Forums - Politics Discussion - Catalonian Independence?

Catalonia polls favour separatist parties
 
The vote gives forces favouring Catalan statehood a commanding majority overall in the 135-seat Catalan parliament.

The economically powerful region of Catalonia has voted into office a large majority of pro-independence legislators, but the leader who made a referendum over breaking away from Spain a central plank of his campaign saw his party's majority reduced by 12 seats.

The centre-right Convergence and Union alliance (CiU) of regional president Artur Mas saw its parliamentary majority fall to 50 seats from 62, while leftist pro-independence party ERC came in second with 21, results from the regional government showed, with nearly all votes counted.

Mas appeared on television late on Sunday to thank his party for its support and to acknowledge that they could no longer rule alone as a minority government.

He also said that "those who think the referendum plan has been aborted" needed to do the math.

Two pro-unity parties - Prime Minister Rajoy's Popular Party and the Catalan Ciutadans - did make modest advances, boosting their seats by seven to 28.

Growing separatism

Though a humiliating setback to Mas, who called the election two years early after Madrid rejected his demands for greater fiscal powers for Catalonia, the vote gave forces favouring Catalan statehood a commanding majority overall in the 135-seat Catalan parliament.

Growing Catalan separatism is a huge challenge for Prime Minister Rajoy, who is trying to bring down painfully high borrowing costs by persuading investors of Spain's fiscal and political stability.

Many Catalans are angry that Rajoy has refused to negotiate a new tax deal with their largely self-governing region.

With more people than Denmark and an economy almost as big as Portugal's, Catalonia also has its own language.

Like Basques, Catalans see themselves as distinct from the rest of Spain.

The Catalans accuse Madrid of raising far more in taxes from the region than it returns, and estimates the gap, or fiscal deficit, at 16 billion euros ($21 billion) a year -- a figure Madrid disputes.

The region of 7.5 million people accounts for more than one-fifth of Spain's economic output and a quarter of its exports, and boasts one of the world's best football teams, Barcelona FC.

But Catalonia also has a 44-billion-euro debt, equal to one-fifth of its output, and was forced to turn to Madrid this year for more than five billion euros to help make the payments



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we need to stop spain winning football tournaments somehow,go for it

It's similar to the Scottish National Party and the Scottish referendum ordeal. I see it as more of a power statement rather than a set move towards independence.

That being said, if Catalonia ever does gain economic independence Spain is as good as fucked. (More than it is now, I guess).



 

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c03n3nj0 said:

It's similar to the Scottish National Party and the Scottish referendum ordeal. I see it as more of a power statement rather than a set move towards independence.

That being said, if Catalonia ever does gain economic independence Spain is as good as fucked. (More than it is now, I guess).

Scotland is generally a financial drain on the United Kingdom, though. They'd lose out on federal benefits if they moved, whereas Spain is messed up enough that Catalonia would likely do a better job of fixing things.

Though if Catalonia goes, it's going to herald a new age of European balkanization, where Albanian irredentism spreads further, Basque territory goes too, Belgium ceases to exist, and Greek Macedonia splits away.



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No one cares about the Basque anymore :(

We've always been independentists!

Anyway, it's not gonna happen, Spain is a fucked up state that will nevet allow a democratic process of self-determination of a distinct nation. I hope the Catalans get to decide what they want to be though, as it should be.

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Are the parties and the people that voted for them really serious about independence? Because the SNP are not, they got into power by being more reliably socialist than Labour.

Mr Khan said:
c03n3nj0 said:

It's similar to the Scottish National Party and the Scottish referendum ordeal. I see it as more of a power statement rather than a set move towards independence.

That being said, if Catalonia ever does gain economic independence Spain is as good as fucked. (More than it is now, I guess).

Scotland is generally a financial drain on the United Kingdom, though. They'd lose out on federal benefits if they moved, whereas Spain is messed up enough that Catalonia would likely do a better job of fixing things.

Though if Catalonia goes, it's going to herald a new age of European balkanization, where Albanian irredentism spreads further, Basque territory goes too, Belgium ceases to exist, and Greek Macedonia splits away.

What's that Belgium thing about? Haven't read/heard about anything going on there. The rest makes sense. Especially Basque since Catalonia would be setting a clear precendent. 



 

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c03n3nj0 said:
Mr Khan said:
c03n3nj0 said:

It's similar to the Scottish National Party and the Scottish referendum ordeal. I see it as more of a power statement rather than a set move towards independence.

That being said, if Catalonia ever does gain economic independence Spain is as good as fucked. (More than it is now, I guess).

Scotland is generally a financial drain on the United Kingdom, though. They'd lose out on federal benefits if they moved, whereas Spain is messed up enough that Catalonia would likely do a better job of fixing things.

Though if Catalonia goes, it's going to herald a new age of European balkanization, where Albanian irredentism spreads further, Basque territory goes too, Belgium ceases to exist, and Greek Macedonia splits away.

What's that Belgium thing about? Haven't read/heard about anything going on there. The rest makes sense. Especially Basque since Catalonia would be setting a clear precendent. 

Belgium didn't even have a government (only an interim government) for about 3 years or so recently, because they can't get the French-speakers of Wallonia and the Flemish-Dutch speakers of Flanders to cooperate. Since Belgium federalized in 1994, they've had a fair issue with separatism, and the country probably won't exist in 30 years.



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Slowly rebuild social life go!

Mr Khan said:
c03n3nj0 said:
Mr Khan said:
c03n3nj0 said:

It's similar to the Scottish National Party and the Scottish referendum ordeal. I see it as more of a power statement rather than a set move towards independence.

That being said, if Catalonia ever does gain economic independence Spain is as good as fucked. (More than it is now, I guess).

Scotland is generally a financial drain on the United Kingdom, though. They'd lose out on federal benefits if they moved, whereas Spain is messed up enough that Catalonia would likely do a better job of fixing things.

Though if Catalonia goes, it's going to herald a new age of European balkanization, where Albanian irredentism spreads further, Basque territory goes too, Belgium ceases to exist, and Greek Macedonia splits away.

What's that Belgium thing about? Haven't read/heard about anything going on there. The rest makes sense. Especially Basque since Catalonia would be setting a clear precendent. 

Belgium didn't even have a government (only an interim government) for about 3 years or so recently, because they can't get the French-speakers of Wallonia and the Flemish-Dutch speakers of Flanders to cooperate. Since Belgium federalized in 1994, they've had a fair issue with separatism, and the country probably won't exist in 30 years.


Ah, m'kay, thanks!

Silly Belgians. Might as well give Wallonia to France and Flanders to Holland. :P 



 

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I think seperationist votes should need to be passed twice over a 10 year period.

Once to initiate the process.... then once to finalize with the terms in place.

Partly so people know what they are getting into, and partly because often times independence is due to circumstance. For example, in this case. The amount wanting independence doubled after the global Financial Crisis.

If their economy got better within 10 years, independence faction might shrink again.

 

Outside that... if the two votes pass?  They should let them go.