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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Wiiu RAM 43% slower than PS360 RAM

justinian said:
This developer don't seem to think that the wii u's RAM creates a bottleneck issue.

http://www.vg247.com/2012/11/05/wii-u-avoids-ram-bottleneck-says-nano-assault-dev/

I am no technical buff but those in the know don't make that much of it's slow memory because of the eDRAM.

"One of the most interesting discoveries relates to the system's memory bandwidth which, at a peak total of 12.8GB/s, isn't too dissimilar to the Nexus 10 or the iPad 3/4. While this may not sound particularly impressive, it's worth noting that both the Wii U's CPU and GPU have a good amount of eDRAM at their disposal".

Let's face it, the wii u is no powerhouse, but it is not as pathetic as some people tend to make out.


Exactly what I'm saying, you don't need fast RAM.

As long as you have a cache on the CPU of reasonible size which all CPUs that aren't designed more for low power consumption do, and have done for years, there's no tangible gain in having a massive amount of system bandwidth except in rare situations that video games will never experience.



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fillet said:
Squilliam said:
fillet said:
Turkish said:
fillet said:
Makes fuck all difference, the speed of the main RAM hardly contributes anything towards performance.

/End thread.


huh what lol

Exactly what I said. RAM speed makes very little difference - if any to system performance in this context.

With the speed of RAM 10 years ago, yes it makes a difference because it's a bottleneck. With consoles 5 years ago that bottleneck didn't exist.

RAM speed makes hardly any difference.

For example, on PC DDR3 RAM at 1333Mhz Vs 2133Mhz....we're talking about 3-4% tops in terms of raw performance where RAM is important. In gaming, it would likely be even less than that.

Actually the speed of RAM matters more nowadays than it did 10 years ago. RAM has gotten slower relative to the performance of the CPU/GPU and a lot of silicon in the CPU/GPU is there simply to overcome this problem. If RAM had evolved as fast as everything else then we would have faster computers with quite different architectures.


Nothing to do with RAM, you're thinking of on die memory controllers as with latest Intel chips and with with AMD chips where it first started.

That's getting round the problem of the motherboard interconnect bus speed, nothing to do with the speed of the RAM itself.

With RAM and gaming, you need enough of it and that's it. Speed of RAM +/- negligible.

Nope.

"My conclusion: Usable memory amount is very much tied to available memory bandwidth. More bandwidth allows the games to access more memory. So it's kind of counterintuitive to swap faster smaller memory to a slower larger one. More available memory means that I want to access more memory, but in reality the slower bandwidth allows me to access less. So the percentage of accessible memory drops radically."

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=62108



Tease.

Squilliam said:
fillet said:
Squilliam said:
fillet said:
Turkish said:
fillet said:
Makes fuck all difference, the speed of the main RAM hardly contributes anything towards performance.

/End thread.


huh what lol

Exactly what I said. RAM speed makes very little difference - if any to system performance in this context.

With the speed of RAM 10 years ago, yes it makes a difference because it's a bottleneck. With consoles 5 years ago that bottleneck didn't exist.

RAM speed makes hardly any difference.

For example, on PC DDR3 RAM at 1333Mhz Vs 2133Mhz....we're talking about 3-4% tops in terms of raw performance where RAM is important. In gaming, it would likely be even less than that.

Actually the speed of RAM matters more nowadays than it did 10 years ago. RAM has gotten slower relative to the performance of the CPU/GPU and a lot of silicon in the CPU/GPU is there simply to overcome this problem. If RAM had evolved as fast as everything else then we would have faster computers with quite different architectures.


Nothing to do with RAM, you're thinking of on die memory controllers as with latest Intel chips and with with AMD chips where it first started.

That's getting round the problem of the motherboard interconnect bus speed, nothing to do with the speed of the RAM itself.

With RAM and gaming, you need enough of it and that's it. Speed of RAM +/- negligible.

Nope.

"My conclusion: Usable memory amount is very much tied to available memory bandwidth. More bandwidth allows the games to access more memory. So it's kind of counterintuitive to swap faster smaller memory to a slower larger one. More available memory means that I want to access more memory, but in reality the slower bandwidth allows me to access less. So the percentage of accessible memory drops radically."

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=62108


Not relevant, that's regarding GPU RAM, school boy error there mate.

In a GPU amount of memory, once you get to "enough" makes no difference. For example nvidia used to have this habit or releasing low powered varients of their graphics cards with massive amounts of VRAM to try and sucker people in, even though the cards were too slow to run at a resolution high enough to make use of the VRAM.

In a graphics card RAM speed is crucial and the basic raw deciding factor in it's general speed when running games that don't make extensive use of pixel and vertex shading units.

That's basic 101 graphics card knowledge.



Well, if it was 128bit wide bus (like in 360) it would double that 12.8GB/s to 25.6GB/s - if I'm not mistaken, it is like going from DDR3 to GDDR5 at the same clock (x2 vs x4 effective, so 2x difference). So, for the sake of comparison (though DDR3 part is 1600 effective, and GDDR5 is 4000, so 2.5x difference):

http://tech2.in.com/reviews/graphics-cards/his-hd-6670-1gb-ddr3-graphics-card/231692#show



fillet said:
justinian said:
This developer don't seem to think that the wii u's RAM creates a bottleneck issue.

http://www.vg247.com/2012/11/05/wii-u-avoids-ram-bottleneck-says-nano-assault-dev/

I am no technical buff but those in the know don't make that much of it's slow memory because of the eDRAM.

"One of the most interesting discoveries relates to the system's memory bandwidth which, at a peak total of 12.8GB/s, isn't too dissimilar to the Nexus 10 or the iPad 3/4. While this may not sound particularly impressive, it's worth noting that both the Wii U's CPU and GPU have a good amount of eDRAM at their disposal".

Let's face it, the wii u is no powerhouse, but it is not as pathetic as some people tend to make out.


Exactly what I'm saying, you don't need fast RAM.

As long as you have a cache on the CPU of reasonible size which all CPUs that aren't designed more for low power consumption do, and have done for years, there's no tangible gain in having a massive amount of system bandwidth except in rare situations that video games will never experience.

You're forgetting that the GPU also accesses the RAM in WiiU and the RAM speed makes a huge difference for the GPU. Just look at AMDs APUs and how the clock speed of the DDR3 RAM in the system can make all the difference to a games performance:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-a8-3850-llano,2975-6.html

Even though the A8 3850 has a fairly weak GPU, the RAM speed is the bottleneck for gaming performance.



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fillet said:
Squilliam said:
fillet said:
Squilliam said:
fillet said:
Turkish said:
fillet said:
Makes fuck all difference, the speed of the main RAM hardly contributes anything towards performance.

/End thread.


huh what lol

Exactly what I said. RAM speed makes very little difference - if any to system performance in this context.

With the speed of RAM 10 years ago, yes it makes a difference because it's a bottleneck. With consoles 5 years ago that bottleneck didn't exist.

RAM speed makes hardly any difference.

For example, on PC DDR3 RAM at 1333Mhz Vs 2133Mhz....we're talking about 3-4% tops in terms of raw performance where RAM is important. In gaming, it would likely be even less than that.

Actually the speed of RAM matters more nowadays than it did 10 years ago. RAM has gotten slower relative to the performance of the CPU/GPU and a lot of silicon in the CPU/GPU is there simply to overcome this problem. If RAM had evolved as fast as everything else then we would have faster computers with quite different architectures.


Nothing to do with RAM, you're thinking of on die memory controllers as with latest Intel chips and with with AMD chips where it first started.

That's getting round the problem of the motherboard interconnect bus speed, nothing to do with the speed of the RAM itself.

With RAM and gaming, you need enough of it and that's it. Speed of RAM +/- negligible.

Nope.

"My conclusion: Usable memory amount is very much tied to available memory bandwidth. More bandwidth allows the games to access more memory. So it's kind of counterintuitive to swap faster smaller memory to a slower larger one. More available memory means that I want to access more memory, but in reality the slower bandwidth allows me to access less. So the percentage of accessible memory drops radically."

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=62108


Not relevant, that's regarding GPU RAM, school boy error there mate.

In a GPU amount of memory, once you get to "enough" makes no difference. For example nvidia used to have this habit or releasing low powered varients of their graphics cards with massive amounts of VRAM to try and sucker people in, even though the cards were too slow to run at a resolution high enough to make use of the VRAM.

In a graphics card RAM speed is crucial and the basic raw deciding factor in it's general speed when running games that don't make extensive use of pixel and vertex shading units.

That's basic 101 graphics card knowledge.

See my other post. The same RAM is being used by the GPU.



Scoobes said:
fillet said:
justinian said:
This developer don't seem to think that the wii u's RAM creates a bottleneck issue.

http://www.vg247.com/2012/11/05/wii-u-avoids-ram-bottleneck-says-nano-assault-dev/

I am no technical buff but those in the know don't make that much of it's slow memory because of the eDRAM.

"One of the most interesting discoveries relates to the system's memory bandwidth which, at a peak total of 12.8GB/s, isn't too dissimilar to the Nexus 10 or the iPad 3/4. While this may not sound particularly impressive, it's worth noting that both the Wii U's CPU and GPU have a good amount of eDRAM at their disposal".

Let's face it, the wii u is no powerhouse, but it is not as pathetic as some people tend to make out.


Exactly what I'm saying, you don't need fast RAM.

As long as you have a cache on the CPU of reasonible size which all CPUs that aren't designed more for low power consumption do, and have done for years, there's no tangible gain in having a massive amount of system bandwidth except in rare situations that video games will never experience.

You're forgetting that the GPU also accesses the RAM in WiiU and the RAM speed makes a huge difference for the GPU. Just look at AMDs APUs and how the clock speed of the DDR3 RAM in the system can make all the difference to a games performance:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-a8-3850-llano,2975-6.html

Even though the A8 3850 has a fairly weak GPU, the RAM speed is the bottleneck for gaming performance.


That's because VRAM on a graphics card is super high speed, for example on a high end graphics card it can run at 6Ghz+

Even old high end graphics cards from 7-8 years ago would have VRAM that's 2-3Ghz.

So of course even on low end graphics cards in 2012 like the ones built into the CPU on AMD platform will be heavily starved of bandwidth.



Squilliam said:
fillet said:
Squilliam said:
fillet said:
Turkish said:
fillet said:
Makes fuck all difference, the speed of the main RAM hardly contributes anything towards performance.

/End thread.


huh what lol

Exactly what I said. RAM speed makes very little difference - if any to system performance in this context.

With the speed of RAM 10 years ago, yes it makes a difference because it's a bottleneck. With consoles 5 years ago that bottleneck didn't exist.

RAM speed makes hardly any difference.

For example, on PC DDR3 RAM at 1333Mhz Vs 2133Mhz....we're talking about 3-4% tops in terms of raw performance where RAM is important. In gaming, it would likely be even less than that.

Actually the speed of RAM matters more nowadays than it did 10 years ago. RAM has gotten slower relative to the performance of the CPU/GPU and a lot of silicon in the CPU/GPU is there simply to overcome this problem. If RAM had evolved as fast as everything else then we would have faster computers with quite different architectures.


Nothing to do with RAM, you're thinking of on die memory controllers as with latest Intel chips and with with AMD chips where it first started.

That's getting round the problem of the motherboard interconnect bus speed, nothing to do with the speed of the RAM itself.

With RAM and gaming, you need enough of it and that's it. Speed of RAM +/- negligible.

Nope.

"My conclusion: Usable memory amount is very much tied to available memory bandwidth. More bandwidth allows the games to access more memory. So it's kind of counterintuitive to swap faster smaller memory to a slower larger one. More available memory means that I want to access more memory, but in reality the slower bandwidth allows me to access less. So the percentage of accessible memory drops radically."

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=62108


When you quote something from a wall of text you should tell people the paragraph because we don't know the context and could be cherry picked argument.



"Excuse me sir, I see you have a weapon. Why don't you put it down and let's settle this like gentlemen"  ~ max

lol at haters complaining anything they can find about the wii u. its not like they will buy the wii u in the first place even if its 1000x more powerful than the ps360.



hivycox said:
Did they test the RAM ??
I mean just to read the model number on the chip and posting the normal numbers isn't very credible if you know what i mean. Like the GPU, the RAM can as well be modified. And why does everybody forget about the eDRAM ?!

"It's bashing Nintendo-time folks"

chill out guys..and never underestemate japanese people with their experience with tech.. I'm sure they know the wii u is strong enough ;)


I am with you, mate. Just shows how people would believe anything.

Let's see what we have had so far, shall we.

First it was 17GB bandwidthhttp://n4g.com/news/1123102/wii-u-ram-has-17gb-s-bandwidth

Next it was 6.4GB bandwidth. http://www.anandtech.com/print/6465

Now it's 12GB bandwithhttp://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/11/take_an_in_depth_look_at_whats_under_the_wii_us_shiny_exterior

Tomorrow i am going to put 10 big ones on it being...let's see.... 1GB bandwidth and the next day 50GB.

I am going to take a wild guess based on my rather lacking technical know how and say the end product will be .. 28GB.