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Forums - Politics Discussion - Do you believe equality and equal treatment under a law to be undesirable?

This video argues against welfare, and anything remotely resembling equality of any sort.  It asks, why should humans be viewed as having any more or less value than animals.  Do you agree or disagree with this video?

 

And I will ask, and had, why not allow the person who is strongest and most cunning, and most capable of generating a supportive mob be the one who gets everything and superior treatment in life, rather than markets?



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That speech was too boring, couldn't watch a black screen for 15 minutes with some guy talking.

As for the topic at hand though I think we need to get rid of social programs and finally have balanced budgets.

If I ran a government I would look after national defense, police and firefighters. Health care and education would be privatized but partially subsidized, i.e. education/health care vouchers. Instead of welfare/unemployment insurance I would go with Milton Friedman's idea of a negative income tax.



I'm pretty sure this was the plot of Bioshock.



Love and tolerate.

Try Immanuel Kant. We deserve to treat each other with equality because we are rational creatures and because we are rational, have an imperative to treat ourselves as a fully autonomous decisionmaker, and an imperative to treat others with similar dignity

Now Kant did not prescribe equality (indeed he was opposed to republicanism in his time), but there is at least a strong rational basis for an equitable and civilized society wherein we treat each other with dignity above that of mere beasts



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

I believe in equal opportunity, not equal results.



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We live in a society where a small portion of the population puts in the work to develop the necessary skills, takes the risks and makes the personal sacrifices to build what is necessary and desired in the economy. Why should we have equality of outcomes when people are so unwilling to share the effort that is required to provide those outcomes?

This is a concept that is fairly commonly taught to children and they seem to be able to understand, but after years in "public" education and liberal universities the lesson has been lost; so I will re-teach it with the same story that was used when I was a child.

Once upon a time, there was a little red hen who lived on a farm. She was friends with a lazy dog, a sleepy cat, and a noisy yellow duck.

One day the little red hen found some seeds on the ground. The little red hen had an idea. She would plant the seeds.

The little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me plant the seeds?"

"Not I," barked the lazy dog.
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat.
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck.

"Then I will," said the little red hen. So the little red hen planted the seeds all by herself.

When the seeds had grown, the little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me cut the wheat?"

"Not I," barked the lazy dog.
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat.
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck.

"Then I will," said the little red hen. So the little red hen cut the wheat all by herself.

When all the wheat was cut, the little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me take the wheat to the mill to be ground into flour?"

"Not I," barked the lazy dog.
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat.
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck.

"Then I will," said the little red hen. So the little red hen brought the wheat to the mill all by herself, ground the wheat into flour , and carried the heavy sack of flour back to the farm.

The tired little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me bake the bread?"

"Not I," barked the lazy dog.
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat.
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck.

"Then I will," said the little red hen . So the little red hen baked the bread all by herself.

When the bread was finished, the tired little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me eat the bread ?"

"I will," barked the lazy dog.
"I will," purred the sleepy cat.
"I will," quacked the noisy yellow duck.

"No!" said the little red hen . "I will." And the little red hen ate the bread all by herself.

 

While it is completely reasonable to take care of those individuals who have physical, mental or emotional reasons why they cannot become productive members of society, and society should ensure that the most basic necessities of life are not denied to anyone regardless of the choices they make, those individuals who put in the work, develop the skills, take on the risk, and make the personal sacrifices to build what is necessary and desired in our economy should be able to be rewarded for their contribution; and those individuals who refuse to make those choices should not be able to steal their rewards through tyranny of the majority.



HappySqurriel said:

We live in a society where a small portion of the population puts in the work to develop the necessary skills, takes the risks and makes the personal sacrifices to build what is necessary and desired in the economy. Why should we have equality of outcomes when people are so unwilling to share the effort that is required to provide those outcomes?

This is a concept that is fairly commonly taught to children and they seem to be able to understand, but after years in "public" education and liberal universities the lesson has been lost; so I will re-teach it with the same story that was used when I was a child.

Once upon a time, there was a little red hen who lived on a farm. She was friends with a lazy dog, a sleepy cat, and a noisy yellow duck.

One day the little red hen found some seeds on the ground. The little red hen had an idea. She would plant the seeds.

The little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me plant the seeds?"

"Not I," barked the lazy dog.
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat.
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck.

"Then I will," said the little red hen. So the little red hen planted the seeds all by herself.

When the seeds had grown, the little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me cut the wheat?"

"Not I," barked the lazy dog.
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat.
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck.

"Then I will," said the little red hen. So the little red hen cut the wheat all by herself.

When all the wheat was cut, the little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me take the wheat to the mill to be ground into flour?"

"Not I," barked the lazy dog.
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat.
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck.

"Then I will," said the little red hen. So the little red hen brought the wheat to the mill all by herself, ground the wheat into flour , and carried the heavy sack of flour back to the farm.

The tired little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me bake the bread?"

"Not I," barked the lazy dog.
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat.
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck.

"Then I will," said the little red hen . So the little red hen baked the bread all by herself.

When the bread was finished, the tired little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me eat the bread ?"

"I will," barked the lazy dog.
"I will," purred the sleepy cat.
"I will," quacked the noisy yellow duck.

"No!" said the little red hen . "I will." And the little red hen ate the bread all by herself.

 

While it is completely reasonable to take care of those individuals who have physical, mental or emotional reasons why they cannot become productive members of society, and society should ensure that the most basic necessities of life are not denied to anyone regardless of the choices they make, those individuals who put in the work, develop the skills, take on the risk, and make the personal sacrifices to build what is necessary and desired in our economy should be able to be rewarded for their contribution; and those individuals who refuse to make those choices should not be able to steal their rewards through tyranny of the majority.


So you're saying that only a small portion of the people are contributing to the society in a meaningful way, or am I missing something here? Does that small group of people include food producers, policemen, carpenters, engineers, nurses etc. or is it limited to economists and investors?



HappySqurriel said:

We live in a society where a small portion of the population puts in the work to develop the necessary skills, takes the risks and makes the personal sacrifices to build what is necessary and desired in the economy. Why should we have equality of outcomes when people are so unwilling to share the effort that is required to provide those outcomes?

State your definition of "take the risks".  My understanding of risk is that it is a form of a calculated gamble that may or may not work out, and the bigger the risk, the more likely you are to have down side that is bad if it doesn't work out. 

So, do you stand by the video in stating that people who are disadvantaged should die, just like animals?



RCTjunkie said:
I believe in equal opportunity, not equal results.


this seems like a reasonable belief, so THIS ^^



forest-spirit said:


So you're saying that only a small portion of the people are contributing to the society in a meaningful way, or am I missing something here? Does that small group of people include food producers, policemen, carpenters, engineers, nurses etc. or is it limited to economists and investors?

Maybe I'm missing your point, but locally you can earn 6 figures working as a farmer, policeman, carpenter, engineer and nurse which seems like a completely fair wage given the skills required, risks taken, and sacrifices made ... In many of these fields, you can take on greater risks and/or sacrifices and become self-employeed or start your own buisness and have the potential to earn "too much money" (ie. $250,000+ per year).

The people who complain about unfair outcomes are those who didn’t complete high-school, didn’t go onto college or a trade school, or studied something easy that they felt like studying with little concern of what skills they would develop; during and after school they have favoured a social life and bought consumer goods using debt so they have virtually no investments, and have been unwilling to put in the long hours required to be one of the few that would stand out in their current position. While they often have decent ideas on what businesses should exist they never even take the first step towards building their own business, and their battle cry is "I thought of (insert popular product) first"