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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo fires back at critics who say they rehash their games

DraconianAC on 30 October 2012
menx64 said:
the truth is, quality matters and nintendo knows howto do it. Mario galaxy, mario 3d land & pokemon white/black: Some people can only see those games as mario 29 and pokemon 73, but in all honesty, is there any other dev capable of making that many sequels and still get praise from gamers and reviewers alike?...

I think this is exactly how I see those games. I only played the first Marios from NES & SNES. I didn't get attached to Mario as a character and moved on pretty quickly. I will also add that I didn't get attached to Link from Zelda either. When I see a new Zelda or Mario game, I just roll my eyes. I'm probably missing out on something good, but I didn't get attached to the characters then, and they don't appeal to me now as man in my 30's.

Having said that, Let me just congratulate Nintendo for being successful in the way they do things. I don't know much in the specifics, but I know they sell plenty of those Mario/Pokemon/Zelda games, and it must be for a good reason. I think its foolish to bash Nintendo for coming up with winning formulas that sell well.



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Veknoid_Outcast on 30 October 2012
RolStoppable said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:
I haven't played New Super Mario Bros. 2, so I can't speak to that.

To some extent, all developers are guilty of rehashing ideas and mechanics that worked well the first time around. There are some exceptions -- Jak II comes to mind -- but the majority of franchise games don't break with tradition.

I just can't see people blaming Nintendo for rehashing its ideas and producing lackluster games when many of the most recent first-party games are among the best-rated Nintendo games.

Donkey Kong Country Returns (2010) -- 87/100
Super Mario 3D Land (2011) -- 90/100
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword (2011) -- 93/100

And that's 25-30 years after the first installment. That's pretty damn incredible.

Using Metascores as justification... I thought you would be above that.

How do you know they aren't my own? ;)

In any event, as much as I think there is rampant score inflation across all video game media outlets, for the sake of argument we need to use something to define critical consensus.

I could have used user scores, but that would mean Mass Effect 3 was a 53, and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 was a 32.



Player2 on 30 October 2012
Veknoid_Outcast said:
RolStoppable said:

Using Metascores as justification... I thought you would be above that.

How do you know they aren't my own? ;)

In any event, as much as I think there is rampant score inflation across all video game media outlets, for the sake of argument we need to use something to define critical consensus.

I could have used user scores, but that would mean Mass Effect 3 was a 53, and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 was a 32.

When those scores come from people that doesn't know the games they play and refuse to learn them (I've read several times in 3D fighting games communities that reviewers refused to have some matches with pros), I refuse to accept their scores.



Veknoid_Outcast on 30 October 2012
Player2 said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:
RolStoppable said:
 

Using Metascores as justification... I thought you would be above that.

How do you know they aren't my own? ;)

In any event, as much as I think there is rampant score inflation across all video game media outlets, for the sake of argument we need to use something to define critical consensus.

I could have used user scores, but that would mean Mass Effect 3 was a 53, and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 was a 32.

When those scores come from people that doesn't know the games they play and refuse to learn them (I've read several times in 3D fighting games communities that reviewers refused to have some matches with pros), I refuse to accept their scores.

There's clearly a big problem with video game critics -- I was very loud in my criticism of the press corps in a previous thread -- but if one has to reference the critical consensus, sites like Metacritic and GameRankings are invaluable resources. Clearly, referencing the popular consensus is a mine field (MW3 gets a 32/100), so really it's the best we've got. I would love it if VGChartz had a metascore function that allowed all registered users to score games, but would that ever happen?



Player2 on 30 October 2012
Veknoid_Outcast said:
 

There's clearly a big problem with video game critics -- I was very loud in my criticism of the press corps in a previous thread -- but if one has to reference the critical consensus, sites like Metacritic and GameRankings are invaluable resources. Clearly, referencing the popular consensus is a mine field (MW3 gets a 32/100), so really it's the best we've got. I would love it if VGChartz had a metascore function that allowed all registered users to score games, but would that ever happen?

Frequently they base their scores in false statements or technical stuff (when they are not biased) so there's little point in them.

The VGChartz metascore wouldn't help either. Fanboy bias, etc.

The only things you have are your eyes, ears and internet. Download demos, watch gameplay videos, read some user reviews and try to discover the rules of the game by yourself. If you do this you'll end up being a better gamer.



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Mummelmann on 30 October 2012

The entire 7th generation is a massive rehash. The amount of variety is shockingly small and all the blockbusters follow very specific recipes and norms.

Nintendo also rehashes, there is no denying that, but unlike most blockbuster games, the end product is actually worth something.



KeptoKnight on 30 October 2012

lol rehash? I think this thread is for VG-$$$ and trolling.....

what about the SPORTS games? RACING? FIRST PERSON SHOOTERS? .......



TruckOSaurus on 30 October 2012
KeptoKnight said:
lol rehash? I think this thread is for VG-$$$ and trolling.....

what about the SPORTS games? RACING? FIRST PERSON SHOOTERS? .......

VG$!?!  Nah, it's all about the VGC points nowadays but even that is a rehash of VG$ so I guess ioi is also guilty of rehashing concepts.



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xLeftyx on 30 October 2012
DanneSandin said:

considering that the critics critism is uncalled for nintendo can go about doing their thing like they've always done: improving gameplay. which is kinda important, for, you know, games.

While I agree gameplay should be the focal point of development, 'improving' it as you stated is but an embellishment of rehash. Why not establish more IP with better production value (focused on gameplay as Nintendo normally does)? If anything, this should be more beneficial for Nintendo should Mario or Zelda ever be not as successful as expected. Why not venture into uncharted territory by developing games for genres they're not fully familiar with? They could learn.

F0X said:

Why do that? Xenoblade was one of the best Wii games and its sales weren't so hot.

The fact that it took Rainfall to even localized the game in the west shows Nintendo themselves didn't fully believe in the product. Xenoblade, The Last Story, and Pandora's Tower felt more of a filler more than anything.

Remember Monster Hunter for Wii? That's not Nintendo owned yet Nintendo advertised that game to the fullest. Now, that's establishing an IP anomalous to Wii demographic. They believed in it.

 

Overall, I think Nintendo is holding themselves back. If we have more Nintendo-developed IPs with great production value, that'd give us as gamers more choices. In addition, this will eliminate the questions in their seriousness in attracting the core demographic.



xLeftyx on 30 October 2012
noname2200 said:
xLeftyx said:
Critics' analysis can easily be deflated by, hmm, let's see... actually developing more and NEW IPs other than their flagship mascots or the Wii series.

If I can list some new IPs other than their flagship mascots or the Wii series that they've published over the past couple of years, will you admit that you spoke out of ignorance and that your opinion is therefore completely invalid?

Really, I can wiki it myself but I'm actually referring more to Nintendo-developed games but for the sake of argument please do. While you're at it, gauge and list how much production value Nintendo has put in it and how have they conveyed the importance of these IPs in the form of advertisement the same way they do with their flagship titles.