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Forums - Politics Discussion - Economist: civilization may not survive "death spiral"

Can the economy declare bankruptcy?



           

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blkfish92 said:
Can the economy declare bankruptcy?


The United States escaped default twice, which technically qualifies as such for a sovereign state, by unbounding the dollar to any intrinsic value, opened the way for a huge ammount of money who shouldn't really be worth anything and that's precisely what is causing a large part of the problem right now. By avoiding economic depression it probably laid the seeds of something far worse.



 

 

 

 

 

haxxiy said:
blkfish92 said:
Can the economy declare bankruptcy?


The United States escaped default twice, which technically qualifies as such for a sovereign state, by unbounding the dollar to any intrinsic value, opened the way for a huge ammount of money who shouldn't really be worth anything and that's precisely what is causing a large part of the problem right now. By avoiding economic depression it probably laid the seeds of something far worse.


Well SHIET



           

richardhutnik said:
the2real4mafol said:
JGarret said:
Slimebeast said:
America is simply too strong to fall. The most powerful civilization in history after Rome.

This may sound slightly ironic since we all know Rome fell, but I truly believe history won't repeat itself in America's case.


There´s no 'too strong to fall'...one day the U.S will 'fall', and then the nation that becomes "number one" will also 'fall' eventually, there´s no 'too strong to fall' when it comes to our human society.

All the great civilizations collapse at some point, one day it will happen to the US too. Look, at Ancient Greece, the romans, the ottomans, The USSR and the British Empire, as some examples. All great powers at one time, not any more

They collapse as empires, but it doesn't mean they disappear as nations.  Even Rome is still about, as is England and Russia.  We have had an era of Pax Americana, post-Cold War period, and 9/11 ended up being the transitioning out of that period.  Who knows what the future holds.  No word it will be positive. Those who hold positive determinism have only their own ungrounded optimism to sustain it.


Nations aren't likely as to fall in today's modern era. Ottomans fell because of the World War, thats what happens when you take stand against the world's allied powers. The British Empire only "fell" because the rise of a new modern era of guidelines and government. England is still a VERY powerful nation. The USSR was never really meant to succeed. Look at the World wars, and the Cold War. But Russia is still a nation. 

So to say that the states will fall is a little too steep. We won't be top dogs much longer (China and India) but we will still be a World power. We've been through worse in terrible times. But as technology and the new era comes, its only hard to imagine how a nation would fall. Thank you technology, internet, and wahtever else that has improved our lives.



iFlow said:


Nations aren't likely as to fall in today's modern era. Ottomans fell because of the World War, thats what happens when you take stand against the world's allied powers. The British Empire only "fell" because the rise of a new modern era of guidelines and government. England is still a VERY powerful nation. The USSR was never really meant to succeed. Look at the World wars, and the Cold War. But Russia is still a nation. 

So to say that the states will fall is a little too steep. We won't be top dogs much longer (China and India) but we will still be a World power. We've been through worse in terrible times. But as technology and the new era comes, its only hard to imagine how a nation would fall. Thank you technology, internet, and wahtever else that has improved our lives.


Weapons is about the only thing USA can produce now.  To have your economy based on a consumer economy probably isn't the smartest idea.  A nation has to be able to produce something.  Sadly our manufacturing base has shrunk a lot due to lay offs and outsourcing.  Manufacturing industry used to be where you could make a decent wage.  Most manufacturing jobs in Texas pay no more than 8-10 dollars a hour for the average worker (not talking about engineers, management, etc).  Pretty hard to support yourself let alone a family on less than 10 dollars a hour.  Manufacturing in USA is a joke and the only thing you can except is that you will probably be laid off.



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Mr Khan said:
Mnementh said:
This is talking about debts, money and the like. Goods will be produced by companies, that at the moment work. Problem is, that both are entangled. But money exists because the government made rules for it. If the economy is in trouble only because of the financial system, the government has many ways to do something. Most of this will not be good for banks and other financial institutes, but as they produce nothing really valuable it will be acceptable in a situation of crisis.

That's what i was thinking, too. The joys of a fiat money system is that, at the extreme of things, it can all be rewritten and handwaved away. To the detriment of big banks and major stockholders, but what have those folks done except screw us over in the past four years anyway?

From memory, wasn't their a big peace movement crap in 1999 that in the year 2000 all 3rd world debts debts should be wavedd so that they stop cutting trees (mainly brazil) as they currently only do in order to pay of their interest on their debts. It was all about saving the environemnt and helping the 3rd world develope without destorying the earth.

That didn't go down so well then, so I don't know if a peaceful option can existing for a simple wave the debts and start with a clean slate.



 

 

America may fall but they won't fall very much only a few countries may rise above the States and China is the only one right now in a position to do so, Most previous empires fell because they lost control over countries they colonized (roman, Britain, Mongol, Russian) you don't really have that problem with the States since they don't have colonies. America is the third largest Country and third in Population So they will always have some level of power unless some batman shit happens



Bet reminder: I bet with Tboned51 that Splatoon won't reach the 1 million shipped mark by the end of 2015. I win if he loses and I lose if I lost.

"I would go along and I would see people building a bridge, or they'd be making a new road, and I thought, they're crazy, they just don't understand, they don't understand. Why are they making new things? It's so useless. But, fortunately, it's been useless for almost forty years now, hasn't it? So I've been wrong about it being useless making bridges and I'm glad those other people had the sense to go ahead."



Well then again, i suppose if by civilization he meant outlook of life, vs country, i suppose that could be the case.

I mean, if our debt problems got bad enough we could always fuck up our country, civilization and outlook on the economy like Venezuela has.



I don't entirely understand how the financial system works. I'm sure the average person does not. Perhaps this is why we get screwed over so much. Maybe it's because only a minority of people actually know how the financial system works and uses that knowledge to keep themselves rich. Nonetheless, I hope this country can solve it's financial problems. I would hate to see the USA go the way of the Roman Empire. The sad truth is the US does not have the thousands of years of history that other nations have. For the last 236 years, the United States has existed only because people believed in it. During the American Civil War, that belief was put to the test and not since then, even with all the political unrest in the 1960's and 70's has that belief been tested more than now, maybe with the exception of the Great Depression.

The day people stop believing in America is the day America can no longer exist.



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