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Forums - Sales Discussion - Why does VGC get a bad rap?

Well, when this site started ioi wasn't much reasonable about disclosing his sources and methodology - that didn't make much for vgcharts rep at neogaf. Also, the neogaf guys need to keep in good relationship with npd - so far the brief snippet they release monthly is the only reliable bit of american sales data they get and want to preserve it. Add 2+2 together and you'll see why vgchartz is banned over at neogaf.





Current-gen game collection uploaded on the profile, full of win and good games; also most of my PC games. Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts 1982-2008 (Requiescat In Pace).

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Bitmap Frogs said:
Well, when this site started ioi wasn't much reasonable about disclosing his sources and methodology - that didn't make much for vgcharts rep at neogaf. Also, the neogaf guys need to keep in good relationship with npd - so far the brief snippet they release monthly is the only reliable bit of american sales data they get and want to preserve it. Add 2+2 together and you'll see why vgchartz is banned over at neogaf.

Wait what do you mean by the "2+2" comment? Are you actually saying that they ban mentions of VGC for fear of reprisal from NPD?

To my knowledge there was a deal with GAF and NPD that resulted in the several pieces of info being released each month provided they would prevent people from posting all of their data through nefarious means. So it would seem NPD has more to lose than neogaf. Unless they traded the info on how the information was obtained for that priveledge?

But more to the point if NPD reprisal would come as a result of VGC acceptance then doesn't that essentially say that NPD feels threatened by VGC and thus lend it a certain amount of credability from the source most folks at neogaf consider the only trustworthy source?

I have a hard time believing NPD would even care about VGC if they honestly felt their numbers were off-base. If that were the case then each new release of data would prove this and it wouldn't take long for people to stop caring. But each new release of data consistently shows the two data sets to be within 10% of each other. Which when you consider that they are BOTH estimations means that they confirm each other.

Honestly I think neogaf has fallen into one of the many dangers of censorship. Which is that if people aren't allowed to discuss "it" then it only breeds ignorance of what cannot be discussed. I've discussed this issue with a number of people from neogaf before on this site and others and the one constant is that they always discuss what happened a year or more ago and generally know very little about what this site has done in the here and now. The reason is because as neogaf members they are never exposed to what really goes on over here or what the site is really about, instead they are exposed to a lot of hard feelings over something that happened a while ago and they only get one side of that argument.

VGC today is a lot different than VGC 6 months ago when I joined. VGC today is a helluva lot differnt than a year ago when I started lurking. However long ago this scuffle with ioi and gaf mods occurred I can tell you that a lot of things have changed, and from what I have seen neither side has really been communicating but just going off the last known scenario...which clearly doesn't apply anymore.

Perhaps its time for people to let go of the past and live in the here and now.  And in the here and now VGC data is out before NPD and they usually agree on hardware numbers (software is a whole other bag but I don't think anyone will argue that software has issues still).  In addition to just numbers are the tools and features to graph, chart, tabulate, etc... all of the data so that it is readily available.  I just have a hard time seeing how an argument from more than a year ago means an entire community turns their back on those features.



To Each Man, Responsibility
Sqrl said:
Bitmap Frogs said:
Well, when this site started ioi wasn't much reasonable about disclosing his sources and methodology - that didn't make much for vgcharts rep at neogaf. Also, the neogaf guys need to keep in good relationship with npd - so far the brief snippet they release monthly is the only reliable bit of american sales data they get and want to preserve it. Add 2+2 together and you'll see why vgchartz is banned over at neogaf.

Wait what do you mean by the "2+2" comment? Are you actually saying that they ban mentions of VGC for fear of reprisal from NPD?

To my knowledge there was a deal with GAF and NPD that resulted in the several pieces of info being released each month provided they would prevent people from posting all of their data through nefarious means. So it would seem NPD has more to lose than neogaf. Unless they traded the info on how the information was obtained for that priveledge?

But more to the point if NPD reprisal would come as a result of VGC acceptance then doesn't that essentially say that NPD feels threatened by VGC and thus lend it a certain amount of credability from the source most folks at neogaf consider the only trustworthy source?

I have a hard time believing NPD would even care about VGC if they honestly felt their numbers were off-base. If that were the case then each new release of data would prove this and it wouldn't take long for people to stop caring. But each new release of data consistently shows the two data sets to be within 10% of each other. Which when you consider that they are BOTH estimations means that they confirm each other.

Honestly I think neogaf has fallen into one of the many dangers of censorship. Which is that if people aren't allowed to discuss "it" then it only breeds ignorance of what cannot be discussed. I've discussed this issue with a number of people from neogaf before on this site and others and the one constant is that they always discuss what happened a year or more ago and generally know very little about what this site has done in the here and now. The reason is because as neogaf members they are never exposed to what really goes on over here or what the site is really about, instead they are exposed to a lot of hard feelings over something that happened a while ago and they only get one side of that argument.

VGC today is a lot different than VGC 6 months ago when I joined. VGC today is a helluva lot differnt than a year ago when I started lurking. However long ago this scuffle with ioi and gaf mods occurred I can tell you that a lot of things have changed, and from what I have seen neither side has really been communicating but just going off the last known scenario...which clearly doesn't apply anymore.


 It could be possible, NPD has made it know they do not like VGC.



Proud Member of GAIBoWS (Gamers Against Irrational Bans of Weezy & Squilliam)

                   

gebx said:

It could be possible, NPD has made it know they do not like VGC.


I absolutely agree that NPD has made it known that they are not fond of VGC.  And from what I have seen of David Riley (presuming it was him, personally I'm not 100% convinced), their feeling threatened would lend a whole heap of credability to this site.

 

Ok well let me back up for a second. Operating under the assumption that NPD doesn't like VGC there are only so many conclusions you can draw:

1) NPD is run by a bunch of idiots who feel threatened by VGC even though they don't think its accurate.

2) NPD feels VGC is accurate enough to be a threat and accordingly they attempt to protect their interest.

 

I have a hard time believing the first scenario which sort of leaves one option.



To Each Man, Responsibility

There is only one thing you cannot discuss here at VGC.

(a certain Ferrari driver and his non-deservedness)



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Hamilton deserved to lose. Silly ioi making up the numbers like he makes up the rules for racing!




Some people just can't handle reality. I blame Wii Fit.


im not sure why the numbers aren't considered accurate for archive purposes, but I do know why the weekly american figures aren't trusted (look at cod4)



Note: Some games in my collection are no longer owned, but have owned.

Probably because they're not perfect.. and certain people paint them to be fact on other forums (even though anyone with half a brain would realise they are estimates).



Don't be silly, they aren't afraid of NPD taking action against the boards (at least on this vgchartz issue). It's just that it's convenient for them to be in friendly terms with NPD, and banning vgchartz discussion surely makes NPD happy.

Personally, while I don't trust the euro hardware numbers and the all-around software numbers here, the american hw estimations are getting nicely close to NPD and that makes them reliable enough to have a rational argument based on them.

I'm sure  NPD doesn't feel threatened by vgchartz but they sure see the potential in this site - as time grows if ioi does a good job it'll start to get good with software too. Then it might start being a cause of worry for them. Sure the guys who invest in videogames will keep using NPD, but what about the journalistic accounts? that's money lost there.





Current-gen game collection uploaded on the profile, full of win and good games; also most of my PC games. Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts 1982-2008 (Requiescat In Pace).