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Reggie comments on new consoles, criticizes Move/Kinect for lack of games.

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Reggie comments on new consoles, criticizes Move/Kinect for lack of games.

Torillian said:
Rainbird said:
Machina said:
People in glass houses...

My thoughts exactly. It's one thing that the Wii doesn't have that many games releasing at the moment, but the real comparison should be to the M+, and I dare say the Move and Kinect compare favorably.


I'll quote this because it seems to be ignored.  Yes Reggie is right that Nintendo has put more effort behind their motion controls than Sony or MS, but they're comparing an entire console to a peripheral.  A better comparison would be how Nintendo supported their own peripherals like Wii Motion + or the Balance Board, which leaves them a lot more like Sony and MS in my eyes.

it seems that certain fans are hell bent on ignoring, the periphial vs. console thing. Its like they want to pretend that M+ doesnt exist. 



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If the proper equivalent for Kinect and Move is Motion Plus, then certainly Sony and Microsoft have been doing a better job at supporting them. Granted that neither of them have found a game of equal impact to Wii Sports Resort, but the quantity is certainly there where it in no way is on Wii



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:
If the proper equivalent for Kinect and Move is Motion Plus, then certainly Sony and Microsoft have been doing a better job at supporting them. Granted that neither of them have found a game of equal impact to Wii Sports Resort, but the quantity is certainly there where it in no way is on Wii


I would argue that kinect adventures is on its way since it was packaged with Kinect, but no game is really going to reach Resort levels, since that game is heavily bundled



M.U.G.E.N said:
Joelcool7 said:

Also I decided maybe I should speak on topic. Reggie did have a very valid point when he said Move and Kinect suffered from a lack of great software.

Move is reliant heavily on titles that can be played without it. Very few games have been made that utalize Move as the primary control system and even fewer are of high enough quality to consider worthy of a purchase of a Move controller, camera and Nav. Where are the games?

Kinect despite all the talk about Gunstringer etc...etc.. and how amazing they are. Dance Central is almost the only successful title on the device. Kinectimals and Kinect Sports did fairly well as well. However the majority of the software has failed on a massive scale and that is not because consumers are idiots its because the quality of the software and the experiances it offers are drastically inferior to the offerings of Nintendo , Move or even the classic control devices.

Reggie has a very good point because of the three companies Nintendo is the only one who actually invested its whole console in motion controls. Nintendo put its money where its mouth was, they created the first party AAA+ software to support the Wii and they gambled heavily not spreading their support between classic and motion.

Nintendo actually supported their motion controller. Say what you will but Microsoft nor Sony have actually put their might behind their motion controls. To them they are just another peripheral, Nintendo is going the route that motion control is the future and rather then spending money and resources on supporting the old control styles they are investing entirely in the future.

Reggie is going to be completely right about this till Microsoft and Sony put their full might behind their devices. Which they will not do, even if Microsoft continues with Kinect with their next console it will not replace the classic controller. Microsoft is incapable of creating a format that both offers an experiance that Nintendo/Sony does not while giving consumers the quality software that they require. Kinect can't replace controllers at least not in the foreseeble future. Move could very well replace the classic controller, but Sony doesn't have the balls to go all in. Sony tested the waters rather then jumping head first in, Sony realized that they could not give up the DualShock and compete with Nintendo and/or Microsoft. They are tied with the fact that neither Sony nor Microsoft can afford to drop their classic controller.

Nintendo is in a position where it can continue to innovate, create new control devices and offer new gaming experiances. A luxory that Microsoft and Sony do not have. Personally I understand exactly why Microsoft and Sony haven't thrown their full weight behind motion controls, but as long as they do not Reggie has a major point!


so much fail and damage control in this one post 0_o how do you manage such a feat is beyond me..'slow clap'

few shocking info for you

1. Move and Kinect ARE peripherals! 'gasp' unlike Wii the whole console is built around motion controls.

2. Move has a lot of games that supports it. Look em up and get over that ignorance of yours. And games like KZ3 utilizes Move REALLY well. Wouldn't be surpirsed if Move had more games supporting it since launch than Ninty had for Motion plus. there ARE quality games as well, have you played games like Tumble? Echochrome 2? they are great great games

3. Kinect has a lot of games as well. Again look it up before ranting. Some of them are REALLY good as well. and sales, you are on vgc, go look it up. many games have sold really well. How many kinect games have you tried out? I can tell you now it has a lot of quality games already! and they are a lot of fun. so what games do you refer to when you mention 'inferior' games here? or are you just pulling that out of you know where?

4. You are all over the place with your essay above. You seem to mix up support for a console and peripheral. It's actually shameful that neither Motion plus nor the wii itself got any support anywhere near to that of Xbox+ kinect or Ps3 + move. what 'balls' you are talking about here, I have no idea. You mean the balls of dropping all good support for your console and rush next gen with a confusing clusterfuck of a presentation at E3...Ninty does have those balls in abundance these days. What decent games have your beloved system had this year prior to the holiday season? I bet you can count them in one hand...maybe 5 fingers will be too much for that task even.

5. Sony and MS have had different approaches to the system. They understand what their current fan base wants. They cater to it. We didn't have any operation dryfalls to beg for games (and get refused LOL)..we get them even without asking for them. Sony fans do NOT want Move to replace DS controller, and I hope they never does. Sony seems to understand this and hence why support for the peripheral and the console at the same time. Same goes for MS.

6. This rubbish about ninty is in a place to innovate but ms and sony is not is just bullocks. 0_o I'm not even sure what that stupid statement means or what reasons you have behind it. MS and Sony have brought a lot of things to gaming arena as well, some areas where Ninty are lagging behind pathetically. Case in point, Online gaming. The only 'place' ninty seems to be is a place of desperation and stupid remarks such as what's wrong with you these days. Or a home console that does something similar to Ipad (a better version I'm sure since that's what the whole console is about)

I personally understand why you are blind to the reality and worship Nintendo. ...actually no i don't. considering the support wii is getting from them I would imagine any sensible person would be at least annoyed with them. But nope..why? no idea whatsoever


Man I appear to have struck a nerve, let me address each of your points.

1.Umm you see Microsoft specifically stated Kinect is not a peripheral it is a console. Now of course we can ignore Microsoft's actual intentions and statements and refer to the device as a peripheral because it obviously is. But Microsoft themselves view it as a platform as such they should be giving it the support of a platform. As for Move yah it is also a peripheral but one Sony suggested would replace Wii and many industry analysts and insiders stated that Move was a platform and that it was WiiHD. There appears to be an identity crisis hear both Sony and Microsoft want their peripherals to be considered new platforms but their users and likely they themselves don't want to be compared to an actual motion control platform because lets face it Move and Kinect are not.

2. please don't resort to insults saying I am ignorant. I never stated that their were not amazing games compatable with Move. I stated "Move is reliant heavily on titles that can be played without it. Very few games have been made that utalize Move as the primary control system"  As for Motion plus you are absolutly right the device isn't supported as much as it should be. However none of the software exclusive to Move are actually capable of standing up to even the one major Motion plus game "Legend Of Zelda:Skyward Sword". So what you are saying is their are a lot more titles on Move then Motion Plus, but are you going to possibly argue that a single one of those games is actually as high quality as LoZ:SS. What you are arguing is quantity over quality and what Reggie was arguing was quality rather then quantity. You can make 100 shitty games for Move and Motion Plus have 5 amazing games, which platform is better for the consumer? I seem to recall Sony and Microsoft fans always saying how Sure Wii has 10x as many games but Sony and Microsoft have the quality games the GTAZ's Assassins Creed's etc...etc... 360/PS3 have the high quality software and as such even though they have far fewer games they are a superior platform because the few games they do have are vastly superior in quality? Or as a Sony/MS fan do you think Wii is a better platform because it has more games?

3.Kinect, yah Kinect has some pretty fun titles I personally enjoyed Kinectimals as well as Dance Central. But that does not mean that the titles are of high enough quality to be considered in line with the majority of Nintendo's software. Dance Central couldn't be done on any other platform lets face it so its very hard to consider if it was higher or lower quality then Nintendo's offerings. But lets look at sales and you note that Just Dance got way way higher sales and has a much larger user base. But lets put Dance Central aside, Kinectimals is a great game as well but in all honesty is it better then Nintendogs or even some of the Petz games? But lets give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt and say that two is a great game. Well then you have Kinect Sports which is a rip off of the many sports titles on Wii including third party but of course first party. The game is not of much higher quality then WiiSports/Resort if at all. It is not superior software. Then look at all the other offerings, I played Rise of Nightmares the big game for Kinect this winter, it was complete and utter shit. Gunstringer was alright but wasn't a title you could enjoy much longer then an hour or so. I haven't bothered playing many other titles I watch the trailers and see them at PAX and honestly they look like shit. Now arguably some of the Kinect titles are not that bad but how can you possibly suggest they are of Nintendo quality? EVen if we remove all the third party disasters from Kinect and match the first party software against Nintendo's first party software their is little comparison.

5. Already addressed this above. As for balls Microsoft stated Kinect was a platform, as such they should have given it the support of a platform. They talked the talk but didn't walk the walk they didn't put their money where their mouths are. Neither Sony nor Microsoft put their companies completely behind their motion controllers, neither of them have the guts to move completely from classic controls to motion controls. As much as Microsoft likes to say Kinect is the future, they are fully aware that they couldn't take on Wii or other motion based control systems without still having the classic controller. I'm not saying it would be smart for Microsoft or Sony to make a full move to motion controls in fact I thought it was pretty unsmart when Nintendo did. But the fact is Nintendo actually went in a new direction entirely they decided to shed the past and fully support motion controls. Where as Microsoft and Sony will support motion controls a little to steal some market share but in reality neither company has any interest in truly going motion based.

6. I'm sorta confused and I think this statement is a trap. As such I won't respond everyone knows what contributions Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo have made. Saying any one made no contributions is foolish!

P.S- you comment about how Nintendo hasn't supported Wii with quality software outside of the holiday season as an example of Nintendo not providing the quality software Microsoft and Sony have. Would you care to name a single first party title from Sony or Microsoft for Kinect or Move exclusively that comes anywhere near to the quality comparison with either Skyward Sword or Even Kirby? You can then argue that it is a peripheral issue and make the debate about Motion Plus, so then I need to ask is their a single first party title from Sony or Microsoft exclusive to Kinect or Move that comes anywhere close to the quality of Skyward Sword?



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"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer

 

oniyide said:
Mr Khan said:
If the proper equivalent for Kinect and Move is Motion Plus, then certainly Sony and Microsoft have been doing a better job at supporting them. Granted that neither of them have found a game of equal impact to Wii Sports Resort, but the quantity is certainly there where it in no way is on Wii

I would argue that kinect adventures is on its way since it was packaged with Kinect, but no game is really going to reach Resort levels, since that game is heavily bundled

Wii Sports Resort sold about 15 million copies before it got bundled with the Wii.



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Joelcool7 said:
M.U.G.E.N said:
Joelcool7 said:

Also I decided maybe I should speak on topic. Reggie did have a very valid point when he said Move and Kinect suffered from a lack of great software.

Move is reliant heavily on titles that can be played without it. Very few games have been made that utalize Move as the primary control system and even fewer are of high enough quality to consider worthy of a purchase of a Move controller, camera and Nav. Where are the games?

Kinect despite all the talk about Gunstringer etc...etc.. and how amazing they are. Dance Central is almost the only successful title on the device. Kinectimals and Kinect Sports did fairly well as well. However the majority of the software has failed on a massive scale and that is not because consumers are idiots its because the quality of the software and the experiances it offers are drastically inferior to the offerings of Nintendo , Move or even the classic control devices.

Reggie has a very good point because of the three companies Nintendo is the only one who actually invested its whole console in motion controls. Nintendo put its money where its mouth was, they created the first party AAA+ software to support the Wii and they gambled heavily not spreading their support between classic and motion.

Nintendo actually supported their motion controller. Say what you will but Microsoft nor Sony have actually put their might behind their motion controls. To them they are just another peripheral, Nintendo is going the route that motion control is the future and rather then spending money and resources on supporting the old control styles they are investing entirely in the future.

Reggie is going to be completely right about this till Microsoft and Sony put their full might behind their devices. Which they will not do, even if Microsoft continues with Kinect with their next console it will not replace the classic controller. Microsoft is incapable of creating a format that both offers an experiance that Nintendo/Sony does not while giving consumers the quality software that they require. Kinect can't replace controllers at least not in the foreseeble future. Move could very well replace the classic controller, but Sony doesn't have the balls to go all in. Sony tested the waters rather then jumping head first in, Sony realized that they could not give up the DualShock and compete with Nintendo and/or Microsoft. They are tied with the fact that neither Sony nor Microsoft can afford to drop their classic controller.

Nintendo is in a position where it can continue to innovate, create new control devices and offer new gaming experiances. A luxory that Microsoft and Sony do not have. Personally I understand exactly why Microsoft and Sony haven't thrown their full weight behind motion controls, but as long as they do not Reggie has a major point!


so much fail and damage control in this one post 0_o how do you manage such a feat is beyond me..'slow clap'

few shocking info for you

1. Move and Kinect ARE peripherals! 'gasp' unlike Wii the whole console is built around motion controls.

2. Move has a lot of games that supports it. Look em up and get over that ignorance of yours. And games like KZ3 utilizes Move REALLY well. Wouldn't be surpirsed if Move had more games supporting it since launch than Ninty had for Motion plus. there ARE quality games as well, have you played games like Tumble? Echochrome 2? they are great great games

3. Kinect has a lot of games as well. Again look it up before ranting. Some of them are REALLY good as well. and sales, you are on vgc, go look it up. many games have sold really well. How many kinect games have you tried out? I can tell you now it has a lot of quality games already! and they are a lot of fun. so what games do you refer to when you mention 'inferior' games here? or are you just pulling that out of you know where?

4. You are all over the place with your essay above. You seem to mix up support for a console and peripheral. It's actually shameful that neither Motion plus nor the wii itself got any support anywhere near to that of Xbox+ kinect or Ps3 + move. what 'balls' you are talking about here, I have no idea. You mean the balls of dropping all good support for your console and rush next gen with a confusing clusterfuck of a presentation at E3...Ninty does have those balls in abundance these days. What decent games have your beloved system had this year prior to the holiday season? I bet you can count them in one hand...maybe 5 fingers will be too much for that task even.

5. Sony and MS have had different approaches to the system. They understand what their current fan base wants. They cater to it. We didn't have any operation dryfalls to beg for games (and get refused LOL)..we get them even without asking for them. Sony fans do NOT want Move to replace DS controller, and I hope they never does. Sony seems to understand this and hence why support for the peripheral and the console at the same time. Same goes for MS.

6. This rubbish about ninty is in a place to innovate but ms and sony is not is just bullocks. 0_o I'm not even sure what that stupid statement means or what reasons you have behind it. MS and Sony have brought a lot of things to gaming arena as well, some areas where Ninty are lagging behind pathetically. Case in point, Online gaming. The only 'place' ninty seems to be is a place of desperation and stupid remarks such as what's wrong with you these days. Or a home console that does something similar to Ipad (a better version I'm sure since that's what the whole console is about)

I personally understand why you are blind to the reality and worship Nintendo. ...actually no i don't. considering the support wii is getting from them I would imagine any sensible person would be at least annoyed with them. But nope..why? no idea whatsoever


Man I appear to have struck a nerve, let me address each of your points.

1.Umm you see Microsoft specifically stated Kinect is not a peripheral it is a console. Now of course we can ignore Microsoft's actual intentions and statements and refer to the device as a peripheral because it obviously is. But Microsoft themselves view it as a platform as such they should be giving it the support of a platform. As for Move yah it is also a peripheral but one Sony suggested would replace Wii and many industry analysts and insiders stated that Move was a platform and that it was WiiHD. There appears to be an identity crisis hear both Sony and Microsoft want their peripherals to be considered new platforms but their users and likely they themselves don't want to be compared to an actual motion control platform because lets face it Move and Kinect are not.

2. please don't resort to insults saying I am ignorant. I never stated that their were not amazing games compatable with Move. I stated "Move is reliant heavily on titles that can be played without it. Very few games have been made that utalize Move as the primary control system"  As for Motion plus you are absolutly right the device isn't supported as much as it should be. However none of the software exclusive to Move are actually capable of standing up to even the one major Motion plus game "Legend Of Zelda:Skyward Sword". So what you are saying is their are a lot more titles on Move then Motion Plus, but are you going to possibly argue that a single one of those games is actually as high quality as LoZ:SS. What you are arguing is quantity over quality and what Reggie was arguing was quality rather then quantity. You can make 100 shitty games for Move and Motion Plus have 5 amazing games, which platform is better for the consumer? I seem to recall Sony and Microsoft fans always saying how Sure Wii has 10x as many games but Sony and Microsoft have the quality games the GTAZ's Assassins Creed's etc...etc... 360/PS3 have the high quality software and as such even though they have far fewer games they are a superior platform because the few games they do have are vastly superior in quality? Or as a Sony/MS fan do you think Wii is a better platform because it has more games?

3.Kinect, yah Kinect has some pretty fun titles I personally enjoyed Kinectimals as well as Dance Central. But that does not mean that the titles are of high enough quality to be considered in line with the majority of Nintendo's software. Dance Central couldn't be done on any other platform lets face it so its very hard to consider if it was higher or lower quality then Nintendo's offerings. But lets look at sales and you note that Just Dance got way way higher sales and has a much larger user base. But lets put Dance Central aside, Kinectimals is a great game as well but in all honesty is it better then Nintendogs or even some of the Petz games? But lets give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt and say that two is a great game. Well then you have Kinect Sports which is a rip off of the many sports titles on Wii including third party but of course first party. The game is not of much higher quality then WiiSports/Resort if at all. It is not superior software. Then look at all the other offerings, I played Rise of Nightmares the big game for Kinect this winter, it was complete and utter shit. Gunstringer was alright but wasn't a title you could enjoy much longer then an hour or so. I haven't bothered playing many other titles I watch the trailers and see them at PAX and honestly they look like shit. Now arguably some of the Kinect titles are not that bad but how can you possibly suggest they are of Nintendo quality? EVen if we remove all the third party disasters from Kinect and match the first party software against Nintendo's first party software their is little comparison.

5. Already addressed this above. As for balls Microsoft stated Kinect was a platform, as such they should have given it the support of a platform. They talked the talk but didn't walk the walk they didn't put their money where their mouths are. Neither Sony nor Microsoft put their companies completely behind their motion controllers, neither of them have the guts to move completely from classic controls to motion controls. As much as Microsoft likes to say Kinect is the future, they are fully aware that they couldn't take on Wii or other motion based control systems without still having the classic controller. I'm not saying it would be smart for Microsoft or Sony to make a full move to motion controls in fact I thought it was pretty unsmart when Nintendo did. But the fact is Nintendo actually went in a new direction entirely they decided to shed the past and fully support motion controls. Where as Microsoft and Sony will support motion controls a little to steal some market share but in reality neither company has any interest in truly going motion based.

6. I'm sorta confused and I think this statement is a trap. As such I won't respond everyone knows what contributions Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo have made. Saying any one made no contributions is foolish!

P.S- you comment about how Nintendo hasn't supported Wii with quality software outside of the holiday season as an example of Nintendo not providing the quality software Microsoft and Sony have. Would you care to name a single first party title from Sony or Microsoft for Kinect or Move exclusively that comes anywhere near to the quality comparison with either Skyward Sword or Even Kirby? You can then argue that it is a peripheral issue and make the debate about Motion Plus, so then I need to ask is their a single first party title from Sony or Microsoft exclusive to Kinect or Move that comes anywhere close to the quality of Skyward Sword?

well you wrote an essay full of damage control :P the nerves are being hit alright..just not on me

1. calling you ignorant when you actually are is not an insult, it's just how it is. MS treated and treats kinect as a console, in their marketing and such. they have promoted it a LOT! that's the meaning behind their words, I am surprised you don't get that. I do not recall sony saying ps3 + move wll replace wii...tho I imagine it actually happening at least in some households considering the lack of support the device gets.  not sure where this delusion of an identity crisis comes from? They support their console AND their peripheral, unlike Nintendo who doesn't support both of those well and sudenly have gone into statements such as core games ignored us cuz we are not HD...what's wrong with you etc etc. Trust me from the desperate acts and statements such as that the crisis is at the ninty camp. Sony and MS have been doing what they have doing all along just fine.

2. your whole angry rant has come down omfg bu bu you haz no zelda? 0_o LOL what makes you think either sony or ms would be STUPID enough to make a game like Halo or GT5 or something kincet or Move centric? NO FAN WANTS THAT! unless you want to alienate your own fans that is..this is not ninty we are talking about here. Kinect and Move have had different approaches to them...kinect has been mainly aimed at casual gamers and hence a lot of casual titles (some of which are absolutely amazing btw) Move has been an optional control scheme mainly for the core ps fans, hence excellent move implimentation in games like KZ3. This is not rocket science, it's just different approaches

3. 0_o do you like read what you type? what a messy miniessay is this? You are contradicitng yourself over and over again...Dance central is at or above any M+ games on the wii for certain. Kinectimals and Kinect Sports don't fall behind any of the ninty offerings either...not even sure what you base this 'quality' statement on really? Those are fun games and work great. end of story. so in around 5 years Ninty have provided how many good M+ games? and in a year Move and Kinect has supported how many games? This 'nintendo' quality thing is a very subjective matter, it all comes down to personal preference. For example I find games like red steel/SR boring and overrated...doesn't mean it's not a quality title to others. Games like Dance central, Sports Champions, Echochrome, Tumble are very good quality games imho. but I won't put it forth as 'fact'

4.  don't ignore this :P Peripheral vs Console..forget PR, forget fanboy claims...it is what it is. I'm sure you are smart enough to distinguish a console from a peripheral

5. what part of different approaches don't you get? good lord man, stop running around the issue. MS especially, have put more money behind Kienct than Ninty has for M+! the one who doesn't deliver constant stream of games for M+ OR wii is Nintendo while MS and SOny both support their consoles and peripherals well. I know you like getting all defensive about nintendo all the time but seriously LOL how can you even say the things you say is just baffling.

6. ugh trap? paranoia overload! you said ninty is in a place to innovate but ms/sony isn't which is a load of crap at its finest shittiest form.

your 'ps' bit just shows your desperation here :D bubu you haz no zelda? LOL I already addressed this...fans don't want a kinect only or Move only Halo/GT5/Uncharted etc hence we won't get it. and I sure as hell HOPE we won't get it.  and also platform vs console, two very different things ;) might wanna think about that.



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great marketing move by Reggie......



M.U.G.E.N said:
Joelcool7 said:
M.U.G.E.N said:
Joelcool7 said:

Also I decided maybe I should speak on topic. Reggie did have a very valid point when he said Move and Kinect suffered from a lack of great software.

Move is reliant heavily on titles that can be played without it. Very few games have been made that utalize Move as the primary control system and even fewer are of high enough quality to consider worthy of a purchase of a Move controller, camera and Nav. Where are the games?

Kinect despite all the talk about Gunstringer etc...etc.. and how amazing they are. Dance Central is almost the only successful title on the device. Kinectimals and Kinect Sports did fairly well as well. However the majority of the software has failed on a massive scale and that is not because consumers are idiots its because the quality of the software and the experiances it offers are drastically inferior to the offerings of Nintendo , Move or even the classic control devices.

Reggie has a very good point because of the three companies Nintendo is the only one who actually invested its whole console in motion controls. Nintendo put its money where its mouth was, they created the first party AAA+ software to support the Wii and they gambled heavily not spreading their support between classic and motion.

Nintendo actually supported their motion controller. Say what you will but Microsoft nor Sony have actually put their might behind their motion controls. To them they are just another peripheral, Nintendo is going the route that motion control is the future and rather then spending money and resources on supporting the old control styles they are investing entirely in the future.

Reggie is going to be completely right about this till Microsoft and Sony put their full might behind their devices. Which they will not do, even if Microsoft continues with Kinect with their next console it will not replace the classic controller. Microsoft is incapable of creating a format that both offers an experiance that Nintendo/Sony does not while giving consumers the quality software that they require. Kinect can't replace controllers at least not in the foreseeble future. Move could very well replace the classic controller, but Sony doesn't have the balls to go all in. Sony tested the waters rather then jumping head first in, Sony realized that they could not give up the DualShock and compete with Nintendo and/or Microsoft. They are tied with the fact that neither Sony nor Microsoft can afford to drop their classic controller.

Nintendo is in a position where it can continue to innovate, create new control devices and offer new gaming experiances. A luxory that Microsoft and Sony do not have. Personally I understand exactly why Microsoft and Sony haven't thrown their full weight behind motion controls, but as long as they do not Reggie has a major point!


so much fail and damage control in this one post 0_o how do you manage such a feat is beyond me..'slow clap'

few shocking info for you

1. Move and Kinect ARE peripherals! 'gasp' unlike Wii the whole console is built around motion controls.

2. Move has a lot of games that supports it. Look em up and get over that ignorance of yours. And games like KZ3 utilizes Move REALLY well. Wouldn't be surpirsed if Move had more games supporting it since launch than Ninty had for Motion plus. there ARE quality games as well, have you played games like Tumble? Echochrome 2? they are great great games

3. Kinect has a lot of games as well. Again look it up before ranting. Some of them are REALLY good as well. and sales, you are on vgc, go look it up. many games have sold really well. How many kinect games have you tried out? I can tell you now it has a lot of quality games already! and they are a lot of fun. so what games do you refer to when you mention 'inferior' games here? or are you just pulling that out of you know where?

4. You are all over the place with your essay above. You seem to mix up support for a console and peripheral. It's actually shameful that neither Motion plus nor the wii itself got any support anywhere near to that of Xbox+ kinect or Ps3 + move. what 'balls' you are talking about here, I have no idea. You mean the balls of dropping all good support for your console and rush next gen with a confusing clusterfuck of a presentation at E3...Ninty does have those balls in abundance these days. What decent games have your beloved system had this year prior to the holiday season? I bet you can count them in one hand...maybe 5 fingers will be too much for that task even.

5. Sony and MS have had different approaches to the system. They understand what their current fan base wants. They cater to it. We didn't have any operation dryfalls to beg for games (and get refused LOL)..we get them even without asking for them. Sony fans do NOT want Move to replace DS controller, and I hope they never does. Sony seems to understand this and hence why support for the peripheral and the console at the same time. Same goes for MS.

6. This rubbish about ninty is in a place to innovate but ms and sony is not is just bullocks. 0_o I'm not even sure what that stupid statement means or what reasons you have behind it. MS and Sony have brought a lot of things to gaming arena as well, some areas where Ninty are lagging behind pathetically. Case in point, Online gaming. The only 'place' ninty seems to be is a place of desperation and stupid remarks such as what's wrong with you these days. Or a home console that does something similar to Ipad (a better version I'm sure since that's what the whole console is about)

I personally understand why you are blind to the reality and worship Nintendo. ...actually no i don't. considering the support wii is getting from them I would imagine any sensible person would be at least annoyed with them. But nope..why? no idea whatsoever


Man I appear to have struck a nerve, let me address each of your points.

1.Umm you see Microsoft specifically stated Kinect is not a peripheral it is a console. Now of course we can ignore Microsoft's actual intentions and statements and refer to the device as a peripheral because it obviously is. But Microsoft themselves view it as a platform as such they should be giving it the support of a platform. As for Move yah it is also a peripheral but one Sony suggested would replace Wii and many industry analysts and insiders stated that Move was a platform and that it was WiiHD. There appears to be an identity crisis hear both Sony and Microsoft want their peripherals to be considered new platforms but their users and likely they themselves don't want to be compared to an actual motion control platform because lets face it Move and Kinect are not.

2. please don't resort to insults saying I am ignorant. I never stated that their were not amazing games compatable with Move. I stated "Move is reliant heavily on titles that can be played without it. Very few games have been made that utalize Move as the primary control system"  As for Motion plus you are absolutly right the device isn't supported as much as it should be. However none of the software exclusive to Move are actually capable of standing up to even the one major Motion plus game "Legend Of Zelda:Skyward Sword". So what you are saying is their are a lot more titles on Move then Motion Plus, but are you going to possibly argue that a single one of those games is actually as high quality as LoZ:SS. What you are arguing is quantity over quality and what Reggie was arguing was quality rather then quantity. You can make 100 shitty games for Move and Motion Plus have 5 amazing games, which platform is better for the consumer? I seem to recall Sony and Microsoft fans always saying how Sure Wii has 10x as many games but Sony and Microsoft have the quality games the GTAZ's Assassins Creed's etc...etc... 360/PS3 have the high quality software and as such even though they have far fewer games they are a superior platform because the few games they do have are vastly superior in quality? Or as a Sony/MS fan do you think Wii is a better platform because it has more games?

3.Kinect, yah Kinect has some pretty fun titles I personally enjoyed Kinectimals as well as Dance Central. But that does not mean that the titles are of high enough quality to be considered in line with the majority of Nintendo's software. Dance Central couldn't be done on any other platform lets face it so its very hard to consider if it was higher or lower quality then Nintendo's offerings. But lets look at sales and you note that Just Dance got way way higher sales and has a much larger user base. But lets put Dance Central aside, Kinectimals is a great game as well but in all honesty is it better then Nintendogs or even some of the Petz games? But lets give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt and say that two is a great game. Well then you have Kinect Sports which is a rip off of the many sports titles on Wii including third party but of course first party. The game is not of much higher quality then WiiSports/Resort if at all. It is not superior software. Then look at all the other offerings, I played Rise of Nightmares the big game for Kinect this winter, it was complete and utter shit. Gunstringer was alright but wasn't a title you could enjoy much longer then an hour or so. I haven't bothered playing many other titles I watch the trailers and see them at PAX and honestly they look like shit. Now arguably some of the Kinect titles are not that bad but how can you possibly suggest they are of Nintendo quality? EVen if we remove all the third party disasters from Kinect and match the first party software against Nintendo's first party software their is little comparison.

5. Already addressed this above. As for balls Microsoft stated Kinect was a platform, as such they should have given it the support of a platform. They talked the talk but didn't walk the walk they didn't put their money where their mouths are. Neither Sony nor Microsoft put their companies completely behind their motion controllers, neither of them have the guts to move completely from classic controls to motion controls. As much as Microsoft likes to say Kinect is the future, they are fully aware that they couldn't take on Wii or other motion based control systems without still having the classic controller. I'm not saying it would be smart for Microsoft or Sony to make a full move to motion controls in fact I thought it was pretty unsmart when Nintendo did. But the fact is Nintendo actually went in a new direction entirely they decided to shed the past and fully support motion controls. Where as Microsoft and Sony will support motion controls a little to steal some market share but in reality neither company has any interest in truly going motion based.

6. I'm sorta confused and I think this statement is a trap. As such I won't respond everyone knows what contributions Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo have made. Saying any one made no contributions is foolish!

P.S- you comment about how Nintendo hasn't supported Wii with quality software outside of the holiday season as an example of Nintendo not providing the quality software Microsoft and Sony have. Would you care to name a single first party title from Sony or Microsoft for Kinect or Move exclusively that comes anywhere near to the quality comparison with either Skyward Sword or Even Kirby? You can then argue that it is a peripheral issue and make the debate about Motion Plus, so then I need to ask is their a single first party title from Sony or Microsoft exclusive to Kinect or Move that comes anywhere close to the quality of Skyward Sword?

well you wrote an essay full of damage control :P the nerves are being hit alright..just not on me

1. calling you ignorant when you actually are is not an insult, it's just how it is. MS treated and treats kinect as a console, in their marketing and such. they have promoted it a LOT! that's the meaning behind their words, I am surprised you don't get that. I do not recall sony saying ps3 + move wll replace wii...tho I imagine it actually happening at least in some households considering the lack of support the device gets.  not sure where this delusion of an identity crisis comes from? They support their console AND their peripheral, unlike Nintendo who doesn't support both of those well and sudenly have gone into statements such as core games ignored us cuz we are not HD...what's wrong with you etc etc. Trust me from the desperate acts and statements such as that the crisis is at the ninty camp. Sony and MS have been doing what they have doing all along just fine.

2. your whole angry rant has come down omfg bu bu you haz no zelda? 0_o LOL what makes you think either sony or ms would be STUPID enough to make a game like Halo or GT5 or something kincet or Move centric? NO FAN WANTS THAT! unless you want to alienate your own fans that is..this is not ninty we are talking about here. Kinect and Move have had different approaches to them...kinect has been mainly aimed at casual gamers and hence a lot of casual titles (some of which are absolutely amazing btw) Move has been an optional control scheme mainly for the core ps fans, hence excellent move implimentation in games like KZ3. This is not rocket science, it's just different approaches

3. 0_o do you like read what you type? what a messy miniessay is this? You are contradicitng yourself over and over again...Dance central is at or above any M+ games on the wii for certain. Kinectimals and Kinect Sports don't fall behind any of the ninty offerings either...not even sure what you base this 'quality' statement on really? Those are fun games and work great. end of story. so in around 5 years Ninty have provided how many good M+ games? and in a year Move and Kinect has supported how many games? This 'nintendo' quality thing is a very subjective matter, it all comes down to personal preference. For example I find games like red steel/SR boring and overrated...doesn't mean it's not a quality title to others. Games like Dance central, Sports Champions, Echochrome, Tumble are very good quality games imho. but I won't put it forth as 'fact'

4.  don't ignore this :P Peripheral vs Console..forget PR, forget fanboy claims...it is what it is. I'm sure you are smart enough to distinguish a console from a peripheral

5. what part of different approaches don't you get? good lord man, stop running around the issue. MS especially, have put more money behind Kienct than Ninty has for M+! the one who doesn't deliver constant stream of games for M+ OR wii is Nintendo while MS and SOny both support their consoles and peripherals well. I know you like getting all defensive about nintendo all the time but seriously LOL how can you even say the things you say is just baffling.

6. ugh trap? paranoia overload! you said ninty is in a place to innovate but ms/sony isn't which is a load of crap at its finest shittiest form.

your 'ps' bit just shows your desperation here :D bubu you haz no zelda? LOL I already addressed this...fans don't want a kinect only or Move only Halo/GT5/Uncharted etc hence we won't get it. and I sure as hell HOPE we won't get it.  and also platform vs console, two very different things ;) might wanna think about that.

I'm not going to interrupt for long, but MUGEN you tend to be very rude. Your first line in your response basically was intended to demean Joelcool. You have no right to say his opinion is a fail, and that he is ignorant, everyone has their own perspective on current gen consoles, and it's good someone is standing up for the Wii here.

Also have you played Killzone 3 with Move? It's not utilized well, it feels like a last minute addition. Slow reaction speeds, hard to aim at targets, and yea...just read some reviews, no one said anything special about Move being integrated with Killzone. With Dead Space Extraction it's freaken awesome, but that's a slower paced game, and a Wii port.

Anyway, don't force your opinion onto others MUGEN. Not everyone thinks highly of Kinect and Move, and I agree with Joel. Nintendo has always lead with innovation, and Sony and MS tend to copy (Motion gaming, analog sticks, start/select buttons, shoulder buttons, 4 button layout with D-Pad, wireless controllers, touch screens on handhelds, etc)

Good Job Joel, don't let him bully you.



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Stop with the long ass quotes guys!! its So damn annoying O_o



I have KZ3 and only use Move, dont see the problems. Maybe some guys just suck at the game, or should adjust the settings