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Forums - Politics Discussion - A debate, Capitalism Vs Communism

 

Capitalism Vs Communism

Capitalism 77 52.38%
 
Communism 36 24.49%
 
Other (if it exists) 34 23.13%
 
Total:147

I just cant get behind communism in theory or in terms of practicality

Communism for one requires an enormous amount of government control in the lives of the citizens to work effectively.

If people have a choice between capitalism and communism its my belief that the most able of people will flow towards capitalism as it will better reward their efforts and skills. Those going towards communism may be those who failed at working in a free market and will therefore be less able workers. Over time the differences between the two systems in terms of productivity will become apparent and communism will fail.

China a so called communist country has prospered as a result of allowing capitalism into the country and rewarding the effort of the people.

The only remaining communist countries are North Korea and Cuba both will serious social problems and lead by Dictatorships.

It is through charity and human kindness that we will create a world where everyone has a chance to achieve their dreams.

The world will always have those who possess more than others but with their success the dream of making it big lives on in the hearts of all those who strive for greatness.



This is the Game of Thrones

Where you either win

or you DIE

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SamuelRSmith said:
gamelover2000 said:

People have this idea that a truly liberal economy would benefit both employers and employees but it won't.

 

employees want nothing but profit. They are not interested in anything else that is the reason why they outsource our jobs to Asia.

Everybody wants profit.

And what's wrong with outsourcing jobs to Asia? Do Asians not deserve jobs? Thanks to excessive regulations, taxes, benefits, etc., employers can employ multiple Asians for the price of one Westerner.

If people don't work in China, they starve. If people don't work in Cihicago, they collect foodstamps.

Really, which option is more moral to you?


That's like saying slavery was good for helping Africa get jobs. They get paid less then half of what we get paid yet they work twice as long. They're slaves.

 

Despite what your teacher and parents have told you, having no job is better than being a slave. Especially in China where food is no longer scarce.



Currently playing: MAG, Heavy Rain, Infamous

 

Getting Plat trophies for: Heavy Rain, Infamous, RE5,  Burnout and GOW collection once I get it.

 

SamuelRSmith said:

America got rich because it embraced capitalism in the 19th century. It decays now, because it fares away from it. The "emerging nations" are doing so because they are embracing more and more capitalism today. To argue that the way to "ruin" somewhere is to have capitalism, is to argue against history.


America got rich in the 19th century because of geography, protectionism, Europeans fighting each other and immense natural resources. State capitalism played it's part.



Capitalism actually isn't about working hard. If that were the case, then passive income sources, such as investments, would not be so much more profitable than hard work. The vast majority of people who work hard are doing it to stay afloat, and retire only to be forced to make their own bread as their main food source to cut expenses down.

Also note that pretty much every country taxes passive income at a lower rate than active income.

Capitalism being about hard work is a myth, it is about exploitation; if you are working hard yourself, you're exploiting yourself and probably for the benefit of someone else's passive income source, who pays less tax than you do.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:

Capitalism actually isn't about working hard. If that were the case, then passive income sources, such as investments, would not be so much more profitable than hard work. The vast majority of people who work hard are doing it to stay afloat, and retire only to be forced to make their own bread as their main food source to cut expenses down.

Also note that pretty much every country taxes passive income at a lower rate than active income.

Capitalism being about hard work is a myth, it is about exploitation; if you are working hard yourself, you're exploiting yourself and probably for the benefit of someone else's passive income source, who pays less tax than you do.


You're right, capitalism isn't about "working hard" it is about working smart, and I don't think you can call an agreement between two parties that was willingly entered by both "exploitation".

A company offers a worker a wage that is (roughly) equal to what they would have to pay someone else to do as good of a job if the worker decides not to take the job, and the worker accepts the wage if it is better than or (roughly) equal to what they would earn by working for another company. Competition determines a person's salary, and (under capitalism) a person has tons of control over the skills they develop in their life (and therefore the income they earn).

Ultimately, beyond the obvious arguments against double taxation, capital gains taxes are lower than income taxes to encourage investing of money. When people invest their own money it is good for both the people investing and the economy on the whole (over the long run). With the government already encouraging taking on greater levels of debt to buy products and services of little value investing has already been discouraged to an extreme level, and taxing investment income at higher rates will only make this worse by reducing the growth rate in the economy and making people more dependent on the government.



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gamelover2000 said:

That's like saying slavery was good for helping Africa get jobs. They get paid less then half of what we get paid yet they work twice as long. They're slaves.

 

Despite what your teacher and parents have told you, having no job is better than being a slave. Especially in China where food is no longer scarce.


The claim is no where near the same. The difference is between voluntary and coerced. Slaves are coerced into work, through the use of guns. When somebody in China goes to get a job, they do so voluntarily... because it's the best option.

Food is no longer scarce in China? Bro, I'm living in Hong Kong, I talk to people from the mainland on a daily basis. The consensus is 100% clear: if you do not work, you will starve. Chinese welfare is nowhere near enough to feed you and your family.

Actually, my teachers told me all the shit that you guys spout. That capitalism is slavery.



Badassbab said:
SamuelRSmith said:

America got rich because it embraced capitalism in the 19th century. It decays now, because it fares away from it. The "emerging nations" are doing so because they are embracing more and more capitalism today. To argue that the way to "ruin" somewhere is to have capitalism, is to argue against history.


America got rich in the 19th century because of geography, protectionism, Europeans fighting each other and immense natural resources. State capitalism played it's part.


Geography and natural resources have nothing to do with it. Hong Kong is essentially just a big rock with zero natural resources, and yet it's one of the richest places in the world. Because of capitalism. Many places in the world are far more resource-blessed than the USA, and is still far poorer. Look at Africa and Latin America, for example.

Did Americans not fight each other in the 19th century? Best throw out my history books, then!

Protectionism, I'm not gonna dispute that America had protectionism, but it grew rich despite it. To argue that protectionism makes a country rich is to argue that a family who refused to trade with any outside individual could become wealthy through it. Have to build your own shelter, make your own clothes, grow your own food, harvest your own energy, etc... everybody would have a job! The family's employment would be 100%, they'd be billionaires! Right?



there has never been any "pure" communist country in history and never will. only thing comes close to communism was native american tribes. the so called communist countries are just dictatorships with communist ideology.



SamuelRSmith said:
Badassbab said:
SamuelRSmith said:

America got rich because it embraced capitalism in the 19th century. It decays now, because it fares away from it. The "emerging nations" are doing so because they are embracing more and more capitalism today. To argue that the way to "ruin" somewhere is to have capitalism, is to argue against history.


America got rich in the 19th century because of geography, protectionism, Europeans fighting each other and immense natural resources. State capitalism played it's part.


Geography and natural resources have nothing to do with it. Hong Kong is essentially just a big rock with zero natural resources, and yet it's one of the richest places in the world. Because of capitalism. Many places in the world are far more resource-blessed than the USA, and is still far poorer. Look at Africa and Latin America, for example.

Did Americans not fight each other in the 19th century? Best throw out my history books, then!

Protectionism, I'm not gonna dispute that America had protectionism, but it grew rich despite it. To argue that protectionism makes a country rich is to argue that a family who refused to trade with any outside individual could become wealthy through it. Have to build your own shelter, make your own clothes, grow your own food, harvest your own energy, etc... everybody would have a job! The family's employment would be 100%, they'd be billionaires! Right?

Keeping to your original topic which is to say 19th century US Economy post Civil War (since that's when the economy took off and presumably this is the period you are talking about)-

Geography- Mass arable farming land and one of the best interconnected navigable rivers in the world so low transport investment required. Some of the worlds best natural habours and all year round warm water ports. Barrier islands protects US coasts from bad weather. Pacific and Atlantic protected it from the major land armies of Europe. Peace with Canada and Mexico meant no large standing armies required to the north or south despite the long borders.

Natural resources- Huge reserves of coal, oil, iron, timber and the aforementioned farmland greatly helped 19th century US economy boom. State directed investment in building railroads transported coal and other resources across the country.

Protectionism- The US employed the highest import tariffs in it's history to protect it's domestic manufacturing base from cheaper foreign imports. Only once did they become competitive on the world market did it lower the tarrifs. E.g the average tarriff during 1870 was 44.6%, today it's less than 2%.



Badassbab said:

Keeping to your original topic which is to say 19th century US Economy post Civil War (since that's when the economy took off and presumably this is the period you are talking about)-

Geography- Mass arable farming land and one of the best interconnected navigable rivers in the world so low transport investment required. Some of the worlds best natural habours and all year round warm water ports. Barrier islands protects US coasts from bad weather. Pacific and Atlantic protected it from the major land armies of Europe. Peace with Canada and Mexico meant no large standing armies required to the north or south despite the long borders.

Natural resources- Huge reserves of coal, oil, iron, timber and the aforementioned farmland greatly helped 19th century US economy boom. State directed investment in building railroads transported coal and other resources across the country.

Protectionism- The US employed the highest import tariffs in it's history to protect it's domestic manufacturing base from cheaper foreign imports. Only once did they become competitive on the world market did it lower the tarrifs. E.g the average tarriff during 1870 was 44.6%, today it's less than 2%.

Yes, fantastic, you listed the US's natural resources, and protectionist policies. The point of my post clearly went over your head, though.