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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Should Nintendo develop more "Mature" rated games?

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happydolphin said:
Mr Khan said:

The rebuttal here is couched in the "primacy of gameplay" school of thought. If you want to pursue different ideas, it should first be about how the game plays, and not what coat of paint the game has (which is all rating really amounts to, whatever the "M-rating is cool" crowd might say). Certain tastes for gameplay have only been catered to in an M-rated environment, but that is more because of AAA Developers' bias towards making "mature" games than anything else.

Something is blocking your reasoning, you have a bias I just can't put my finger on it.

Would you agree that certain markets refuse to play games with certain themes (kiddy) because they prefer, as a matter of basic preference, games with more mature themes (by mature I don't mean gore and sex I mean themes that relate to adult life, like money, justice and humor, etc.)?

Would you agree that a company catering to said market needs to output content relevant for said market?

That's the bottom line. You can have a super cumfy sweater, but if it's fluorecent green, maybe the buyer won't want it.

That's all this is about.

To make perfectly clear: I'm not talking about taste in gameplay, I'm talking about taste in content (themes, story, characters, etc.). This matters to some people (many actually, many more than you may think imho).

The latter kind of "adult" themes can handily be addressed in a non-alienating way. The best of animated movies of the past twenty-five years have dealt with real issues without being alienating. Or one could look at, say, Star Wars.

It then depends on what kind of "mature" we're talking about here. Earthbound and Fire Emblem, for instance, are that kind of "mature" without being alienating. Are we talking about Fire Emblem maturity or MadWorld maturity?



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Mr Khan said:

The latter kind of "adult" themes can handily be addressed in a non-alienating way. The best of animated movies of the past twenty-five years have dealt with real issues without being alienating. Or one could look at, say, Star Wars.

It then depends on what kind of "mature" we're talking about here. Earthbound and Fire Emblem, for instance, are that kind of "mature" without being alienating. Are we talking about Fire Emblem maturity or MadWorld maturity?

That's a good question. I would say between Fire Emblem and MadWorld. Maybe Star Trek? Something with themes geared to adults, not really geared to children, without being overly inappropriate, and not cartoon either. Somewhere neutral with more adult themes and topics.

Hard to put my finger on it though.

And another alternative is, like you're saying, something even a step beyond Star Trek. How about Indiana Jones, or Beauty and the Beast? A title that would appeal to adults, with adult themes, but could also easily appeal to kids. Both are valid proposals, but one would more easily sell. On the other hand, the Star Trek type would better secure an adult audience.

Each with their pros and cons if you see what I mean.



happydolphin said:
Mr Khan said:
milkyjoe said:
They shouldn't set out to make mature rated games, as that mentality can often lead to clichés. They should set out to come up with new ideas to make new games, and then if one or more ends up requiring a mature rating, so be it.

This is the correct answer. Nintendo should invest in new ideas, and whether they are Mature-rated or not is irrelevent. Although it's somewhat of a bad example because Nintendo gave them very little backing, look at Monolith's games, or The Last Story, or Zangeki no Reginleiv.

I don't completely agree. I agree that, no matter what they do, they should be investing in new ideas or at least creative ideas. Clichés are a no-no, no matter the rating. Even E ratings can lead to clichés so the argument there isn't very convincing.

I think it's important from a business point of view to direct the creative ideas towards certain tastes (in this occurrence mature themed games) in order to reach certain markets. Going the other way around is ignoring fundamental business considerations (what the consumers need or want)

Saying that E ratings can also lead to clichés doesn't rebuke the argument. The point is that when you deliberately aim for any rating, be it mature, E or whatever, you may find yourself changing part of your vision to match up with that rating aim.

When you decide to make a game and then put it out no matter the rating, then you aren't being influenced by the pursuit of any particular rating. If it's E or mature, it'll still be honest to the original vision.



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milkyjoe said:

Saying that E ratings can also lead to clichés doesn't rebuke the argument. The point is that when you deliberately aim for any rating, be it mature, E or whatever, you may find yourself changing part of your vision to match up with that rating aim.

When you decide to make a game and then put it out no matter the rating, then you aren't being influenced by the pursuit of any particular rating. If it's E or mature, it'll still be honest to the original vision.

Ah, now I see what you're saying. It is a possibility, but it is not a necessity.

For example, Uncharted began as a medieval fantasy game afaik. Sony required them to adapt it to another market and make it more "nitty-gritty". The end result gave a game no less polished than anyone could expect, given the standards in the industry today.

That's one example of catering to a market without falling into the trap you bring up.

On the flip side, a game like Twilight Princess seemed to be much too dark and felt a bit cliché'd at times. In that instance, I would agree it wasn't handled properly.

Ultimately, it would be Nintendo's responsibility to assign this kind of business task only to a team that would be able to pull it off. If the team would lead to a cliché-ridden title, it would be best not to mandate them with the task.



RolStoppable said:

"Mature games" is an oxymoron. Most adults actually stay away from such games, because they are first and foremost about teenager fantasies. The following quote says it best:

"Critics who treat adult as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."

That's a superb quote. Couldn't agree more.



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Mature as in graphic violence & sexual content? No, they don't need too. They let the 3rd parties do this for them. Would Nintendo do it? Very doubtful, Nintendo of America try's very hard to keep a clean family image. Though as a few have noted, they might let one of their first party or second party Western developers make a game like that for them.

Mature as in story? Sure, I would like to see Nintendo do more in this area. They have a few games that have mature stories like Metroid, Fire Emblem, Advanced Wars, Mario & Luigi RPG games, Paper Mario, and about 1/3 of the Zelda games. Though I'm not sure they will create too many new IP in this area any time soon, since their studios are having a hard time cranking out the main Nintendo franchises fast enough to keep consumers happy.

Marture as in adult appeal? Not really. I think they already have this field covered. From Wii Fit, Brain Age, Wii Sports, New Super Mario Bros, to about half of their library. Nintendo generally makes games that appeal to adults. Though many of their games have a cartoon sheen on them and are rated E for Everyone, adults like me still buy and play them.



HappySqurriel said:
With the number of excellent studios that are already producing "mature" content, and the relatively few companies producing quality content like Nintendo does, I think Nintendo should focus on what it knows best and attract other developers to produce "mature" content.


This.



I don't really care if it's "mature" or not as long as it's a great game! And I don't think that Nintendo would be the best option to make "adult" games, I'd rather see a 2nd party develop something more similar to Skyrim/GTA/Batman/whatever... But I wouldn't mind if a game like Zelda would go for a more... realistic (?) feeling. I love the kind of fairy tale feeling it has, but I'd like to see something more...



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WiiBox3 said:
Mature as in graphic violence & sexual content? No, they don't need too. They let the 3rd parties do this for them. Would Nintendo do it? Very doubtful, Nintendo of America try's very hard to keep a clean family image. Though as a few have noted, they might let one of their first party or second party Western developers make a game like that for them.

Let the 3rd parties do it is spot on. I for one am not a fan.

Mature as in story? Sure, I would like to see Nintendo do more in this area. They have a few games that have mature stories like Metroid, Fire Emblem, Advanced Wars, Mario & Luigi RPG games, Paper Mario, and about 1/3 of the Zelda games. Though I'm not sure they will create too many new IP in this area any time soon, since their studios are having a hard time cranking out the main Nintendo franchises fast enough to keep consumers happy.

Also, above and beyond these games, think of games without the cartoon coating, something neutral that adults can more relate with. Try to think business for a sec. Think of movies that depict real things (not cartoon), and that offer a style that is more neutral, less embellished. As the example I gave to Khan, think Star Trek or Sound of Music or something. The games you mention here satisfy one diet, but I don't believe it satisfies the diet of the core crowd per se.

Marture as in adult appeal? Not really. I think they already have this field covered. From Wii Fit, Brain Age, Wii Sports, New Super Mario Bros, to about half of their library. Nintendo generally makes games that appeal to adults. Though many of their games have a cartoon sheen on them and are rated E for Everyone, adults like me still buy and play them.

The elderly and female games you mention are just one type of taste (obviously male adults can also like these but they in general appeal more to the elderly, female or family-oriented purchases for male adults, in general). There is another taste bound to another market which is not reached by these games. That's the heart of it. Nintendo must look for what those games would be, and how to aggressively target that untapped market, even if it means to do it by unconventional, New-Market disruption.



Nintendo first party, not a chance!
Deals like the one with Xenoblade, or Eternal Darkness, are welcomed. If there is a market, and if they can provide good mature games, then why not. The thing is that a huge proportion of that market, are a bunch of teenagers that won't buy a Nintendo labeled product.