant be serious.

the only nation in that region that actually gives a damn about human rights.

not in this universe chum...they are in violation of more UN resolutions than any other nation on Earth...they frequently flout international law and show contempt for the human rights of the Palestinians...