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Forums - Politics Discussion - Egyptian Supreme Court throws out the Parliament

Mr Khan said:
Soleron said:
...

I'd argue that they are, given that they made the push to get Mubarak out, a push that was largely endogenous and was not, in its origins, a movement of the religious. The religious mobilized in response to the opening, but it needs to be seen whether the Islamic Brotherhood can govern responsibly. I would argue they at least need the chance to try before the military and elitist interests take the opportunity away.

Yes. The educated middle classes living in the city pushed for his removal, because they are closer to being secular and unaffiliated. The movement never really energised most of the country's population, and without international pressure Mubarak would never have left. And of course they never achieved their actual goal of having the military out of power. They've been in continuous total control of the country since before Mubarak was around.



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Mr Khan said:
Soleron said:
Their culture is not ready for democracy. They need to get over their uncompromising religion, their tribal customs, and their factionalism.

(Obviously there are rational individuals among them but collectively, Arab society defaults to a feudal state and the only way to stop it is to rule with an iron fist (be that dictator or military council or theocracy). Maybe in two generations people will stop accepting leaders just because they are the same religion or tribe or colour as them.

I'd argue that they are, given that they made the push to get Mubarak out, a push that was largely endogenous and was not, in its origins, a movement of the religious. The religious mobilized in response to the opening, but it needs to be seen whether the Islamic Brotherhood can govern responsibly. I would argue they at least need the chance to try before the military and elitist interests take the opportunity away.

I agree.

If they want to democratically elect religious extremists, that's their choice. And if they run the country into an unmitigated disaster (e.g. attack Israel rather than build the economy), they should pay for it, too.

Freedom comes at great responsibility. If they want freedom without responsibility, they will have a disaster.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

SamuelRSmith said:
sad.man.loves.vgc said:
KungKras said:
Why would they want to prevent the muslim brotherhood from gaining power. As long as it is through democratic processes, just let them rule, and if they mismanage, the public will vote for another party. What's the problem?


Yup. Let people choose and suffer/enoy the consequences and learn their lesson. This is probably the only way.

 

The military has been playing a dirty game. Mubarak was just their puppet after all.


If I was an Egyptian I couldn't care less if every single other person in the country voted for Muslim Brotherhood, I still wouldn't want their shit enforced on me


Yeah, so let's allow this joke to continue and get another Mubarak who will push illiteracy rates above 50% and get even more people to vote based on nothing but religion and lose any slight chance or real democracy to ever happen..../sarcasm

Brotherhood will folliow the turkish model, Turkey isn't bad.



sad.man.loves.vgc said:
SamuelRSmith said:
sad.man.loves.vgc said:
KungKras said:
Why would they want to prevent the muslim brotherhood from gaining power. As long as it is through democratic processes, just let them rule, and if they mismanage, the public will vote for another party. What's the problem?


Yup. Let people choose and suffer/enoy the consequences and learn their lesson. This is probably the only way.

 

The military has been playing a dirty game. Mubarak was just their puppet after all.


If I was an Egyptian I couldn't care less if every single other person in the country voted for Muslim Brotherhood, I still wouldn't want their shit enforced on me


Yeah, so let's allow this joke to continue and get another Mubarak who will push illiteracy rates above 50% and get even more people to vote based on nothing but religion and lose any slight chance or real democracy to ever happen..../sarcasm

Brotherhood will folliow the turkish model, Turkey isn't bad.


Meh, I don't know the ins and out of Egyptian politics. I know the election is between a rock and a hard place. My point was being that " Let people choose and suffer/enoy the consequences and learn their lesson. " isn't fair or just for the people who didn't vote for tyranny.

 

Basically, fuck democracy.



SamuelRSmith said:
sad.man.loves.vgc said:
SamuelRSmith said:
sad.man.loves.vgc said:
KungKras said:
Why would they want to prevent the muslim brotherhood from gaining power. As long as it is through democratic processes, just let them rule, and if they mismanage, the public will vote for another party. What's the problem?


Yup. Let people choose and suffer/enoy the consequences and learn their lesson. This is probably the only way.

 

The military has been playing a dirty game. Mubarak was just their puppet after all.


If I was an Egyptian I couldn't care less if every single other person in the country voted for Muslim Brotherhood, I still wouldn't want their shit enforced on me


Yeah, so let's allow this joke to continue and get another Mubarak who will push illiteracy rates above 50% and get even more people to vote based on nothing but religion and lose any slight chance or real democracy to ever happen..../sarcasm

Brotherhood will folliow the turkish model, Turkey isn't bad.

 

Meh, I don't know the ins and out of Egyptian politics. I know the election is between a rock and a hard place. My point was being that " Let people choose and suffer/enoy the consequences and learn their lesson. " isn't fair or just for the people who didn't vote for tyranny.

 

 

Basically, fuck democracy.


To hell with democracy if it's gonna invade minorities rights, I am completely with you here. I just think the brotherhood is the better option.

Actually, scratch that, this whole thing is being fabricated, so why bother? the millitary should just come out and tell us who is the next president instead of wasting time.

Hats off to Mohamed ElBaradei (and PullusPardus ), he saw this coming long ago and left the elections race.



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Mr Khan said:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/court-invalidates-egyptian-parliament-2012-06-14?link=MW_latest_news

I don't have all the information here, so i can't say whether the Supreme Court is doing this properly, but it is mighty suspicious surrounding the controversy of how easily Mubarak got off (comparatively) and the presidential runoff.

Thoughts?

It seems they're throwing out the parliment.... yet allowing voting for president.

Assuming "the fix is in" one can only expect Shafik to win.

 

I see reports saying they found laws that forced them to be thrown out.... but I can't find any explination as to why.

I've seen things that suggested it invalidated a third of the parliment, and they through the whole thing out.... yet no explination what invalidated that third.

 



Turkish said:
I just cannot understand whats going on over there.


There is a thing about politics is that the best course of dealing with it is not bothering about it, and this is coming from a guy who study law =P



Huh... they didn't bother to fix the Presidential Election.

Wonder if that means they'll try and co-op the brotherhood.

Morsi will become a pawn.....

or if they legiatmitly just had an issue.or what.



Kasz216 said:
Huh... they didn't bother to fix the Presidential Election.

Wonder if that means they'll try and co-op the brotherhood.

Morsi will become a pawn.....

or if they legiatmitly just had an issue.or what.

Well, they're going to limit the powers of the new president and they retain legislative authority from the recent dissolution of parliament, so yes, likely they'll try to subordinate Morsi so that he can be used to placate the masses, but i would doubt such a method could succeed.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:
Huh... they didn't bother to fix the Presidential Election.

Wonder if that means they'll try and co-op the brotherhood.

Morsi will become a pawn.....

or if they legiatmitly just had an issue.or what.

Well, they're going to limit the powers of the new president and they retain legislative authority from the recent dissolution of parliament, so yes, likely they'll try to subordinate Morsi so that he can be used to placate the masses, but i would doubt such a method could succeed.

I'd heard suggestions that the Brotherhood MIGHT go along with it, even if he would of lost the election.  Pushing for him to be named Prime Minister.

I'm... curious to see how this works out because... like you said... I wouldn't expect it to work.

I suppose they could try and "muslim" up the dictatorship and hope that it'd convince enough brotherhood support to leave the secular liberals alone but that seems... unlikely, what considering recent history.