Yeah, that's what i hate about the abortion debate.   tons of different and intersting philosophical and moral issues are out there, yet none of that gets thought about because everybody is worried about argueing something that will never be solved because the debators don't even have a single unified premise.

For the record.  I'm cutting Pork out of my diet on that line of thinking... because pigs actually pass sentience tests that human infants fail until they are two.

Logically if you don't believe that possibilty for sentience is a good reason to not have abortion... essentially eating a pig is worse then eating a child under the age of two.

I'm not sure i believe that.  Doesn't feel right from a gut feeling but i've got no actual logical arguement against it.

By the way... it's amazing how the Republicans have turned the near certainty of having a republican senate to a wide long shot.

They have to win 8 out of 10 toss ups now. Like 6 months ago they had to win less having a few more leaning GOP and the democrats have way less leaning Dem.

Two things I have seen bothered me but this one here made me want to post without reading the rest of the replies so sorry if I am repeating what someone else stated. Here is what is wrong with what you are implying:

1) While life is something, "God" intends to happen. So is death. This means -abortions included- death is, "God's Will" just as life is.

2) Thee argument has been that a fetus IS LIFE! Threfore, life has happened. You cannot kill that which is not alive.

3) His argument is extremely unclear. Is he promoting an agenda? Does he truly believe that something like that is, "A gift from God" because I know a rape vitcim that would be extremely offended by that remark. Is he trying to impose his will and beliefs on everyone, because if that is the case, lets just have a dictatorship in this country.

4) You cannot have, "God's Will" as half a story. You cannot say, "rape is not God's Will" then say, "but the conception is God's Will" and then say, "but abortion is not God's Will" because that conveys the message that God has no true message. Either it is all, "God's Will" or none of it is. You cannot pick and choose what is, "God's Will" because then you come off looking like you are speaking for God... or playing God.

This mans comments can't be spun, because they are reprehensible both explicitly and implicitly. It always adds up to being a justification after the fact. They are indefensible, because they encourage a view of rape pregnancies as being a positive thing. Which they are most assuredly not. It goes beyond the fact that it is a continuation of the violation in eyes of the women. It is a active reward for the criminal. Self procreation is a reward, and the act of creation is a form of self validation. It can even go so far as extending the perpetrators control over their victim.

It is at the heart of our society that a criminal should not be permitted to profit from their crimes. This mindset actively encourages the crime, because it tells the criminal that their victory should be ensured. This really does go beyond a single incident. It has a direct impact on society as a whole. The presence or absence of a single person on the whole is negligible. Creating a social contract that seeks to reward criminals damages all of us immeasurably.

Imagine if you will a politician promoting the belief that a bank robber may have to spend ten years in prison if they are caught, but they get to keep the proceeds from the crime. Sure it would be one thing if the bank said that they could keep the money, but a public policy ensuring that is the case. Well now that is just asking for a big increase in the crime itself, and the number of people that will undertake the crime. There are a lot of people that would see ten years in prison as being worth it if they managed to get away with a couple million dollars.

For the welfare of society no leader should be promoting a policy that encourages crimes against their fellow citizens. Nobody should be forced to elevate the crimes that were committed against their person. Were I made to give milk and cookies to someone who say murdered my parents. I would be terribly outraged. In the case of his comments he is actually collaborating on the crime itself. First he is shaming the victim, and then he is actually implying there is a justification for the crime. He is a fucking pig, and he couldn't have possibly thought this all out with real empathy. I hope his god exists, and I hope he has to spend eternity with him, because it would truly be just desserts.

Since we have gone off on a tangent concerning what is human life. Until a fetus is actively capable of the act of self perpetuation it is not distinct from the women that is carrying it. It is no more then a part of her anatomy, and as such she has rights to treat it as she so wishes. Just as any of us have that same right. If I want to I can modify my anatomy, or remove parts of it if I so desire. My hand has no right to a continued existence. I have every right to cut it off if I so choose. A fetus is human, but it is one human as a whole, and it is most definitely not a human being.

Which is something else entirely. Young babies are also human, but they aren't human beings. A human being is more then the sum of its parts. Neither is capable of mental self distinction. That is something that happens later in life. It is a emergent property. You aren't you as in a distinct individual until you begin to make actual decisions. A block of granite isn't a statue. It has the potential to be one, but it also has the potential of being a gravel road. As harsh as it may sound to some until you are a individual you are just a mass produced commodity. There is absolutely no mental distinction between any two fetuses, or any two young babies.

Any distinction you see between any two of them is merely a anthropomorphism on your part. It is just part of human nature to assume that someone is home. Even when there is nobody at home, or nobody is due to check in for some time. Sometimes I think my electronics have a mind of their own, but they don't have a mind of their own. I am just imagining that they have a mind of their own. Fetuses aren't people. They just are. I am not saying that it is wrong for them to be the embodiment of your dreams, but dreams aren't the reality of what they are.