Forums - Nintendo Discussion - N64 & Cube are abominations

RolStoppable, you are cordially invited to a debate with me. (Other users may also post of course!)

I want you to answer this little question, and I want to get to the bottom of the Gen 5 failure with you. I've been mulling over it all day and want to get it off my chest.

First question.

Since the Playstation, a new entry in the market, managed to boot Nintendo off the throne within the Red Market, using Red Market strategy, why did it work? Why did Red Ocean strategy work for Sony, and what did Nintendo do wrong for its Red Ocean strategy to fail? (since they obviously went Red Ocean)

For this answer, do not tell me they should have gone Blue Ocean, we'll discuss that as a separate issue, since truth is, the outcome could have been much different even with just a Red Ocean strategy.

Ultimately this will lead to many other questions  (for later), such as:

Is the Blue ocean strategy for gen5 mostly visible in Hindsight?

What were the risks involved in going Blue Ocean? Can it fail? (of course the answer is yes) When it fails is it still called blue ocean, or an abomination?

What about the risk of losing Red Ocean marketshare by going Blue Ocean?

And ultimately, why was the N64 an abomination? Why is it not just a failed Red Ocean attempt? Why was the Cube not just a failed Blue Ocean attempt? (related post @abomination)

Rol, feel free to relegate me to your prior posts, but do post the argument related to what I need to look at.



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Well since I am not advanced enough to answer any of your questions I will just tell you that the N64 was great! Also Nintendo did not get enough games out for it and they basically abandoned it towards the end. Then they followed it up with the GC.

That answers none of your questions as I said.

Great controller, cartridge based, great games that you could put in hundreds of hours of time on, great graphics for its time, rumble pack, four player without the add on like the PS had.

There was my one post.

 

Lack of third party support because of the limitations of cartridges(N64) and PS2 had all the biggest exclusives (Gamecube).

By the way I hate this "blue ocean/red ocean" it was called positioning. Jack Trout and Al Ries came up with it back in the 70s.



Maybe Nintendo should have a 4/5 year gen cycle. It seems to be a pattern that Nintendo, 3rd party devs and gamers abandon the system before the end of each gen.

Both consoles were very very good, mostly thanks to 1rst and 2nd party development.......THEY WERENT ABINATIONS AT ALL!!!! also N64 was not a big failure in terms of sales, at least not as big as GC, which by the way was the best 128 bit console,,,,just my opinion

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SvennoJ said:
Maybe Nintendo should have a 4/5 year gen cycle. It seems to be a pattern that Nintendo, 3rd party devs and gamers abandon the system before the end of each gen.

Funny thing about this, Nintendo would've extended the life of the Famicom were it not for impending competition. There are things you just can't do when competition is around, things you can when they aren't. Going lax end of cycle is fine and dandy when nobody is there to threaten your marketspace. But when the competition is there, you need to anticipate and block before they entrench too far. A reduced cycle would have helped.

The negatives of this SJ, users feel ripped off because they have to upgrade. Luckily, we're almost at the end of this short lifecycle nonsense, which is obviously linked to HW advancements, from the inceptions of the VG industry.

Gens are by definition born from the fact that HW constantly needs to be upgraded in order to meet demand. It shouldn't have a reason of existence in the short future.



Rafux said:

Lack of third party support because of the limitations of cartridges(N64) and PS2 had all the biggest exclusives (Gamecube).

By the way I hate this "blue ocean/red ocean" it was called positioning. Jack Trout and Al Ries came up with it back in the 70s.


I just read about positioning, it is very different from blue/red ocean concepts.

Positioning is about consumer persception. Blue/Red ocean is about marketshare and actual untapped needs or demand, in contrast with Positioning's perception focus. The goals are very different.

Wii certainly made use of positioning through an image metamorphosis (no doubt), but they also applied blue/red ocean strategy.

 

Where I got my info on positioning:

 

What is Their "Positioning"

Positioning is something (perception) that happens in the minds of the target market.

It is the aggregate perception the market has of a particular company, product or service in relation to their perceptions of the competitors in the same category.

It will happen whether or not a company's management is proactive, reactive or passive about the on-going process of evolving a position.

But a company can positively influence the perceptions through enlightened strategic actions.

In marketing, positioning has come to mean the process by which marketers try to create an image or identity in the minds of their target market for its product, brand, or organization. It is the 'relative competitive comparison' their product occupies in a given market as perceived by the target market.

Re-positioning involves changing the identity of a product, relative to the identity of competing products, in the collective minds of the target market.

De-positioning involves attempting to change the identity of competing products, relative to the identity of your own product, in the collective minds of the target market.



Both systems had a horrible third party support but the amount of first and second party titles made up for it. That is all

SNES > N64 > GCN = NES > Wii

Come at me Bros.

The common trait of all market leading consoles is a big and varied games library, including valuable exclusives. In the fifth generation Sony did their best to attract third party developers while Nintendo's attitude towards third parties was basically: "We are boss, so you do as we say." The result was incredibly lopsided distribution of third party support which made the PS1 the more attractive purchase for the majority of gamers at the time.

The reason why I called the Nintendo 64 and Gamecube abominations is because both consoles' lineups didn't really resemble the lineups of the previous two consoles anymore (therefore Nintendo didn't continue their tradition). For example, there were millions of fans who were looking forward to the next Super Mario Bros., so Nintendo not making such a game was a detestable action. If Sony stopped making Gran Turismo or Microsoft stopped making Halo, there would be backlash too. Backlash that will show up in a lack of hardware sales.

People who got into Nintendo only in the late SNES years or with the N64 won't see it this way, because for them it's the state of normality. For them, that's what Nintendo is and in turn they might see the Wii as abomination (and quite a few did), because of a game like Wii Sports.

Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

Biased reviews are a pleasure to read. Just my opinion, of course.

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First off, I hate the title.
Secondly, Red Ocean, Blue Ocean... O_o?! What do these terms mean?

Official Mario Kart 8 Thread:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=162055&page=1#

Carl is a Piplup hater and deserves to be punished eternally.