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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Sex and the Zero Suit: Why Samus was Great Only in Metroid Prime

KylieDog said:

When on the job Samus wears her armoured suit and takes the job seriously, there is no attempted sex appeal by her and she kicks ass, this sort of character is great. When the job is over she ditches the suit revealing herself as the sexy woman underneath, nothing wrong with this as the job and danger is over, nothing wrong with being sexy when appropiate. In some exceptions if a character is forced to lose armour through damage or being captured, but regains it first chance they can it is also fine, that isn't the characters choice. The bad sort of sexy character is one who can prepare and wear armour or full clothing but still chooses to run into battle in bikinis and stuff.

This is something I am going to grant you in principle because early Lara Croft is fantastic for these reasons: both sexy and powerful. Nothing wrong with being sexy and powerful when you are the engine of your own agency.

Samus's sex has never been treated that way, though. It' a reward for players, which serves to commodify Samus's body at the same time that it removes the player from being Samus, which goes against the idea of assuming the role of the character altogether.



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Soleron said:
I've thought about this myself (struggling with the Samus is a girl but it shouldn't matter thing) and I like this conclusion.

Are you just not comfortable playing as a female protagonist?



Jumpin said:

You can't see Samus 99% of the time in the prime games. I could never help but to feel the experience is cheapened by not having the game in third person.

Also, female characters who are more or less male characters with masculine traits, but with female parts - only seems like they were made to target teenaged male gamers who are insecure about playing female characters.

There is nothing male or female about Samus in her suit. That's the beauty of the character. When given a faceless or voiceless hero in video games, we assume they are male because in video games masculinity is the default state of being. Samus turns that on its head while maintaining immersion for players.



Khuutra said:
Soleron said:
I've thought about this myself (struggling with the Samus is a girl but it shouldn't matter thing) and I like this conclusion.

Are you just not comfortable playing as a female protagonist?

No, nothing like that. Game character and story don't matter to me because it's a projection of self, but I wanted to reconcile why other people who write/talk about the game were obsessed over Samus being female, yet emphasising female aspects of her character weakened Other M. Your post explains this.

What I like so much about Prime is that the story got out of the player's way so they could tell their own story by playing.



Khuutra said:
Mr Khan said:
Ho... Hmm...

There is much to reflect on, here.

I would say, in a pre-Other M world, that this whole affair is a bunch of sound and fury signifying nothing. Her sexualization was incidental, simply an expansion upon the reward that was offered up in the first game, which itself was a last-minute addition for shock value. It was a way of saying "you've reached a better tier of reward," without explicitly saying so. Indeed, in Metroid Prime 2 & 3, the bigger reward wasn't getting to see more of ZSS, but getting the sequel hook instead.

Other M is a whole separate discussion, of course, one in which we both have made our opinions well known over the years, and where a lot of the apparent sexism can be attributed merely to lack of context (in why exactly she froze up over Ridley) and cultural blind-spots (over the unflinching obedience to Adam). The only indisputably egregious matter there is the heels in the Zero Suit

Of course, your argument asks for more games in the vein of Metroid Prime, something i would very much want (best game EVAR), but i feel that a lot of this hardly qualifies as sexism, but something that sorta looks like sexism if you squint at it right.

I'm not going to suggest that you are viewing this through the lens of attachment to the standing characterization and status quo of the character, but I think it might be possible that you're viewing the game in a softer light than you should.

Her sexualization was not incidental. It might be - in theory - if it were incidental throughout the course of the game, but it's not. Her sexualization serves to incentivize high-level play, which has turned Samus's body into a commodity against which we bargain our skills and our time.

This, in itself, is not necessarily problematic, but in the context of a character like Samus it is immensely egregious.

So in this context, her incidental sexualization throughout, say, Other M or Zero Mission is less egregious than making it a reward (as in other games)?

Rol said it better than i could. It's like getting different sized mansions at the end of Luigi's Mansion. Such an incentive makes no statement about, say, the virtues of homeownership, nor does getting Samus in different degrees of (and i really hate to use this term) undress necessarily make her a sex object.

Now, if she were posing, or if they were showing something more provocative than a bit of midriff, i might be inclined to agree, but as it is, they're showing a woman who is, for all intents and in-context purposes, clothed in a practical manner, except for the bikini in the original game, but that can be excused via hardware limitations.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Soleron said:
Khuutra said:
Soleron said:
I've thought about this myself (struggling with the Samus is a girl but it shouldn't matter thing) and I like this conclusion.

Are you just not comfortable playing as a female protagonist?

No, nothing like that. Game character and story don't matter to me because it's a projection of self, but I wanted to reconcile why other people who write/talk about the game were obsessed over Samus being female, yet emphasising female aspects of her character weakened Other M. Your post explains this.

Oh, I see. I apologize for being presumptive, and am glad that I could lend some context to that.



Mr Khan said:

So in this context, her incidental sexualization throughout, say, Other M or Zero Mission is less egregious than making it a reward (as in other games)?

Rol said it better than i could. It's like getting different sized mansions at the end of Luigi's Mansion. Such an incentive makes no statement about, say, the virtues of homeownership, nor does getting Samus in different degrees of (and i really hate to use this term) undress necessarily make her a sex object.

Now, if she were posing, or if they were showing something more provocative than a bit of midriff, i might be inclined to agree, but as it is, they're showing a woman who is, for all intents and in-context purposes, clothed in a practical manner, except for the bikini in the original game, but that can be excused via hardware limitations.

I'll get to Rol in a minute; I'm going to have to rip him a new ass in order to make the point he needs, but I think I can communicate myself more easily here.

1. I'm going to point out that the progression of Samus's undergarments goes Space Swimsuit -> Tank top and panties -> space tank top and panties -> space tank top and booty shorts -> basically naked but painted blue. There are various shades to that, of course, since Zero Mission had about a zillion different undressed states to see her in.

2. Do you agree that they use Samus's sex as a reward to encourage high-level play in Metroid, Return of Samus, Super Metroid, Zero Mission, and Metroid Fusion?



Great piece. Keep the good job.



The more I read these types of articles, and then go out into the real world, and then read more of these articles, and then go out into the real world again, rinse and repeat...

The more I feel like this is pointless nerd arguing. Have you guys stepped outside, gone to the mall, beach, or a party and seen what females in our society are like?

That point aside, sexual desires form the very basic of our survival and of course they'll be easy to trigger and easy to sell. Almost all industries use this to sell (even shampoo for girls!) and here we are worrying about a full-bodied blue suit that, while tight, shows 0.5% of her body's skin.

I just don't "get" this politically correct movement in video games. If you want to change something, change it in society. But good luck changing human beings to reject sexual temptation in both buyers and sellers.

Also, one last point, the money will dictate where the funds go. If people want the industry to change, they need to monetarily SUPPORT that change. You don't change an industry by whining and making a new sexism article every week. You do it by not financially supporting those games, and then supporting games that do instead support the ideals you want to succeed.



wfz said:

The more I read these types of articles, and then go out into the real world, and then read more of these articles, and then go out into the real world again, rinse and repeat...

The more I feel like this is pointless nerd arguing. Have you guys stepped outside, gone to the mall, beach, or a party and seen what females in our society are like?

That point aside, sexual desires form the very basic of our survival and of course they'll be easy to trigger and easy to sell. Almost all industries use this to sell (even shampoo for girls!) and here we are worrying about a full-bodied blue suit that, while tight, shows 0.5% of her body's skin.

I just don't "get" this politically correct movement in video games. If you want to change something, change it in society. But good luck changing human beings to reject sexual temptation in both buyers and sellers.

Also, one last point, the money will dictate where the funds go. If people want the industry to change, they need to monetarily SUPPORT that change. You don't change an industry by whining and making a new sexism article every week. You do it by not financially supporting those games, and then supporting games that do instead support the ideals you want to succeed.

So did you even read what I wrote up there, or...

I'm married and I care a lot about gender issues in all iterations that they take on over time. It's one of the consequences of my life choices that I have gotten to know lots of strangers, many of them women, and I have tried to be very open about issues that affect representation on various levels.

There is nothing "politically correct" in what I was writing. This is a discussion about the nature of the faceless/voiceless protagonist and how that's undermined in two key ways by using Samus's body as incentive for high-level play. More, it's about why the original Metroid Prime hit the perfect note for this character, cementing that particular iteration of her as the ultimate example of the faceless hero archetype.

All changes begin with discussion, and encouraging people to not discuss something is measurably worse than just staying out of it.

http://www.gamrreview.com/article/89151/devils-advocate-sexism-in-videogames/ Is this an article you would agree with?