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SE's Wada speaks out again

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Wada is crying them bitter tears



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

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naznatips said:
Soriku said:
Hey, look on the bright side, we have Namco to back the Wii up.

-ToS: KoR
-Fragile
-Sword of Legendia
-Baten Kaitos 3

 


 lol! 

I for one would love a BK3.  Origins was just great. 



I think the point has been made numerous times that the games often cited showing the success of core or hardcore games on the Wii is somewhat misleading. There are rational explanations which are often conveniently overlooked for these supposed successes, and it shows a willful blindness to ignore them.

Red Steel is basically as horrid an example as can be dredged up. Not only was the game pretty dismal on the quality front, but it was a launch title. I know many proponents of the Wii success can survive on paltry offerings like a crocodile fasting for months on end. However hopefully there are enough owners of the console that can't wait for months before playing another game. Seriously this only proves a high tolerance to poor game development. Even the developer said it was abysmal.

Resident Evil 4 is an equally bad example to call upon. A triple port first on Game Cube then on PS2, and then returned to the Wii. Hardly an original development, and hardly the success story it is made out to be. In fact its the probably the best hardcore third party developed game on the console, and its hardly stacking up with the best on the other consoles. To be blunt its attach rate is pathetic compared to the install base. The title hasn't even exceeded its outing on the other two consoles.

Citing Nintendo first party titles is no better they are guaranteed sellers on a Nintendo console. Always have been, and most likely always will be. Metroid has sold just over a million. That might be acceptable to some, but this was supposed to be one of the consoles holy trinity. Once again it is a horrible attach rate based on user base, and from all reports this was a incredibly solid title.

Regardless Nintendo's own mining rights do not help in the argument they hurt it. Third parties already begrudge Nintendo for its in house developed title starving their own offerings. Mario only serves to hurt the cause rather then help it. The traditionally lower attach rate on the console already makes a market tight.

Poor examples, and they are poor examples prove nothing. You need a third party title to be a success not just good enough, but a real success. That has yet to be really proven on the console. There is no stand out exceptional high end Wii game that has performed the miracle yet. A thirty dollar port that is selling to less then ten percent of the user base proves that? Considering how utterly devoid the Wii library has been of such titles?

You want to argue the point provide a real list. Your not proving anything until you provide something concrete. Every time I see this list. I think to myself they are really struggling to make a point.



Your posts are becomming increasingly ridiculous Dodece. I feel sad that I have to clean up trash like this. Most people wouldn't even bother with you or your trolling and ignorance. Still, I don't want you to get away with such complete and utter bullshit, so here it is.

Red Steel is basically as horrid an example as can be dredged up. Not only was the game pretty dismal on the quality front, but it was a launch title. I know many proponents of the Wii success can survive on paltry offerings like a crocodile fasting for months on end. However hopefully there are enough owners of the console that can't wait for months before playing another game. Seriously this only proves a high tolerance to poor game development. Even the developer said it was abysmal.

Well, getting past the fact that this whole paragraph is your (entirely worthless) opinion about the quality of this individual game, Red Steel was a major development effort. Ubisoft invested a lot of money in the game and saw a good return on their investment. From a development standpoint, returns per investment are all that matters. If you want to get into opinions: I think CoD4 was an utterly bullshit game that wasn't even close to worth the $50 I paid for it on PC, much less the $60 it costs on consoles. PS3 and 360 gamers buy bad games. See how dumb stating opinions as facts are? Don't do it again if you want to debate like an adult.

Resident Evil 4 is an equally bad example to call upon. A triple port first on Game Cube then on PS2, and then returned to the Wii. Hardly an original development, and hardly the success story it is made out to be. In fact its the probably the best hardcore third party developed game on the console, and its hardly stacking up with the best on the other consoles. To be blunt its attach rate is pathetic compared to the install base. The title hasn't even exceeded its outing on the other two consoles.

Oh jeeze this is a great one. You are saying (at the same time) it's stupid because it's an old game, and it's sales are bad because they aren't better than the first 2 versions, despite it being an old game. As unbelievably hypocritical and childish as your statement is, allow me to address each issue individually. "It's an old game." So is Ninja Gaiden on the Xbox, but the pretty graphics remake on the PS3 flopped hard.

"It's a failure because it didn't sell as well as the other 2 versions." First of all, it will very likely pass the GC version in lifetime sales. Second, it also cost much less to develop. Remember that discussion we had about returns per investments up above kid? Yeah, you should. Capcom predicted 400K lifetime shipments and they have shiped over 1.5 million. Dismal failure of a game.

Oh, and attach rate is how we meassure success now? Guess what guys, according to Diomedes Metal Gear Solid 3 is a huge flop. it sold 3.96 million units on a console that sold 120 million. That's a 1/30 attach rate. FAILURE! RE4 has a 1/15 attach rate. It's twice as successful!

Citing Nintendo first party titles is no better they are guaranteed sellers on a Nintendo console. Always have been, and most likely always will be. Metroid has sold just over a million. That might be acceptable to some, but this was supposed to be one of the consoles holy trinity. Once again it is a horrible attach rate based on user base, and from all reports this was a incredibly solid title.

Metroid is selling at about the same rate as Metroid Prime 2, which is to be expected. Rarely do sequels outsell the games before them. On the other hand, Super Mario Galaxy has sold much faster than either Super Mario Sunshine or Super Mario 64 did. Funny how you forgot to mention that game. As far as it's "holy trinity" goes, the 3 best selling GC games were Super Smash Bros. Melee, Mario Kart Double Dash, and Super Mario Sunshine. I would argue the sequels to those 3 games make a much more signifficant "holy trinity." The first of those has done great.

As far as other successes go:

Sonic and the Secret Rings sold .81 million. Far above the necessary profit levels and more than double the combined sales of the much more expensive to produce Sonic the Hedgehog on PS3 and 360.

Guitar Hero 3 was obviously a huge success. It outsells the 360 version weekly now and obliterated the failure of the PS3 version.

The sales of Mario & Sonic at the Olympic games speak for themselves. Don't say this is a Nintendo game, because it's developed and published completely by Sega (except Japan where it's published by Nintendo). I will give you that Sega sort of cheated by using Mario.

Rayman Raving Rabbids sold great, and is now at 1.21 million. The sequel is selling at the same rate and is now at .68 million.

Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles surpassed Capcom's lifetime sales forcast of .6 million in 4 weeks on the market. It has a good shot at being a million seller.

Lego Star Wars has been vastly outselling the PS3 and 360 versions. It also has a good shot at being a million seller.

Trauma Center is a game made on the cheap by a very small developer named Atlus. It also happens to be their best selling game ever at .52 million. The Wii represents an opportunity for other little developers to make quality games like this too.

Dragon Quest Swords sold .5 million units in Japan alone. This is more than any Playstation 3 or Xbox 360 game has ever sold in Japan.

 

I really hope someday you'll learn a lesson about posting FUD Dodece, but I am not counting on it.



Legend11 said:

Oops I think the reason that Capcom and Sega are targetting Western markets is pretty obvious (just look at the chart below). As for Square Enix, like any business they're simply looking to expand.

(Media Create LTD Wii - Dec 2nd, 2007)
Publisher Games Total Median
1 Nintendo 17 8 294 000 487 882
2 Namco-Bandai 10 658 000 65 800
3 Square-Enix 1 477 000 477 000
4 Capcom 4 266 000 66 500
5 Konami 5 221 000 44 200
6 SEGA 6 216 000 36 000
7 Hudson 7 199 500 28 500
8 Takara-Tomy 2 136 000 68 000
9 MMV 3 82 000 27 333
10 Koei 5 81 000 16 200
11 Tecmo 2 76 000 38 000
12 Ubisoft 3 58 000 19 333
13 Banpresto 1 56 000 56 000
14 AQ Interactive 1 53 000 53 000
15 E.A Japan 5 52 000 10 400


Square Enix are doing what Square Enix do best. They are doing nothing to help anyone. They only supported the DS after Nintendo had done all the hard work, they are doing nothing of any note on the Wii, their 360 support has been lame at best and with the PS3 they are dragging FFXIII out as long as possible leaving Namco, Sony, Konami etc... to do all the work.

After the userbase has been established (by everyone other then them) they release their games and cash in. S-E executive talk is very annoying. When they start to do anything, then they can talk. Before that, S-E can STFU.

It's beyond obvious that S-E are sitting back and waiting for GT5, MGS4, Tekken 6 etc... to do the work on the PS3 for them... while they sit back and talk trash.



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Dodece said:
...

Resident Evil 4 is an equally bad example to call upon. A triple port first on Game Cube then on PS2, and then returned to the Wii. Hardly an original development, and hardly the success story it is made out to be. In fact its the probably the best hardcore third party developed game on the console, and its hardly stacking up with the best on the other consoles. To be blunt its attach rate is pathetic compared to the install base. The title hasn't even exceeded its outing on the other two consoles.

...

You are trying too hard dude. Give it a rest, take a day off and stop looking like a fool.
How can RE4 be a triple port? The original GC version was a port of what? If you used the PC version that could make sense. It could, if you did not say "returned to the Wii". So RE4 was developed for the Wii ported to GC, then PS2 and later returned as a port to the Wii. Now all makes sense.



Satan said:

"You are for ever angry, all you care about is intelligence, but I repeat again that I would give away all this superstellar life, all the ranks and honours, simply to be transformed into the soul of a merchant's wife weighing eighteen stone and set candles at God's shrine."

Dodece said:
Are we looking at a catch 22. Square is damned either way they go. They turn their games into casual tripe, and they will get lambasted by fans for feeding them garbage. They stick to their guns and support traditional high quality gaming with depth, and they are labeled anti Nintendo.
  

'Casual tripe'

I just wonder? 

If a game was made that had eye-popping graphics, superb physics, incredable sound, better than anything out there, but almost no one could make it past the first level because it was set up that way to be nearly impossible, would the hardcore players still buy it?   After all, it would have all the stuff that the true believer hardcore says that they want.  None of them ever say that a requirement to buy the game is the strong possiblity that they will complete it.

The game would be cheap (relatively speaking) to make, since it would need only two levels.  A second level just for the .0000001% that could actually make it to level 2.  Then as the game producer you *really* make the game hard! (So it doesn't need to be a complete level.)

And then assuming it doesn't sell for some strange reason, just complain that even the so-called hardcore are just too casual for your *real* game. 

Oh wait.  It needs to be online capable as well.  Well, provide a computer 'friend' that always wins and of course, don't mind d/c, since more can be put on your servers, if 99.99% are always disconnecting themselves so to not really lose.



Torturing the numbers.  Hear them scream.

jhlennon1 said:
Legend11 said:

Oops I think the reason that Capcom and Sega are targetting Western markets is pretty obvious (just look at the chart below). As for Square Enix, like any business they're simply looking to expand.

(Media Create LTD Wii - Dec 2nd, 2007)
Publisher Games Total Median
1 Nintendo 17 8 294 000 487 882
2 Namco-Bandai 10 658 000 65 800
3 Square-Enix 1 477 000 477 000
4 Capcom 4 266 000 66 500
5 Konami 5 221 000 44 200
6 SEGA 6 216 000 36 000
7 Hudson 7 199 500 28 500
8 Takara-Tomy 2 136 000 68 000
9 MMV 3 82 000 27 333
10 Koei 5 81 000 16 200
11 Tecmo 2 76 000 38 000
12 Ubisoft 3 58 000 19 333
13 Banpresto 1 56 000 56 000
14 AQ Interactive 1 53 000 53 000
15 E.A Japan 5 52 000 10 400


Square Enix are doing what Square Enix do best. They are doing nothing to help anyone. They only supported the DS after Nintendo had done all the hard work, they are doing nothing of any note on the Wii, their 360 support has been lame at best and with the PS3 they are dragging FFXIII out as long as possible leaving Namco, Sony, Konami etc... to do all the work.

After the userbase has been established (by everyone other then them) they release their games and cash in. S-E executive talk is very annoying. When they start to do anything, then they can talk. Before that, S-E can STFU.

It's beyond obvious that S-E are sitting back and waiting for GT5, MGS4, Tekken 6 etc... to do the work on the PS3 for them... while they sit back and talk trash.


Agreed completely!




jhlennon1 said:

 

 


Square Enix are doing what Square Enix do best. They are doing nothing to help anyone. They only supported the DS after Nintendo had done all the hard work, they are doing nothing of any note on the Wii, their 360 support has been lame at best and with the PS3 they are dragging FFXIII out as long as possible leaving Namco, Sony, Konami etc... to do all the work.

After the userbase has been established (by everyone other then them) they release their games and cash in. S-E executive talk is very annoying. When they start to do anything, then they can talk. Before that, S-E can STFU.

It's beyond obvious that S-E are sitting back and waiting for GT5, MGS4, Tekken 6 etc... to do the work on the PS3 for them... while they sit back and talk trash.


Haha, well said.

 Square used to be so cool in the PS1 days.



"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event."  — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.

@Dodece: Redsteel was a lot like Assassins Creed, big budget for the platform, lots of hype but it didn't live up to hype and the game had some serious flaws. You're right about that RS had a lot of sales because of being launch title and the lack of competition, but consider the low installbase at the time it was released. RS would propably have pretty similar sales if it would have been released 6 months later. So when the game is qualitywise so similar with Assassins Creed, i wouldn't say Wii owners having high tolerance for bad quality games in comparision. Besides, haven't the problem in bad 3rd party game sales been in their low quality.

And RE4, like Naz said, you don't follow your own logic. Considering RE4 being an old port, it has had unbelievably good sales. But in the other hand, it was the first high quality shooter on the Wii. The best hardcore 3rd party title on the Wii propably is RE:UC. As i see it, ironically, RE:UC is the best RE game so far.

Usually you should say that all exclusives are guaranteed sellers. MP3 definately underperformed to most peoples expectations, but considering sales history of Metroids, which all are incredibly solid titles, MP3 is actually doing pretty good.
Now, consider it this way, every 1st party title that sells for example million, shows that the platform has viable userbase for that specific type of games. Saying that Nintendos 1st party titles saturates the market on Wii, for example SMG would have saturated the market for platformers or Twilight Princess saturated the market for adventure games, is similar to saying that Halo 3 saturated the market for shooters on 360 and therefore it makes no sense to make shooters for 360, even that the 360 userbase is clearly biased towards FPS fans. And if we want to continue the logic, GT Pro Series and Monster 4X4 shows that it's a good idea to make a really crappy driving game for Wii, since there are lots of room that type of games because the two Ubisoft games sold badly and didn't saturate the market.
Of course Nintendos first party is competition for other publishers, but even without Nintendo, 3rd parties would have to compete against each other.
The main reasons for 1st party games being so dominant on Nintendo platforms is because of their high quality and them being nearly the only (quality) exclusives (=the reason to buy the specific console) on the platform for the last 2 generations, when Nintendo have been losing to competition.

What do you mean by "traditionally lower attach rate"? Traditionally Nintendo platforms have had good attach rates, or at least not worse than the winning competition. Wii may have lower attach rate than competition, but it's because it has constantly sold good, haven't had similar bundles with competition or have been out less time than competition. And looking at game sales, on a current weekly level Wii has the best software total out of the three.

360 has been out twice the time than the Wii and it's yet to prove any 3rd party game to become real success (if you don't count the RE:s or RRR and RS, or few smaller games, there's no really successfull 3rd party title on any current gen platforms).

One (short term) problem Wii has indeed, it's the variety of it's library. Nintendo has good selling 1st party titles on a lot of genres and have created (and proved them selling) a userbase for those genres, which is a certain amount of Wii owners per genre, which means that Wii owners buy more different type of games than for example 360 owners, when games in different genres can sell nearly equally on Wii, while none can (with similar userbase) reach the 360 shooter levels, but games out of the "main genres" will easilly outsell any 360 game out of 360:s "main genres".



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Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.