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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - PlayStation All-Stars’ Developers Want Super Mario To Join Sony’s Brawler

Jay520 on 17 July 2012
crissindahouse said:
@ jay

what are you always doing? i see now the fifth time or so in the last months that the thread is broken with your post. no clue what you do^^



no idea, this stuff always happens, trying to fix it now.

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outlawauron on 17 July 2012
o_O.Q said:
SlumsofOhio said:
I keep hearing about how Playstation All-Stars is similar to Smash Brothers. So does Smash Bros have a combo system unique to each character? How about supers? Are there three different throws, giving you a unique setup depending on the individual throw? Are the stages constantly evolving?

Other than the game being a 2D fighter with floaty controls, is their any similarities?

Does anyone know? I haven't played the recent Smash Brothers, so I can't answer these questions.


yes to the bolded ( 4 different throws actually ) and yes some stages do change but the stages in playstation all stars seem way more dynamic

Smash has combo unique to each character? It's the same stuff with every character. You have normal 'A' attacks and your variants of 'B' attacks (up B, down B, B, and <- and/or -> B). That's it as far as combos go and it's stayed the same since the original.



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Turkish on 17 July 2012

Nintendo should let Mario become part of the best brawler game to release.



sales2099 on 17 July 2012

They want Mario for sales, not for variety.



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JWeinCom on 17 July 2012

"It definitely could use more complexity but I have yet to see anything like that in a game in that genre. It's a really unique addition that is 'not' progessive improvement from their previous game as you mentioned. Just because something is not impressive or complex enough for you doesn't mean it's not innovative or a new idea. That's like me saying the first 2d platformer is not innovations because it's way too simple.

It doesn't change the genre? That is yet to be seen. Does it bring something new and unique to it? most definitely. You are acting the same way the guy I argued with earlier did.

And I disagree about your last statement. I'm also in quite a few forums but I have yet to see anything of this level in any of them. It really shows when it comes to certain topics such as this game. Guess we will agree to disagree on that matter"

TBH I don't think they should be given praise for being innovative unless it's something done well.



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M.U.G.E.N on 17 July 2012
JWeinCom said:
"It definitely could use more complexity but I have yet to see anything like that in a game in that genre. It's a really unique addition that is 'not' progessive improvement from their previous game as you mentioned. Just because something is not impressive or complex enough for you doesn't mean it's not innovative or a new idea. That's like me saying the first 2d platformer is not innovations because it's way too simple.

It doesn't change the genre? That is yet to be seen. Does it bring something new and unique to it? most definitely. You are acting the same way the guy I argued with earlier did.

And I disagree about your last statement. I'm also in quite a few forums but I have yet to see anything of this level in any of them. It really shows when it comes to certain topics such as this game. Guess we will agree to disagree on that matter"

TBH I don't think they should be given praise for being innovative unless it's something done well.


it IS done well, taking the nature of the game into account and also the fact that it's the first time it has been done. Such things improve with time. Like LBP..LBP2 just went nuts with it. Doesn't mean it should be praised and credited for trying something new and unique



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o_O.Q on 17 July 2012
JWeinCom said:
o_O.Q said:
JWeinCom said:
"you haven't answered my question "what is so differentiating about those games?""

In the case of Kid Icarus, it's a matter of controls. There is no game that controls like Kid Icarus Uprising, which uses a unique twitch based combat system. Have you played the game? Because it's a bit difficult to describe. The game also features a unique weapon building (or breeding) system which is incredibly deep, and unique to anything in other games. The difficulty system, the fiend's cauldron, is another innovative mechanic that presents a different idea on how to change difficulty. The game also features a unique spin on multiplayer (light vs dark is a blend of traditional team battles and juggernauts mode) and so on. The game also has a comical vibe that helps it stand apart from most games.

Luigi's Mansion again is mechanically different than pretty much anything out there. The battle (or vacuuming) mechanics are different from pretty much any game out there, as is the overall theme of the game. Simply put, there aren't a whole lot of games that revolve around vacuuming ghosts.

"what is playstation home? isn't playstation home a minigame hub?"

Home has minigames for sure, but it always struck me as more of a second life kind of thing that really focuses on social interaction and personalization. It's actually something that is pretty unique that I didn't give Sony credit for. So far, it doesn't seem like Nintendo is going that route with Nintendo Land. I could be wrong, but Nintendoland doesn't seem like a virtual hang out of anykind. The theme park itself just seems like a glorified menu. The innovation comes in the form of the actual minigames.

"thats pretty ironic as i've heard people say the same thing of wii sports"

I think people say this because they're looking at Wii Sports from the hardcore gaming point of view. The beauty of Wii Sports is that it's something very simple and intuitive, and it struck a chord with casual gamers like nothing has before. It was something I was able to play with my 5 year old brother, my 50 year old mother, and everyone in between. Regardless, the point isn't necessarily how polished the products are. The point is, that the products in question are very different.

"so sony and microsoft didn't do the same when they released their own motion sports games?"

I'm just going to focus on Sony, and no, I don't think they did. The Playstation Move is fundamentally the same as the Wii mote, and only offers mild advantages over the Wii-mote +. Ping Pong was something we'd done in Wii Sports Resort, as was Frisbee golf. The differences in those games were mainly visual. Archery again was pretty much the same as Wii Sports Resort. Sword fighting is present in both. In this case, the Sony version is somewhat different in offering a more complex game, although I think the changes are mostly for the worse. Bocce is a random inclusion, and Beach Volleyball is unique. Overall, we have incredibly similar hardware, 3 identical minigames, 1 somewhat altered minigames, and two new ones. Your opinion may differ, but I don't think this is significant change or innovation. Based on the Move's failure, I think that the masses are in agreement.

And that also encapsulates how I feel about Playstation All-Stars. Based on what I've seen, it doesn't seem that this is a significant improvement over Smash Bros, and it doesn't seem to do anything very differently, aside from its KO system. Instead of taking the idea and making it their own, Sony just took the idea.

so basically controls and vacuuming ghosts... so i guess the ugc creater, the varied powers some of which i have yet to see in any other games, the general theme of infamous etc don't make it unique though ok your opinion again which i'm sure others who've played infamous may disagree with

 

" Home has minigames for sure, but it always struck me as more of a second life kind of thing that really focuses on social interaction and personalization ..."

 


" Regardless, the point isn't necessarily how polished the products are "

it isn't? so why say this "It was kind of a neat idea, but it wasn't fleshed out as well as it should have been, and the technology wasn't really there."

which is it?

its funny though i show you how people said the same for wii sports then you instantly change your point lol

 

finally personally i do believe that sports champions offered a significant improvement in terms of controls over wii sports but thats my opinion the same as you have yours

but regardless my point is that if you can say that nintendo took an idea and put their own spin on it then the same has to be said for sony and microsoft 


"so i guess the ugc creater, the varied powers some of which i have yet to see in any other games, the general theme of infamous etc don't make it unique though ok your opinion again which i'm sure others who've played infamous may disagree with"

I don't thing the theme is anything especially unique.  It's well done, but typical comic book fare.  UGC is a good thing, but I don't think its done very well.  I don't think you should get points for innovating if you don't do it right.  Cole's power set isn't anything especially unique from other games.

Anyway, I'm not trying to say "OMG INFAMOUS 2 IS A BLATANT RIP OFF WITH NOTHING TO OFFER".  I like Infamous 2 alot.   I'm just saying that it's a very well done and polished games, but it doesn't really do much to advance its genre.  Think people are blowing this a bit out of proportion. That's the problem I have with Sony in general.  I think they make great and polished products, but they don't go the extra mile to create something truly unique.

"basically all you're really saying is that home is more fleshed out but regradless the point still remains that if one chooses to do so home can be used as a hub to possibly hundreds of mini games ( which i may be wrong in saying is what nintendo is planning to do )"

Not really. What I'm saying is that they're two very different products that shouldn't be compared.  It's not a matter of fleshed out vs not fleshed out or better vs worse.  It's just two very different things. 

"it isn't? so why say this "It was kind of a neat idea, but it wasn't fleshed out as well as it should have been, and the technology wasn't really there."

That was just kind of a comment about eyetoy kinetic in general, not a comparison between the two.  But to make myself clear, I think that Wii Sports and Wii Fit are a vast improvement over what Eyetoy offered, and provide significantly upgraded and unique features.  Do you disagree with that?

 

"finally personally i do believe that sports champions offered a significant improvement in terms of controls over wii sports but thats my opinion the same as you have yours"

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.  I didn't find that Sports Champions really offered better controls.

"but regardless my point is that if you can say that nintendo took an idea and put their own spin on it then the same has to be said for sony and microsoft"

Of course the same thing can be said!  Again, let's go to Little Big Planet.  Sony took an established genre and made it their own with an emphasis on UGC.  Heavy Rain took the classing "interactive movie" formula and really changed how the controls were used to bring you into the experience, as well as offering more freedom in how the story develops.

My point isn't that Sony NEVER does anything innovative as some people are making it out to be.  My point is that Sony really doesn't do enough of this.

To take things back to the begining, do you really think that Sony Playstation All-Stars offers something that improves and innovates the Smash Brothers formula?  Personally, I don't think the changes they offer are enough to make the game stand out from its obvious inspiration.


"but it doesn't really do much to advance its genre."

ok so by comparison what do the games you mentioned do to advance their genres?

 

"hey're two very different products that shouldn't be compared."

yeah very different... one is a hub where you meet up ith your friends to play mini games... and the other is a hub where you meet up ith your friends to play mini games with other activities thrown into the mix...

 

 I think that Wii Sports and Wii Fit are a vast improvement over what Eyetoy offered, and provide significantly upgraded and unique features.  Do you disagree with that?"

of course i do

 

"do you really think that Sony Playstation All-Stars offers something that improves and innovates the Smash Brothers formula?"

how can i be expected to answer that question on a game i haven't played and don't have the full information on?



o_O.Q on 17 July 2012
outlawauron said:
o_O.Q said:
SlumsofOhio said:
I keep hearing about how Playstation All-Stars is similar to Smash Brothers. So does Smash Bros have a combo system unique to each character? How about supers? Are there three different throws, giving you a unique setup depending on the individual throw? Are the stages constantly evolving?

Other than the game being a 2D fighter with floaty controls, is their any similarities?

Does anyone know? I haven't played the recent Smash Brothers, so I can't answer these questions.


yes to the bolded ( 4 different throws actually ) and yes some stages do change but the stages in playstation all stars seem way more dynamic

Smash has combo unique to each character? It's the same stuff with every character. You have normal 'A' attacks and your variants of 'B' attacks (up B, down B, B, and <- and/or -> B). That's it as far as combos go and it's stayed the same since the original.

yeah you're right but i thought he mean't the combo animations... i guess it should be obvious he wasn't and yeah apparently playstation all stars has unique combo systems for each character 



Torillian on 17 July 2012

I just can't see how this thread was made with any intentions other than trolling. So it's locked, and I suggest you tread lightly for a bit, OP.



...

JWeinCom on 17 July 2012
o_O.Q said:
JWeinCom said:
o_O.Q said:
JWeinCom said:
"you haven't answered my question "what is so differentiating about those games?""

In the case of Kid Icarus, it's a matter of controls. There is no game that controls like Kid Icarus Uprising, which uses a unique twitch based combat system. Have you played the game? Because it's a bit difficult to describe. The game also features a unique weapon building (or breeding) system which is incredibly deep, and unique to anything in other games. The difficulty system, the fiend's cauldron, is another innovative mechanic that presents a different idea on how to change difficulty. The game also features a unique spin on multiplayer (light vs dark is a blend of traditional team battles and juggernauts mode) and so on. The game also has a comical vibe that helps it stand apart from most games.

Luigi's Mansion again is mechanically different than pretty much anything out there. The battle (or vacuuming) mechanics are different from pretty much any game out there, as is the overall theme of the game. Simply put, there aren't a whole lot of games that revolve around vacuuming ghosts.

"what is playstation home? isn't playstation home a minigame hub?"

Home has minigames for sure, but it always struck me as more of a second life kind of thing that really focuses on social interaction and personalization. It's actually something that is pretty unique that I didn't give Sony credit for. So far, it doesn't seem like Nintendo is going that route with Nintendo Land. I could be wrong, but Nintendoland doesn't seem like a virtual hang out of anykind. The theme park itself just seems like a glorified menu. The innovation comes in the form of the actual minigames.

"thats pretty ironic as i've heard people say the same thing of wii sports"

I think people say this because they're looking at Wii Sports from the hardcore gaming point of view. The beauty of Wii Sports is that it's something very simple and intuitive, and it struck a chord with casual gamers like nothing has before. It was something I was able to play with my 5 year old brother, my 50 year old mother, and everyone in between. Regardless, the point isn't necessarily how polished the products are. The point is, that the products in question are very different.

"so sony and microsoft didn't do the same when they released their own motion sports games?"

I'm just going to focus on Sony, and no, I don't think they did. The Playstation Move is fundamentally the same as the Wii mote, and only offers mild advantages over the Wii-mote +. Ping Pong was something we'd done in Wii Sports Resort, as was Frisbee golf. The differences in those games were mainly visual. Archery again was pretty much the same as Wii Sports Resort. Sword fighting is present in both. In this case, the Sony version is somewhat different in offering a more complex game, although I think the changes are mostly for the worse. Bocce is a random inclusion, and Beach Volleyball is unique. Overall, we have incredibly similar hardware, 3 identical minigames, 1 somewhat altered minigames, and two new ones. Your opinion may differ, but I don't think this is significant change or innovation. Based on the Move's failure, I think that the masses are in agreement.

And that also encapsulates how I feel about Playstation All-Stars. Based on what I've seen, it doesn't seem that this is a significant improvement over Smash Bros, and it doesn't seem to do anything very differently, aside from its KO system. Instead of taking the idea and making it their own, Sony just took the idea.

so basically controls and vacuuming ghosts... so i guess the ugc creater, the varied powers some of which i have yet to see in any other games, the general theme of infamous etc don't make it unique though ok your opinion again which i'm sure others who've played infamous may disagree with

 

" Home has minigames for sure, but it always struck me as more of a second life kind of thing that really focuses on social interaction and personalization ..."

 


" Regardless, the point isn't necessarily how polished the products are "

it isn't? so why say this "It was kind of a neat idea, but it wasn't fleshed out as well as it should have been, and the technology wasn't really there."

which is it?

its funny though i show you how people said the same for wii sports then you instantly change your point lol

 

finally personally i do believe that sports champions offered a significant improvement in terms of controls over wii sports but thats my opinion the same as you have yours

but regardless my point is that if you can say that nintendo took an idea and put their own spin on it then the same has to be said for sony and microsoft 


"so i guess the ugc creater, the varied powers some of which i have yet to see in any other games, the general theme of infamous etc don't make it unique though ok your opinion again which i'm sure others who've played infamous may disagree with"

I don't thing the theme is anything especially unique.  It's well done, but typical comic book fare.  UGC is a good thing, but I don't think its done very well.  I don't think you should get points for innovating if you don't do it right.  Cole's power set isn't anything especially unique from other games.

Anyway, I'm not trying to say "OMG INFAMOUS 2 IS A BLATANT RIP OFF WITH NOTHING TO OFFER".  I like Infamous 2 alot.   I'm just saying that it's a very well done and polished games, but it doesn't really do much to advance its genre.  Think people are blowing this a bit out of proportion. That's the problem I have with Sony in general.  I think they make great and polished products, but they don't go the extra mile to create something truly unique.

"basically all you're really saying is that home is more fleshed out but regradless the point still remains that if one chooses to do so home can be used as a hub to possibly hundreds of mini games ( which i may be wrong in saying is what nintendo is planning to do )"

Not really. What I'm saying is that they're two very different products that shouldn't be compared.  It's not a matter of fleshed out vs not fleshed out or better vs worse.  It's just two very different things. 

"it isn't? so why say this "It was kind of a neat idea, but it wasn't fleshed out as well as it should have been, and the technology wasn't really there."

That was just kind of a comment about eyetoy kinetic in general, not a comparison between the two.  But to make myself clear, I think that Wii Sports and Wii Fit are a vast improvement over what Eyetoy offered, and provide significantly upgraded and unique features.  Do you disagree with that?

 

"finally personally i do believe that sports champions offered a significant improvement in terms of controls over wii sports but thats my opinion the same as you have yours"

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.  I didn't find that Sports Champions really offered better controls.

"but regardless my point is that if you can say that nintendo took an idea and put their own spin on it then the same has to be said for sony and microsoft"

Of course the same thing can be said!  Again, let's go to Little Big Planet.  Sony took an established genre and made it their own with an emphasis on UGC.  Heavy Rain took the classing "interactive movie" formula and really changed how the controls were used to bring you into the experience, as well as offering more freedom in how the story develops.

My point isn't that Sony NEVER does anything innovative as some people are making it out to be.  My point is that Sony really doesn't do enough of this.

To take things back to the begining, do you really think that Sony Playstation All-Stars offers something that improves and innovates the Smash Brothers formula?  Personally, I don't think the changes they offer are enough to make the game stand out from its obvious inspiration.


"but it doesn't really do much to advance its genre."

ok so by comparison what do the games you mentioned do to advance their genres?

 

"hey're two very different products that shouldn't be compared."

yeah very different... one is a hub where you meet up ith your friends to play mini games... and the other is a hub where you meet up ith your friends to play mini games with other activities thrown into the mix...

 

 I think that Wii Sports and Wii Fit are a vast improvement over what Eyetoy offered, and provide significantly upgraded and unique features.  Do you disagree with that?"

of course i do

 

"do you really think that Sony Playstation All-Stars offers something that improves and innovates the Smash Brothers formula?"

how can i be expected to answer that question on a game i haven't played and don't have the full information on?

 

ok so by comparison what do the games you mentioned do to advance their genres?

With Luigi's Mansion and Kid Icarus, it's hard to say because I don't think those games fit neatly into any genre.  For a game like let's say... Smash Brothers, it took the fighting genre, and made into something that took a great deal of memorization and skill, and turned it into something that anybody could experience either as a casual or veteran player.  They also completely redefined the way that midair combat is implemented in games etc.

"yeah very different... one is a hub where you meet up ith your friends to play mini games... and the other is a hub where you meet up ith your friends to play mini games with other activities thrown into the mix..."

Home is almost entirely founded on the basis of online interaction and customization whereas Nintendoland seems mainly focussed on offline couch coop.  Online functionality has yet to be detailed, but it does not seem like a focus of Nintendoland.

"I think that Wii Sports and Wii Fit are a vast improvement over what Eyetoy offered, and provide significantly upgraded and unique features.  Do you disagree with that?"

Do you honestly believe this, or are you just being contrary?  While I hate to use sales as a justification, Wii Fit obviously did something different that struck a chord with gamers, which is why it sold about 40 million units to 170,000.  But if you honestly believe that, why is Eyetoy Kinetic better than Wii Fit?

"how can i be expected to answer that question on a game i haven't played and don't have the full information on?"

Speculation based on already available information.  Of course, you're free to change your mind as new info becomes available.  Besides, if you have no trouble proclaiming that Nintendoland is the same as Playstation Home, why are you so reluctant to comment on Playstation All Stars?  We have far more information about All Stars than Nintendoland...