well you wrote an essay full of damage control :P the nerves are being hit alright..just not on me

1. calling you ignorant when you actually are is not an insult, it's just how it is. MS treated and treats kinect as a console, in their marketing and such. they have promoted it a LOT! that's the meaning behind their words, I am surprised you don't get that. I do not recall sony saying ps3 + move wll replace wii...tho I imagine it actually happening at least in some households considering the lack of support the device gets.  not sure where this delusion of an identity crisis comes from? They support their console AND their peripheral, unlike Nintendo who doesn't support both of those well and sudenly have gone into statements such as core games ignored us cuz we are not HD...what's wrong with you etc etc. Trust me from the desperate acts and statements such as that the crisis is at the ninty camp. Sony and MS have been doing what they have doing all along just fine.

2. your whole angry rant has come down omfg bu bu you haz no zelda? 0_o LOL what makes you think either sony or ms would be  NO FAN WANTS THAT! unless you want to alienate your own fans that is..this is not ninty we are talking about here. Kinect and Move have had different approaches to them...kinect has been mainly aimed at casual gamers and hence a lot of casual titles (some of which are absolutely amazing btw) Move has been an optional control scheme mainly for the core ps fans, hence excellent move implimentation in games like KZ3. This is not rocket science, it's just different approaches

3. 0_o do you like read what you type? what a messy miniessay is this? You are contradicitng yourself over and over again...Dance central is at or above any M+ games on the wii for certain. Kinectimals and Kinect Sports don't fall behind any of the ninty offerings either...not even sure what you base this 'quality' statement on really? Those are fun games and work great. end of story. so in around 5 years Ninty have provided how many good M+ games? and in a year Move and Kinect has supported how many games? This 'nintendo' quality thing is a very subjective matter, it all comes down to personal preference. For example I find games like red steel/SR boring and overrated...doesn't mean it's not a quality title to others. Games like Dance central, Sports Champions, Echochrome, Tumble are very good quality games imho. but I won't put it forth as 'fact'

4.  don't ignore this :P Peripheral vs Console..forget PR, forget fanboy claims...it is what it is. I'm sure you are smart enough to distinguish a console from a peripheral

5. what part of different approaches don't you get? good lord man, stop running around the issue. MS especially, have put more money behind Kienct than Ninty has for M+! the one who doesn't deliver constant stream of games for M+ OR wii is Nintendo while MS and SOny both support their consoles and peripherals well. I know you like getting all defensive about nintendo all the time but seriously LOL how can you even say the things you say is just baffling.

6. ugh trap? paranoia overload! you said ninty is in a place to innovate but ms/sony isn't which is a load of crap at its finest shittiest form.

your 'ps' bit just shows your desperation here :D bubu you haz no zelda? LOL I already addressed this...fans don't want a kinect only or Move only Halo/GT5/Uncharted etc hence we won't get it. and I sure as hell HOPE we won't get it.  and also platform vs console, two very different things ;) might wanna think about that.

I'm not going to interrupt for long, but MUGEN you tend to be very rude. Your first line in your response basically was intended to demean Joelcool. You have no right to say his opinion is a fail, and that he is ignorant, everyone has their own perspective on current gen consoles, and it's good someone is standing up for the Wii here.

Also have you played Killzone 3 with Move? It's not utilized well, it feels like a last minute addition. Slow reaction speeds, hard to aim at targets, and yea...just read some reviews, no one said anything special about Move being integrated with Killzone. With Dead Space Extraction it's freaken awesome, but that's a slower paced game, and a Wii port.

Anyway, don't force your opinion onto others MUGEN. Not everyone thinks highly of Kinect and Move, and I agree with Joel. Nintendo has always lead with innovation, and Sony and MS tend to copy (Motion gaming, analog sticks, start/select buttons, shoulder buttons, 4 button layout with D-Pad, wireless controllers, touch screens on handhelds, etc)

Good Job Joel, don't let him bully you.

1. Look you need to make up your mind, you said Kinect is a peripheral, your words. But when I mention Microsoft called it a console suddenly you change tune completely. This identity crisis is very apparent just by reading your response, you yourself don't know whether Kinect is a console or a peripheral. Nintendo has always had a centric platform and haven't created platforms within platforms or peripherals which were big and had exclusive games. Almost every Nintendo game has been playable on the primary system, so Nintendo really hasn't done much different in that aspect either. As for Microsoft and Sony doing what they have always done? I won't say what I think about that statement because I'd likely get banned. Sony has never produced a peripheral like Move, ever! Microsoft innovated with Kinect correct, wait Sony, Nintendo and even Apple had the technology before Microsoft and didn't see its capabilities. Microsoft took a gamble on a peice of technology which everyone else had turned down.

Move is not a typical Sony product and Kinect is not a typical Microsoft product. This is not what Microsoft and Sony have been doing for years it is a new approach one which both companies saw Nintendo succeed in. It was a response to the success Nintendo was having, disagree well why did Microsoft tell Xbox owners to buy Wii's because they weren't competition. Microsoft and Sony did not intend to make motion control systems nobody thought Nintendo would be successful. When Nintendo was successful both Microsoft and Sony changed direction.

No Zelda, well you specifically called out WiiMotion+ saying it didn't have the software Move and Kinect does. In an attempt to make it appear that Nintendo was shitty. I decided while I would address the fact that the whole Wii platform should be compared directly to Move or Kinect that I would patronize you and address it from your point of view. I stated that Kinect and Move both have far more games then Motion+ but Motion+ has WiiSports:Resort and LoZ:SS the latter better then every and any title on either Kinect or Move (Exclusive). I mentioned quality over quantity. Now at best you could argue that Kinect is in a similar ball park as it has a few higher quality games. But in all honesty Move and Kinect may have a hundred or so mediocre games but Motion+ just needs a few high quality AAA+ titles and its a better platform. I mean you yourself have stated in the past about the lower quality shovel ware found on Wii, but then you argue that Kinect and Move are better because they have more games.

I am very suprised you would call both Microsoft and Sony stupid. You are insinuiting this I mean Microsoft said Kinect is the future of gaming and that the next Xbox and all future Microsoft products will implement it heavily. But then you say Microsoft would be stupid to support it, well if it would be stupid to support it then why is Microsoft seeing it as the future? Essentially you are suggesting Kinect is not the future, that it is not where Halo and Forza should go.

I also note while you love to critisize me saying I don't understand the target markets of Kinect and Move you then specifically mention Nintendo's lack of M games which is not in Nintendo's target market. In fact you ask if Nintendo has any M games as good as Dance Central which is itself not an M game. You then mention Kinectimals and KinectSports not falling behind and I qoute "any of the ninty offerings either" seriously you want to argue that Kinectimals doesn't fall behind oh lets see MarioKart, NSMB, Zelda (I know I know your afraid of Zelda) Metroid....etc.... name a Nintendo franchise represented on Wii that Kinectimals/KinectSports that is either as good or doesn't fall behind? I can think of a half dozen but not many more (First Party).

When I said lack quality I was not throwing in personal bias. To be a high quality title it can't just be fun if we went by that then Pong is a high quality title by todays standards and I'd love to see you argue that. If Nex-Box launch title was Pong and you argued it was a high quality title you'd be leaving covered in eggs and garbage. A high quality title requires a good budget, good development team and a very enjoyable product. Dance Central is a high quality title but is it as high as say any mainstream Mario title? Or is it even of higher quality then Just Dance? What defines your sense of quality sine you obviously consider it superior to Just Dance quality wise, why is it? Because the product took a larger budget bigger and more experianced dev team and you had more enjoyment out of Dance Central.

Microsoft and Sony can innovate they just don't. In fact Kinect was built and Microsoft was one of the last companies to know or hear about it. They only got it because everyone else had said no. Its not like Microsoft was working on Kinect for the past 20 years like Nintendo with Wii. Microsoft bought the idea and technology , MS doesn't innovate much they aquire people who do! Sony likes to watch what the competition does and improve on it the best they can trying to steal the market share from their competitor and hopefully drive them into the ground.

You see Nintendo doesn't base its decisions entirely on fans. Miyamoto gets an idea in his head it doesn't matter what fans are going to think, he knows how to make a killer AAA+ game and he goes and makes one. At first the whining fans scream and pout but within years everyone remembers the amazing game Miyamoto churned out not all the whining fans.

Look at David Jaffe, he wanted to do something with God Of War, he wanted to do something with Twisted Metal. But Sony interfered because they wanted to give fans what fans wanted. Rather then creating a great solid product or doing something new Sony stuck with what the fans wanted unwilling to change or create something new.

Nintendo gives fans what they want before they want it. If Kinect was any good if it was the future of gaming then their is no reason Microsoft shouldn't be able to put a big title like Halo on it. Unless.....shocking.... Kinect isn't the future, Kinect isn't a great gaming platform. As for Move Sony is unwilling to take a true gamble, Move has good capabilities but rather then Sony create some high quality software for it they slap Move compatability on some bigger games and hope it sells.

The point I was making in the first place was that Nintendo actually stands behind its innovations. Nintendo puts its money and its franchises where its mouth is. They aren't like Microsoft saying "Kinect is the future" but not giving Kinect a single mainstream franchise. Even the Fable game is a spin off rather then an attempt to give Kinect users the real Fable experiance. Maybe its because Kinect is not the future and Microsoft's full of shit, or it is the future and Microsoft is just not willing to support it worried they are wrong or that fans won't buy their products.

Lastly Motion+ is no longer a peripheral. It is technology built in every single Wiimote and bundled with every single Wii its no more a peripheral then Rumble is. If Motion+ is a peripheral then so is the Wiimote. Can't say the same about Kinect because even if its bundled it is still a seperate device incapable of playing the mainstream games.

It seems you need to figure out what is a peripheral and what is a platform? Whether you think Microsoft is right or full of shit? Because you appear to contradict Microsoft at every turn. Kinect is a peripheral not a platform and not suitable for mainstream franchises while Microsoft says Kinect is the future.

hey michael, buzz off yeah? not talking to you and we are not children..so boo friggin hoo about this so called 'bullying' >_> I mean really? bullying? LOL wtf kind of bullying yu had in your life I have no idea but this is not bullying

and no his comments were ignorant and hence he is being ignorant..not an insult its fact..its same as me calling you ignorant for judging games without playing them :) like you do all the time but when called out you run around the points for so damn long that the other side gets tired and stops..hence why I don't bother with you or you omfg i played this game and this guy shot me from the roof the camperzzz..oh but i played it for 10mins comments anymore..and also why I ask people who play and actually good at MP players like osamanoobama etc why they bother with you :) so do me a favor in my attempt to 'ignore' you cuz it's a waste of my time..let me.

You treat people as if you were a jerk? Better? Don't mean to insult, figured bullying would be more appropriate term, but I guess harassing is good too.

Don't start a debate immediatly insulting people. It's just bad ediquite. People don't have to agree with you to be right, everyone has their own opinion. Don't finish comments with insults either. Not only is it incredibly rude, but It shows an inability to communicate with others appropriatly.

Also P.S. I don't judge games before I play them. Don't hate me because I find killzone 3 MP unbalanced. I played online for hours, not 10 minutes, I don't need to invest dozens of hours to critique a game. Geez, again, insulting others who have a different opinion then you. Stop acting this way man, people have different opinions. Your treating Joel for his opinion about move/kinect no differently then me for my opinion about KZ. Give it a rest man.

lol you're such a drama queen geez..now it's 'harassment'? 0_o daymn what kind of a traumatic past did you have?

calling someone ignorant when they are is not an insult..if you think that's an insult...lol not sure what to tell ya

and thanks for the analysis freud, even if its baseless and useless , I appreciate it..it made for a good laugh

and ps: LOL! we showed you were full of it! you were caught talking about KZ3 even before you played it..you didn't know about the perk system etc etc and said they don't exist even! you called it unbalaned when both sides got mechs in some maps....you know what :D Not gonna bother anymore, you just reaaaaaally suck at the game ;) its fine, not everyone can be good