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Forums - Sony Discussion - Vita’s fight for life: After almost a year, has Sony’s handheld managed to distinguish itself?

NightDragon83 said:
Mmmfishtacos said:
NightDragon83 said:
What I simply cannot believe is that after all these years in the industry, and looking at the failures of previous companies' forays into the handheld market attempting to dethrone Nintendo (and usually failing miserably), Sony STILL hasn't gotten one simple fact through their thick skulls... the market for handheld devices dedicated to gaming has always skewed young. And yet Sony continues to by and large ignore the under-13 crowd while trying to appeal to the 20 and 30 something techie / hipster crowd with sleek, powerful handhelds that are jacks of all trades but masters of none.

Nintendo (up until the launch of the 3DS) has always made great handhelds that were...
1: Affordable
2: Durable / good battery life
3: Kid friendly with a library of games to match.

All of Nintendo's competitors released handhelds that were the antithesis to these three things...
1: More expensive
2: Not as durable / poor battery life
3: Not as kid friendly with a poor library of kid friendly games.

Until Sony changes their attitude towards the handheld market, they might as well just give up on it and focus on their home consoles for the time being.


Right because 75 million + psp's is failing.  Going againts everything you stated makes a portable a sucess.  They start off high, and then become pretty cheap.  Vita is a master at all it does.  Expecially compairing it to the 3ds.  Your right in one respect tho, they do need more games for the 13 and under crowed.  Parents will buy anything for their kids if it makes them shut up.  So puting out Kiddy games and advertising the cap out of them during Saturday morning cartoons will do wonders for the device. 

I don't think it was a failure, but compared to 150 million + DS's, I'd say the PSP was definitely a disappointment, especially when you consider how strong the Playstation brand was when it launched compared to Nintendo's sorry state back in '04/'05, unlike today where Sony is no longer king of the hill and the PSV is on life support in some territories while Nintendo has reclaimed the #1 spot.  And the only reason the PSP sold as much as it did was because it was easy to hack and to put homebrew / pirated software on it.  The PSP has been dead in the West, especially North America, for years now, and the Vita looks to be following suit much quicker.  I'm not sure if it's a master at all it does, but it's definitely a master at sitting on store shelves.

And don't be so quick to knock the "kiddy" games and image.  I know its a popular thing to do against Nintendo (see Sony's "babysitter" comment in reference to the DS/3DS), but it's the kiddy looking "babysitter" system with the kiddy games that prints money, not the expensive "cool" and "mature" looking one.  Unfortunately for the Vita though, no amount of "kiddy" games will save it because no parent is going to drop $250 on a handheld for their kid in the first place.  Nintendo learned that the hard way and corrected their mistake by dropping the 3DS's price by $80, and now it's back on top of the weekly sales charts like its predecessor was for the past 6 + years.  Again, cheaper handheld with the bigger and better library of kid-friendly games wins every time.

You're not sure because you haven’t spent time with one let alone touch one. 

The bolded is nothing but speculation, you can't prove. 

The underlined, you can leave your trollish comments at the door. It's isn't needed.

75 million is a smashing success when you consider it's their first handheld, Nintendo could have sold twice as many DS and still wouldn't change that fact. Because its success isn't measured on how well it does compared to something else.



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vita has no competition, it will not go out of the market like the dreamcast, the dreamcast had direct competitors, unlike the vita

the vita can't do worse than how it's doing now

it can only get better



Mmmfishtacos said:

You're not sure because you haven’t spent time with one let alone touch one. 

The bolded is nothing but speculation, you can't prove. 

The underlined, you can leave your trollish comments at the door. It's isn't needed.

75 million is a smashing success when you consider it's their first handheld, Nintendo could have sold twice as many DS and still wouldn't change that fact. Because its success isn't measured on how well it does compared to something else.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXLlhbJY5MA

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/howtos/howto_hack_your_psp_easy_way?page=0,1

http://pspslimhacks.com/easy-chickhen-custom-firmware-installer-without-pandora/

http://psp.scenebeta.com/tutorial/how-hack-psp-slim

Different ways to hack the system, most of them are pretty easy compare to other consoles/handhelds

Edit: note that this is actual hacking (to manipulate firmwares and other stuff), not homebrew or pirated software which is far more easier



Nintendo and PC gamer

mike_intellivision said:
Sony has a wonderful piece of technology in the Vita. However, it might be the wrong piece of technology for the wrong time.

At $250 WiFi (USD) and $300 3G (USD), it costs more than both its gaming competitor (3DS) and some handheld devices which can play games and music (iPod). Nintendo realized it was selling the 3DS at too high of a price point and cut the price, taking a loss (and a PR hit) in the process. Sony's financial situation makes it much more problematic to do the same thing immediately.

Related to this, there have been PR blunders. Most recently, saying that there would be a price cut next year, which is a "sales killer" since people will now "wait" instead of buying. If it is not something you need immediately, many people will wait out an anticipated $50 price reduction. (The only worse way to kill sales is to announce the replacement 18 months before release -- see Nintendo Wii). Also, billing the unit as being an extension of/controller for the PS3 sends the wrong message to non-PS3 owners.

Sony has also chosen to emphasize the technology that you can "play" your PS3 games and have console-like experiences with Vita games. As has been pointed out by others, much of the time gaming-on-the-go means quick hits not long play sessions. Mobile devices offer mostly quick hits. The 3DS offers both. Sony has gone in the wrong direction with its long-play emphasis.

Finally, Sony has also gone in the wrong direction with compatibility. Since you cannot just pop in your PSP game into your Vita, there is no loyalty. People can buy whatever they want/feel like since there is no inherent benefit to staying with the Sony brand. Conversely, Nintendo has always had one level of backward-compatibility in its handhelds: GBC played GB. GBA played GBC (and GB); DS played GBA; 3DS plays DS. Buy doing this, Nintendo has people locked into their systems who played the previous system since they can bring over all their previous generation games. Sony has some of this going on with the unified PSN, but not nearly as much.

So, in closing, the Vita costs too much compared to the competition and what it does, it emphasized the wrong type of games for a handheld, and it does not have backward-compatibility to PSP users (which would cause immediate appeal).

Mike from Morgantown


Ok this made alot of sense to me you should be hired by sony lol, having a vita your psp statement made the most sense, the fact that i had to sell off all my games as i could no longer use them made me think what was the point of buying them and being loyal in the first place



Mmmfishtacos said: Vita is a master at all it does.  Expecially compairing it to the 3ds. 


Including failure rates right? I've heard stories of them setting on fire :P

I joke. But seriously the_dengle I think your being a tad over dramatic here. Yeah vita has had killer apps but we knew none of them were mainstream. Besides gran turismo sony don't have stuff that make an impact on the level nintendo's franchises do.

Now bear with me here, I don't think assassin's creed and call of duty will sell as much as people think. I think they will sell enough to put vita on the map though. If those two completely flop we'll talk. Until then bringing up franchises anybody outside sony fanboys knew were going to flop is pointless. It is very rare for a widely established system brand to fail. Thats not to say it can't happen. But the chances of it happening are low. Very low.

And like I said before, sony are so stubborn they won't let it happen. Unless reatilers start to drop it it will sell well in the end.



One more thing to complete my year = senran kagura localization =D

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JoeTheBro said:
fillet said:
JoeTheBro said:
Marketing marketing marketing.

Just reading most of these comments shows Sony has failed at marketing the Vita. We are all hardcore gamers who should know better and yet even many of us are shouting fallacies.

In America, the Vita has a great lineup and "hazgaemz". Uncharted, Wipeout, Escape Plan, Super Stardust Delta, Gravity Rush, and Little Big Planet are all amazing games that are just as good if not better than their console equivalents. I'm not saying the Vita plays console games on the go, but that it's just as fun. Heck LBP Vita is undoubtedly better than LBP2 even when playing at home. This is only 9 months after launch and the Vita already has six defining games. Sadly only people with a Vita know this because Sony's marketing sucks.

The Vita is also getting great games in America. Assassin's Creed Liberation, PSASBR, Tearaway, Killzone, and Gravity Rush 2 are all announced and coming. Again many more games are coming but these are the system sellers. If only Sony marketed them.

Have any of you guys even heard of PlayStation Mobile? It launched yesterday allowing anyone for free to develop apps and games for Vita and other certified platforms. With time the Vita will have everything smartphones have except again Sony fails to educate people about this.

The Vita is a great system that can thrive in today's smartphone world as long as people actually know what it does. Plus an official $50 price cut wouldn't hurt.


Strongly disagree with most of that. I believe people know exactly what type of games are on it and simply aren't interested in a portable Uncharted and games like that. It's the same as with the PSP, the type of games were basically stripped down full console games. I don't think people want that anymore.

Thank you for proving my point: you don't know what you are talking about.

 

Uncharted Golden Abyss is not as grand as Uncharted 3 but it never tries to be. If we compared Uncharted GA to Uncharted 1 the Vita version (in my opinion as an Uncharted fan) is better in almost every way. Uncharted 2 and 3 continued the series by becoming more epic and large scale while Uncharted GA expanded other aspects. It's a different beast.

 

Wipeout 2048 IS the console games HD and Fury (if you have them on PS3) plus its own campaign and extras. Not a stripped down console game.

 

LBP Vita has everything from LBP 1 and 2 except their levels. The Vita version expands on this with even more content and tools as well as a highly improved create mode. Again I have no idea how you could consider this a stripped down console game.

 

I do Understand people calling Uncharted stripped down since it is different (even though I disagree), but how can you say Wipeout 2048 and LBP Vita are?


You've totally misinterpreted what I'm saying.

I'm agreeing with you, "a stripped down console game", is exactly what Uncharted on the Vita is. It's basically Uncharted - but portable. This is not what people want in a portable imo. If people wanted to play Uncharted, they'd play it on a PS3. This is the same trap the PSP fell into, I just don't think people want the same exeperience a PS3 provides, only on a more cut down level. Just like with the PSP I don't think people wanted a cut down PS2 experience.

Most people actually play portables at home anyway when it comes down to it and want to play something a little different without dragging out the PS3 or Xbox or whatever and play something quirky and unique that you don't get on a console.

Maybe I'm talking too much from what I personally want, but I saw it was a running theme on the PSP, you with games near the end like Resistance....who the hell wants to play Resistance on a PSP?

I very much enjoyed the RPGs on the PSP, they were a bit different to anything available on the PS2 at the time, have character too.

Stuff like Patapon was good, but that novelty factor is wearing a bit thin and there's only so much of that "new" type of game people can take in the vein of Echochrome and stardust hd and whatnot. The Vita needs new IPs that aren't on a console, no silly spin offs, you games that are actually FOR the Vita, but who's going to risk making them?



@fillet the same can be said about mario on the 3ds, or zelda on the 3ds

why play it on the 3ds if you can play it on the wii

why play kingdom hearts and resident evil on the 3ds if you can play it on a home console?



HeavenlyWarrior said:
@fillet the same can be said about mario on the 3ds, or zelda on the 3ds

why play it on the 3ds if you can play it on the wii

why play kingdom hearts and resident evil on the 3ds if you can play it on a home console?

Because that's the clue.

When Nintendo makes a console like game like Mario 3D and Zelda, they use their main teams for them. The same team that made Twilight Princess made Spirit Tracks. Instead of them being watered down and developed by B-teams, the console-like games on Nintendo handhelds are always full-on entries in their respective series. They are their 'own' games. It has been so since GameBoy.

People notice this, it pays off.

And Revelations did it very smart, while it is a console game, dividing it in short 'episodes' was a smart thing to do to get handheld-like short spurts of gameplay. But still it only sold 600k, most likely because of the different demographic on portables.



HeavenlyWarrior said:
vita has no competition, it will not go out of the market like the dreamcast, the dreamcast had direct competitors, unlike the vita

the vita can't do worse than how it's doing now

it can only get better


LOL. Just like the Xbox 360 and PS3 weren't competing with Wii, right?

Vita has a direct competitor. It's called the 3DS.



HeavenlyWarrior said:
@fillet the same can be said about mario on the 3ds, or zelda on the 3ds

why play it on the 3ds if you can play it on the wii

why play kingdom hearts and resident evil on the 3ds if you can play it on a home console?


S.Peelman has said something I wasn't going to say, but has hit the nail on the head. I'll openly admit I'm not 100% on this and I've only put a few hours into the top 3DS games as I don't own one. But Super Mario 3D land for example, it feels like it's own game. It feels like it belongs on the 3DS and not a port of a console game as well as having character. I'm sure I'm in the minority but I feel that even New Super Mario Bros Wii is a better game on the 3DS and where it belongs.

I agree with your point somewhat about Resident Evil on the 3DS, only played that for half and hour and it felt a bit like I was playing a PSP game, no soul.

The Vita needs new and fresh interesting stuff. But not the novelty stuff, that came on the PSP way too late in it's life. Just remember what the PSP had when it came out, I got it day 1 and what I bought was Ridge Racer, Mercury and Virtua Tennis. All those games felt like they were from a console, except for Mercury but even that didn't have the X factor.

The same is happening with the Vita. I don't want Assasins Credd or Call of Duty. I want fresh personality and character. It's harder for Sony because their characters are mostly just "bad ass" as a replacement for personality.

One thing that would be a sure fire winner imo is some games that DO use old IPs but ones that haven't been used for a long time or done over and over again. I'm thinking a new Jak and Daxter game, but not some crappy watered down rubbish like just Daxter starring in his own game but a full on continuation of the genuine original trilogy with some proper money spent on it.

Ideally new IPs would be better but that's very unlikely in a big budget sense.

This is the sort of thing that would make me and I believe a lot of people in my mindset give the Vita a go. In any case, Sony need to take some proper risks if they are to make a success of it at this point in my opinion and for it not to end up like the PSP with drab and boring game after drab and boring game with maybe 1-2 games a year that people think are great.

I'm thinking the recent character reveal of Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale sums up the problem, Sony don't have the go-to characters that are familiar and give them a free ticket. People LIKE nintendo characters, they don't think they're "cool". They just genuinely like them. With characters that are just "cool", you're not going to get the hearts and minds of the buyer. The one exception to this is Jak and Daxter. I would have said the same thing for Ratchet and Clank but they've been exploited too much the past few years and lost the love of people like myself at least....On the other hand Quark is a good character and likeable, he's far from cool and quite fresh.

I know on forums like this everyone loves Kratos and Nathan Drake, but in the physical world, I don't think that is the case at all and that's where the buyers are.

...Sorry kinda just thinking as I type but I spose they are my thoughts. Not saying I'm 100% right, just a feeling of the situation.