At some point rocket you have to ask uourself how much of the work he actually did.
Wozniak says that he and zteve were hired to work on a circuit board, beceiving like a dollar for every transistor they removed. Wozniak ended up removing nearly half, a number so astonishijg to the compan that they paid a 500 dollar bonus of which wozniak never even knew about until much later.
That kind of guy doesnt demand anyones trust.

Of course its going to take time to be revealed, but he likely stole a number of ideas and took credit for the rest.

And uou know, i dont understand why bill gates receives like not nearly half the credit jobs gets. The man always said he would donate money and not once in his career did he aside from taking pay cuts. Meanwhile gates funded enoughmoney to cure a disease....

Pfff... Apple's worth is 20 times my country. How about that?

When it comes to "the decent human being award", Bill Gates gets the award every time. You won't get an argument from me about that. Steve Jobs was an egotistical asshole.

Whether he "stole" the ideas or not, it really doesn't matter. Where Jobs' true ability lay was in organizing thoughts into a singular vision and whipping people (oftimes brutally) into aligning with that vision until a great product was created. He was often the spearhead in concept development; true, he rarely played a hand in the nuts and bolts of industrial design but he was always there, overseeing the project and making sure it stayed true to his concept. We don't even think of it today but Steve Jobs was instrumental even in things like choosing the font for the original Mac OS, which was a huge part of the UI revolution of the early 80s. His hand is in so many aspects of computing now that it's hard to keep track of them all.

Was Steve Jobs a bad guy? Possibly. Maybe even likely. But being incredibly inventive and a bad guy are not mutually exclusive. He is easily one of the top five most influential people in computing history and may even be the most influential.

Thats like giving charlie credit for his angels

Not the same thing at all. It was often Jobs that came up with the idea. Did the people around him make those ideas better? Sure, I don't doubt it.

Everything in Apple, Inc has Steve Jobs' fingerprints all over it. The secrecy within the compnay, its heirarchy, the "think different" ideal, the product design, the user interfaces... Did Steve Jobs actually design all of those things? Of course not, Apple, Inc is worth 400 billion dollars. There is no way one man could be responsible for every aspect of a corporation that large.

Okay, let's put it another way. Name me another company that is even 1/10th the size of Apple where the CEO founded it and still heads every major project. And obviously, Jobs wasn't just rubberstamping every project. He personally scrapped the iPhone project and set the team back two years because he didn't like what they were doing. He almost fired the entire MobileMe team on the spot because he was so unhappy with Apple's cloud computing solution. He bought his own company and turned it into OS X.

You're trying really hard to discount the man's accomplishments in the face of piles of evidence that point in the other direction. For what reason? Because you didn't like him? Shit, I don't think anybody really liked Steve Jobs. 

What did you guys think of yesterday's event? I thought publishing your own books to the app store is a cool idea. I am thrilled to see where it's headed.

edit: Typical vgc apple thread!

@kynes

nahh the price is just speculation and not the real price. apple 4x more worth than toyota for example is stupid in my eyes. if both companies wouldn't be on the stockmarket owned by one guy he could get much more for selling toyota or let's say the same.

us-americans and brits love the stock market much more than let's say most europeans, we don't see it like them.

it's not like normal people really pay so much for an apple stock because they think one part of apple is it worth, they just think it could rise even more. if these people would have to pay for a part of apple or toyota without stockmarket i bet most woudn't pay 4x more for a one millionths part of apple than they would pay for the same of toyota.

So you own a Mac, an iPhone, and an iPad but Steve Jobs wasn't really a visionary and was good at tricking people into buying Apple's products.

If that is the case, why do you own all those products?

Well I could get far better products for much less money... So I don't really care about Apple products.
Only own a second hand iPod Touch, which I like because a friend sold it to me for 78€ which I think was alright.
Not really a hater of iPod, iPhone and iPad except that they're horriby overpriced, but I really can't stand MacBooks and their really bad software like QuickTime and *shudders* iTunes.

My girlfriend is a huge Apple fanatic, but sadly she's not that rich so I always try to convince her not to buy another Apple product. Well at least she crashes her iPhone 4 deliberately after a few months to get a (free) new one and she once lied that her iPod Touch isn't working anymore so she could keep the "broken" one and got a new one sent to her for free.
Damn she's evil.

Didn't they just settle a lawsuit over defective ipod nanos allowing anyone that ever owned any version of the nano to get another free one?