I don't get your logic at all. Sure, Sony sold 2 100m+ selling consoles, but Nintendo has 2 100m+ selling handhelds. Obviously Nintendo knows how to sell hardware as well.

The only reason you dont get my logic "at all" is because you decided to ignore the fact that i said Nintendo "HOME" consoles..

Also, it doesn't matter how many consoles are sold if there is little to no profit made from them.

yea i was just making a point to what HappySquirrel said about PS4 maybe being the lowest selling PS Home console

That's where Microsoft and Nintendo are different from Sony.

this is debateable because Microsoft is know to launch their consoles at a loss just like Sony. Isn't the main reason why M$ is banking so much right now is because of the fact that they have not dropped the price of the console since 2008? excluding the 40 million Live users paying $60 each year just for online of course

the Kinect basically gave M$ the option to skip a price drop. Usually they drop their console prices every 2 years but being that that Kinect exploded 360 sales higher than what a regular $50 price would have done, it was a no brainer for them to skip the price cut and BANK on those profits. when you look at the 360's 2010 sales during the holidays, the sales rose as if the 360 actually DID get a price cut

but i agree with you on the Nintendo profit part

and although Microsoft's game division has been a loss so far, they have tons of revenue from other divisions to cover those losses

what??

their game division has been a loss? how?

i thought M$ was good profit wise in every area

i didn't know about that lol

Sony on the other hand has been hemorrhaging money in almost all of its divisions for several years. They are losing marketshare in every area, and they have been getting a lot of mixed press.

Kaz Hirai is on the job as of this year ;)

How the heck can they afford another console that produces the same losses and mediocre success that the PS3 has?

the PS4 wont produce the "same" losses as the PS3 :)

and the PS3 only got mediocre success because it was TOO-DAMN-HIGH in price($600)

and even at that TOO-DAMN-HIGH price point, they were still losing over $200 each ps3 sale

It's just not possible for them to maintain their strategy of selling a high-powered console at a loss to gain marketshare and make the money back later.

YES THEY CAN!

they just need to make sure they have all the markets covered while not investing TOO much in the console

Their 10 year plan for the PS3 will definitely not work the way they hoped, since PS3 sales have been steadily dropping.

Sony just needs to leave the ps3 at $250. they can start banking on profits a bit before PS4 is launched if they just let the price stay there

and the PS3 sells more than all its main competitors weekly and Microsoft has decided to do the 10 year plan just like Sony so i dont see the problem :)

Once the next gen hits, the spotlight will shift away from the PS3, X360, and Wii (Well, whatever little amount of spotlight the Wii still has) and onto the future. I just don't see the PS3 selling a significant amount of units in it's last few years, so I don't think it will ever reach 100m units.

lol we will see >=)

You also say the PS4 can't possibly sell worse than the PS3. Why?

because there is no way in hell a PS4 at $400 will sell less than what we seen the PS3 selling at $600

and PS4 will also have the accessories that PS3 didn't have at its launch(PS Move etc etc )

Shinobi I am truly confused. You think my approach of Sony releasing a powerful but cheap console avoiding direct competition with Nintendo and MS is a had approach. But you also suggest Sony investing a ton in innovating is also bad. You also suggest Sony is in a lose lose situation.

As for running Samaritan the engine will require 10x the power of the 360 and neither WiiU and likely next box will be able to run it in that form. Sony could run the engine at its default requirements and that alongside the lack of Kinect and a tablet would have the hardcore classic gaming market secure.

Then Sony could put a Mic on The Dual Shock giving it voice controls similar to Kinect. Sony could add a small touch pad on the rear of the controller like the one on Vita. Sony could innovate the current Dual Shock adding unique features. Thus giving Sony a unique controller and the hardcore classic market.

Sony will not get anywhere trying to take on Nintendo or Microsoft directly. A tablet would he foolish and a Kinect like EyeToy. Sony's best chance is to avoid a direct conflict by ensuring its platform is unique. While Microsoft puts a touch screen on their controller and Nintendo uses a tablet Sony releases a super powered Dual Shock.

By the way this is far from short sighted. Directly competing with Microsoft and Nintendo has failed with PS3 and PSP. Sony has realized they can't compete in a direct conflict with both PSOne and PS2 Sony not only had a technological edge (CD and DVD) they had a head start (Early launch) plus their cheaper Dec costs gave them a huge third party support advantage. But PS3 proved when you remove the cheap Dec costs and head start the console just doesn't have much of a chance. Selling it at a loss shows again that they can't go that route again.
Your right that Unreal4 cannot save the PS4 on its own, the higher Dec costs could adversely effect the console.

Lets look at this a second. Sony cannot release a tablet controller or a camera these devices would cost millions to develop and implement. Sony will need to run Samaritan but not be to powerful that developers can't afford to support the platform. Say PS4 is 10x the power of 360 and next box is 6x with Nintendo at 5x. Sony could get ports from the two consoles. Also developers like Epic have been working on software for Unreal4 for a while. Other developers have suggested they are willing to develop higher end titles. Many developers and industry analysts have already said WiiU is not powerful enough to last a generation.

Sony would have an edge as I said Sony could release a powerful system at a profit. Look at the other options. Sony goes for the same power as next box at say 6x with a Kinect EyeToy, they now have little to no edge plus Microsoft has a new touch screen controller. Option 2 Sony releases a 6x power system with a tablet controller they have a slight advantage to Nintendo being 20% more powerful but Nintendo had a year head start Sony is playing catch up with less software support. Option #3 Sony gambles on its own new controller not a tablet or camera this is a major gamble it could succeed or fail worse then anything Sony has released before with 6x the power they are relying entirely on this unique controller and if it fails PlayStation as a brand is lost forever the damage irreversible. Or option 4 , Sony chooses to compete directly with both Nintendo and MS, they release a console at 6x the power and a tablet style controller with a camera, however Microsoft had a head start launching in 2012. Nintendo also launched early Sony is playing catch up relying entirely on its first party line up no exclusives and no unique features.

Or my option #5. Sony opts out of a direct conflict releasing a platform more powerful just enough to have an edge and support Unreal4. Have enough under the hood for developers to continue pushing the hardware at least four years. Sony suddenly has Epics full support they have all of the higher end studios in their pockets. Every developer can port their games to PS4 with ease except for the tablet and/or camera. Sony would have unique games and exclusive support.

You say quantity beats quality, NES beat everyone with fewer games and SNES restricted the amount of games. Its the quality of the games and the uniqueness of the hardware. Fact is Microsoft is scrambling to out do Nintendo and Nintendo is doing everything they can to not compete with Microsoft or Sony. In fact developing cross platform games next generation will be extremely hard. Sony will get no where by following Microsoft or taking on Nintendo. The industry is changing and Sony won't get anywhere trying to beat Nintendo or Microsoft at their own games.

I'd say this new generation will be the generation of non competition as everyone scrambles to make their hardware unique.

honestly, they need a controller in the 360 style, almost everyone in the american market is accustomed to the 360 controller, and the 3rd party PS3 controllers in the style suck or are cheap quality.
the thumb sticks have to change, and the triggers are terrible on the standard PS3 controller.

next they need party chat, but thats a given.

more user friendly UI.
to the adverage person, the PSN menu is confusing and daunting. how do u update your system? how do you log in? how do i configure my mic? why do i have to configure something made for the console im using?

better online (given) PSN+ is still the best $5 a month you can spend on online services.

don't go crazy with power/never use cell again
cell was a flop, for those that don't know cell is basically why PS3 took so long to come out, why it was so much $ at the start and why it is a bit more powerful then xbox.
cell is powerful but power isnt everything if people don't use it.
notice how just about every multiplatform game looks better on xbox? this is because the extra power PS3 does have is wasted and developers don't want to spend an extra 6 months to make one consoles look a bit better. I heard somewhere that sony will not be using cell again, and they want to start out at a more reasonable price and avoid the 599 US dollar laughs the world had when it was announced. so hopfully, $400 launch.

backwards compatibility obvious

personally, i would like it to not be rounded? like the top of the PS3 is rounded, i have to have my PS3 on my xbox, i hope the PS4 has a flat top... but this is being nitpicky but its ok.

the exclusives for ps3 are many, but are they truely amazing? no nothing on ps3 compares to halo or gears. honestly nothing on PS3 made me drop everything buy the console/game and play for hours... mag was good MGS4 was good, but console worthy? no
uncharted is over rated and so is resistance... sony should try and get an epicly large game, a skyrim style exclusive? that be nice..

while you and i were gone i missed your long post. always informative. glad your back.

while i agree with you, well hell, i think that's it!

Nintendo have been doing their own thing with Wii and now trying to break away with Wiiu, MS will likely add more needless multi-media features to their nextbox while relying mostly on 3rd party software and a small focus on their own, and Sony will likely be a powerhouse on all fronts with new ip, and a focus on centralized established ip to keep PS3 fans interested presenting 2 or 3 of their biggest ip every yr. 

i think dual shock 4 will have a tablet with augmented reality features. i also think Sony will opt out of an HD or 3D tablet screen. 

i think Joe covered everything else, so while it would seem they'd all have the same gimmick to rope you in. they'll all be different in some way providing a different experiance.

Move will have lots of software, and again Power will be big on PS4, but PS4 will likely on 6 times more powerful then the comp.

To be honest though enditall727 i dont feel you've read though my replies thoroughly, because if you did you would'nt have repeated most of what you already said. Which is kinda dissapointing as i felt we were having a genuinely good debate up until this reply.

How much more powerfull are you talking here? We already know the ball park of where Wii U and Next box will fall in terms of performance, and those specs are pretty powerfull already. how much higher can Sony really go in? It woudlnt make sense to go for such a route the advancements will be negligable. How would they even market that? With the samaritan demo i suppose? Wont work imo. The market for poeple who get gidy over insane graphics is not profitable. If sony just target them its suicide.

I said they dont need to invest a ton to be innovative. And ive explained perfectly well why i think they are in a lose lose situation.

Bottom line: If sony dont try to compete they will become irrelevent, yet if they do try to compete its risky, especially given their financial position.

I hope im not coming off as being overly negative about sony's position going in to next gen. I feel im being realistic about it, also this is genuinely my take on the matter.

I also feel that some of the suggestions given in this thread is the exact kinda thinking that will end sony. And im sure some of you think my opinions would also lead to their demise. Goes both ways i guess.

Personally, as a big time sony fan, i hope they blow us away with PS4 :)

Either way im buying my ps4 DAY 1 :D

Edit: Its also a bit of a cop out from my side since you guys are being really specific about features etc. while ive been pretty vague about what i would actually like to see in the ps4. But to be honest whatever the ps4 ends up being i hope no1 saw it coming.

Well Shinobi I agree with you Sony can't not innovate. However I feel Sony would he better off innovating their current Dual Shock rather then a tablet controller or camera. I think the touch pad in Vita is a great innovation to put on the dual shock a Mic with voice control. Maybe a camera 5 MP QR codes and maybe even NFC tech. All the innovations being introduced lately the future of gaming. Why does Sony need the camera (Kinect) Microsoft is not even using it as much a ton of its control functionality is voice commands. Why does Sony need an expensive tablet controller? What functionality would it offer that could help Sony survive?


As I said next generation will likely he the generation of non competition. Porting titles will be very difficult all three companies will be using unique hardware. Hardware that won't be fully comparable each version of a game will be unique. Sony needs an edge they need a niche with MS going after casuals and multimedia, Nintendo going after casuals and innovation. This Sony's chance to secure the hardcore classic old school gaming market. Plus with innovations to the Dual Shock as I listed above Sony will have tons of functionality developers will eat up.

Later on Sony could release a Dual Shock with a screen, all Dual Shocks would already have a camera. The addition of the screen would be a luxury accessory.

Sony needs to pick its battles.

Whoops my bad I read Marcus reply and saw Shinobis name. My bad. As for Shinobi we know WiiU is supposedly 5x the power of 360 according to IGNs leaked next box specs. I am suggesting Sony barely makes Epics minimum Unreal4 specs at 10x the power of 360. Which will be substantially more powerful then Nextbox but not the leap we saw last generation. PS3 was way more of a leap then PS4 would be as I am suggesting.

I am not saying Sony blow billions making PS4 a super power at 15x or 20x the power. I am suggesting Sony meet the minimum requirements set by Epic. Thus PS4 would he able to handle every engine currently available. Sony cannot win in a direct fight with Nintendo or Microsoft.

Also launching in 2013 after Nintendo and very likely after Microsoft. They need to have a technological edge. By the way the manager of my local EBGames was informed Microsoft is sending a ton of packages to his outlet for the week of E3. To expect major promotional material for upcoming product.

He said Microsoft has not told anyone what all that material will be or what new product. But he said something similar happened when Slim came. So Microsoft is announcing something big at E3 so big they are sending boxes of promotional material the likes of when Slim line launched.

Further solidifying my opinion that next box will not only be announced at E3 but that it is coming alongside WiiU this winter. A major ad campaign starts during E3.

Sony launching in early 2013 currently rumored to be March 2013. Sounds about right though if I were Sony I would just forfeit the year a launch in early 2013 out of the shopping season would be bad. As such I am suggesting Sony needs a more powerful system and that system can't directly compete.