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Microsoft Buys The Gunstringer Developer

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Persistantthug said:

With Microsoft's trainwreck history with developer studios....

 

I'm not sure if this is a good or a bad thing.

Umm what are you talking about?



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yo_john117 said:
Persistantthug said:

With Microsoft's trainwreck history with developer studios....

 

I'm not sure if this is a good or a bad thing.

Umm what are you talking about?


What do you mean 'what are you talking about'?

Clearly Microsoft has shown that they are utterly clueless and incompetent when it comes to managing dev studios.

I mean, they closed ENSEMBLE....shuttered DIGITAL ANVIL, broke down FASA, and killed ACES.

Look at what RARE has become under the watch of Microsoft....poor Rare....they were so elite, and now they are just a poor shell of themselves.

Bungie, Microsoft's best studio, apparently not happy with Microsoft, or at least not happy enough to stay....they jumped on the first thing smoking ASAP....Good for them at this point.

 

Microsoft's ineptitude and lack of management skills with developer studios is pretty clear at this point.  I fear for Twisted Pixel because they are a small, yet creative dev house, who stand to potentially get destoyed by Microsoft's mismanagement.  I certainly don't want that.



@persistantthug

Based on your comments it is obvious you haven't put nearly enough thought into your point of view. On the whole it seems that Microsoft knows what it is doing, and has done a remarkable job. Whether you like what they decided to do in a given situation. That doesn't mean that they were incompetent at their job. Shall we critique every one of the studios you mentioned.

ACES- You seriously have issue with how Microsoft handled this studio. They managed this studio for two decades while being profitable, and producing a viable product. That said I can see why Microsoft decided to close down this studio. While it may be close to your heart flight simulators are not necessarily a product line that needs to be perpetuated. Eventually you reach a maximum potential, and from there you can only go downward. To be blunt they didn't need these games in their portfolio, and since the software had nowhere left to go the future prospect for this line wasn't all that grand. You can only take simulations so far. Competition would only stiffen over time as differentiation would become less possible.

Digital Anvil- Once again seriously you have a problem with Microsoft when it comes to this one. They saved this studio from a early demise. They took a gamble on a studio acquisition, and no they didn't shutter the studio they opted to redeploy the staff to Microsoft Game Studios. Discarding a name doesn't mean that the asset was really put to poor use. These people are still working on games for Microsoft. They just aren't called Digital Anvil now.

Ensemble- Are you really going to argue that Microsoft needs a studio developing Real Time Strategy games. Can we be real about this. Eight years was a good run, but the market changes over time, and so does the situation. In the end the studio wasn't necessary even if it was profitable. Microsoft saw better prospects elsewhere, and to be honest about the whole situation. I cannot imagine any manufacturer opting to keep a studio that specialized in the making of these games. This studio wasn't forwarding the agenda. The budget allocated to this studio at that time would, and probably was spent to greater effect.

FASA- What you know another studio that specialized in making niche titles, and was the product of a acquisition, and subsequent sell off. The studio was more of a accidental byproduct. To be honest I was actually shocked that Microsoft actually moved forward with game development. Kind of agree with you here this was a poor move on their part. They ought to have committed heavily, or not committed at all. Instead the studio kind of meandered.

Rare- I have said it before, and I will say it again. Rare was in rough shape when Microsoft acquired the developer. They were quite simply overworked, over committed, and overweight. The developer was pushed to the breaking point. I am kind of tired of people blaming Microsoft for picking up the pieces, because they had the sense to see long term prospects, and a immediate return. Microsoft needed franchises, and they needed a studio with a solid pedigree. You can argue that they overpaid, but it isn't a fair argument that they were responsible for the collapse. That said it appears that Microsoft is doing a good job of returning the developer to health. I think you have to wait till next generation to see if Rare can get its groove back. It may not be great, but it is indeed recovering.


Bungie- You have to be fucking kidding me with this one right. Microsoft did nothing less then a brilliant job with this studio. Together they created perhaps the biggest franchise of this generation worth billions of dollars. Put the studio firmly on the map, and created a loyal legion of fans. Bungie left better then it came in, and Microsoft being reasonable enough to let them leave should tell you something about how well they treat their developers. It is pretty damning proof that you are wrong actually.

I am not saying that Microsoft is flawless. They make mistakes, but to imply that they only make mistakes is simply wrong. You act as if Nintendo and Sony do not have their share of failures. I assure you they do. Should we list off all the studios that Sony has closed and gutted. Perhaps list off all the exclusive third party games that pushed the developers into bankruptcy. The same holds true for Nintendo. Shall we list off all of peripherals that Nintendo in the end abandoned instantly, or perhaps point out some failed consoles.

To be honest Microsoft isn't doing a better or worse job then anyone else.



Persistantthug said:
yo_john117 said:
Persistantthug said:

With Microsoft's trainwreck history with developer studios....

 

I'm not sure if this is a good or a bad thing.

Umm what are you talking about?


What do you mean 'what are you talking about'?

Clearly Microsoft has shown that they are utterly clueless and incompetent when it comes to managing dev studios.

I mean, they closed ENSEMBLE....shuttered DIGITAL ANVIL, broke down FASA, and killed ACES.

Look at what RARE has become under the watch of Microsoft....poor Rare....they were so elite, and now they are just a poor shell of themselves.

Bungie, Microsoft's best studio, apparently not happy with Microsoft, or at least not happy enough to stay....they jumped on the first thing smoking ASAP....Good for them at this point.

 

Microsoft's ineptitude and lack of management skills with developer studios is pretty clear at this point.  I fear for Twisted Pixel because they are a small, yet creative dev house, who stand to potentially get destoyed by Microsoft's mismanagement.  I certainly don't want that.

Look at the post above this one.



Dodece said:
@persistantthug

Based on your comments it is obvious you haven't put nearly enough thought into your point of view. On the whole it seems that Microsoft knows what it is doing, and has done a remarkable job. Whether you like what they decided to do in a given situation. That doesn't mean that they were incompetent at their job. Shall we critique every one of the studios you mentioned.

ACES- You seriously have issue with how Microsoft handled this studio. They managed this studio for two decades while being profitable, and producing a viable product. That said I can see why Microsoft decided to close down this studio. While it may be close to your heart flight simulators are not necessarily a product line that needs to be perpetuated. Eventually you reach a maximum potential, and from there you can only go downward. To be blunt they didn't need these games in their portfolio, and since the software had nowhere left to go the future prospect for this line wasn't all that grand. You can only take simulations so far. Competition would only stiffen over time as differentiation would become less possible.

Digital Anvil- Once again seriously you have a problem with Microsoft when it comes to this one. They saved this studio from a early demise. They took a gamble on a studio acquisition, and no they didn't shutter the studio they opted to redeploy the staff to Microsoft Game Studios. Discarding a name doesn't mean that the asset was really put to poor use. These people are still working on games for Microsoft. They just aren't called Digital Anvil now.

Ensemble- Are you really going to argue that Microsoft needs a studio developing Real Time Strategy games. Can we be real about this. Eight years was a good run, but the market changes over time, and so does the situation. In the end the studio wasn't necessary even if it was profitable. Microsoft saw better prospects elsewhere, and to be honest about the whole situation. I cannot imagine any manufacturer opting to keep a studio that specialized in the making of these games. This studio wasn't forwarding the agenda. The budget allocated to this studio at that time would, and probably was spent to greater effect.

FASA- What you know another studio that specialized in making niche titles, and was the product of a acquisition, and subsequent sell off. The studio was more of a accidental byproduct. To be honest I was actually shocked that Microsoft actually moved forward with game development. Kind of agree with you here this was a poor move on their part. They ought to have committed heavily, or not committed at all. Instead the studio kind of meandered.

Rare- I have said it before, and I will say it again. Rare was in rough shape when Microsoft acquired the developer. They were quite simply overworked, over committed, and overweight. The developer was pushed to the breaking point. I am kind of tired of people blaming Microsoft for picking up the pieces, because they had the sense to see long term prospects, and a immediate return. Microsoft needed franchises, and they needed a studio with a solid pedigree. You can argue that they overpaid, but it isn't a fair argument that they were responsible for the collapse. That said it appears that Microsoft is doing a good job of returning the developer to health. I think you have to wait till next generation to see if Rare can get its groove back. It may not be great, but it is indeed recovering.


Bungie- You have to be fucking kidding me with this one right. Microsoft did nothing less then a brilliant job with this studio. Together they created perhaps the biggest franchise of this generation worth billions of dollars. Put the studio firmly on the map, and created a loyal legion of fans. Bungie left better then it came in, and Microsoft being reasonable enough to let them leave should tell you something about how well they treat their developers. It is pretty damning proof that you are wrong actually.

I am not saying that Microsoft is flawless. They make mistakes, but to imply that they only make mistakes is simply wrong. You act as if Nintendo and Sony do not have their share of failures. I assure you they do. Should we list off all the studios that Sony has closed and gutted. Perhaps list off all the exclusive third party games that pushed the developers into bankruptcy. The same holds true for Nintendo. Shall we list off all of peripherals that Nintendo in the end abandoned instantly, or perhaps point out some failed consoles.

To be honest Microsoft isn't doing a better or worse job then anyone else.

 

Wow....You pretty much made an excuse for every single one of Microsoft's incompetent moves.  Ensemble, FASA, Digital Anvil, and Aces didn't have to be shut.

 

You know what good, competent and creative management would have done, Especially with RARE?  They would have nurtured them back to health.  If Microsoft was any good, they would have guided them and stimulated their creative muscles.  But as they say, the blind can't lead the blind.  How can Microsoft foster and stimulate this creativity when they themselves are void of this as a company in general.

Bungie made the best move possible, they got the heck away.  And for more comedy....they left Microsoft for Activision.   Almost as if to say, it's better to get Activision Cooties than live with Microsoft Cooties.  LOL  At least the Activision Cooties provide an avenue of creative vision instead of automaton, same ol same ol....apparently.  lol

When Naughty Dog is caught leaving Sony or HAL Laboratory or even Retro defecting from Nintendo, make sure I get a PM.  But we both know that will never happen.   Only with Microsoft.

 

Bottom line,  1 or 2 of those excuses you made could have been acceptable, maybe.  Maybe somehow, maybe even 3, but all of them?  No, not a chance.  A clear pattern has been established, and that clear pattern shows that Microsoft is utterly an incompetent dev studio manager.

Being a good manager, especially one that must manage artistically driven talent takes a particular skill....a particular skill Microsoft evidently lacks.   I just hope Twisted Pixel isn't burned by Microsoft's ineptitude, that would be even more sad.



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Persistantthug said:
Dodece said:
@persistantthug

Based on your comments it is obvious you haven't put nearly enough thought into your point of view. On the whole it seems that Microsoft knows what it is doing, and has done a remarkable job. Whether you like what they decided to do in a given situation. That doesn't mean that they were incompetent at their job. Shall we critique every one of the studios you mentioned.

ACES- You seriously have issue with how Microsoft handled this studio. They managed this studio for two decades while being profitable, and producing a viable product. That said I can see why Microsoft decided to close down this studio. While it may be close to your heart flight simulators are not necessarily a product line that needs to be perpetuated. Eventually you reach a maximum potential, and from there you can only go downward. To be blunt they didn't need these games in their portfolio, and since the software had nowhere left to go the future prospect for this line wasn't all that grand. You can only take simulations so far. Competition would only stiffen over time as differentiation would become less possible.

Digital Anvil- Once again seriously you have a problem with Microsoft when it comes to this one. They saved this studio from a early demise. They took a gamble on a studio acquisition, and no they didn't shutter the studio they opted to redeploy the staff to Microsoft Game Studios. Discarding a name doesn't mean that the asset was really put to poor use. These people are still working on games for Microsoft. They just aren't called Digital Anvil now.

Ensemble- Are you really going to argue that Microsoft needs a studio developing Real Time Strategy games. Can we be real about this. Eight years was a good run, but the market changes over time, and so does the situation. In the end the studio wasn't necessary even if it was profitable. Microsoft saw better prospects elsewhere, and to be honest about the whole situation. I cannot imagine any manufacturer opting to keep a studio that specialized in the making of these games. This studio wasn't forwarding the agenda. The budget allocated to this studio at that time would, and probably was spent to greater effect.

FASA- What you know another studio that specialized in making niche titles, and was the product of a acquisition, and subsequent sell off. The studio was more of a accidental byproduct. To be honest I was actually shocked that Microsoft actually moved forward with game development. Kind of agree with you here this was a poor move on their part. They ought to have committed heavily, or not committed at all. Instead the studio kind of meandered.

Rare- I have said it before, and I will say it again. Rare was in rough shape when Microsoft acquired the developer. They were quite simply overworked, over committed, and overweight. The developer was pushed to the breaking point. I am kind of tired of people blaming Microsoft for picking up the pieces, because they had the sense to see long term prospects, and a immediate return. Microsoft needed franchises, and they needed a studio with a solid pedigree. You can argue that they overpaid, but it isn't a fair argument that they were responsible for the collapse. That said it appears that Microsoft is doing a good job of returning the developer to health. I think you have to wait till next generation to see if Rare can get its groove back. It may not be great, but it is indeed recovering.


Bungie- You have to be fucking kidding me with this one right. Microsoft did nothing less then a brilliant job with this studio. Together they created perhaps the biggest franchise of this generation worth billions of dollars. Put the studio firmly on the map, and created a loyal legion of fans. Bungie left better then it came in, and Microsoft being reasonable enough to let them leave should tell you something about how well they treat their developers. It is pretty damning proof that you are wrong actually.

I am not saying that Microsoft is flawless. They make mistakes, but to imply that they only make mistakes is simply wrong. You act as if Nintendo and Sony do not have their share of failures. I assure you they do. Should we list off all the studios that Sony has closed and gutted. Perhaps list off all the exclusive third party games that pushed the developers into bankruptcy. The same holds true for Nintendo. Shall we list off all of peripherals that Nintendo in the end abandoned instantly, or perhaps point out some failed consoles.

To be honest Microsoft isn't doing a better or worse job then anyone else.

 

Wow....You pretty much made an excuse for every single one of Microsoft's incompetent moves.  Ensemble, FASA, Digital Anvil, and Aces didn't have to be shut.

 

You know what good, competent and creative management would have done, Especially with RARE?  They would have nurtured them back to health.  If Microsoft was any good, they would have guided them and stimulated their creative muscles.  But as they say, the blind can't lead the blind.  How can Microsoft foster and stimulate this creativity when they themselves are void of this as a company in general.

Bungie made the best move possible, they got the heck away.  And for more comedy....they left Microsoft for Activision.   Almost as if to say, it's better to get Activision Cooties than live with Microsoft Cooties.  LOL  At least the Activision Cooties provide an avenue of creative vision instead of automaton, same ol same ol....apparently.  lol

When Naughty Dog is caught leaving Sony or HAL Laboratory or even Retro defecting from Nintendo, make sure I get a PM.  But we both know that will never happen.   Only with Microsoft.

 

Bottom line,  1 or 2 of those excuses you made could have been acceptable, maybe.  Maybe somehow, maybe even 3, but all of them?  No, not a chance.  A clear pattern has been established, and that clear pattern shows that Microsoft is utterly an incompetent dev studio manager.

Being a good manager, especially one that must manage artistically driven talent takes a particular skill....a particular skill Microsoft evidently lacks.   I just hope Twisted Pixel isn't burned by Microsoft's ineptitude, that would be even more sad.

Bungie left MS not because they were a terrible parent company, but because MS wanted them to continue to do Halo games and Bungie wanted to move onto something else. Do you really believe Halo would be as popular if Sony would have bought them or Nintendo? I highly doubt Bungie's next game will even come close to the popularity of Halo. 

MS dropped a lot of those studios because the games they made didn't sell or stopped selling, simple as that. A lot of those studios buried themselves. Sony would never drop Naughty dog just like MS will never drop Turn 10 because their games sell. You also need to remember last generation was MS first attempt at console gaming so they were picking up as many studios as possible to gain any foothold on the market. Now that they're more well known they wont be having those same issues. I'm sure Sony and Nintendo did the same thing when they first joined the gaming industry.

Twisted Pixal will be fine and more than likely become a lot more established, now that they have MS to support them with a higher budget and more developers.  

If MS was smart they would bring back some of those lost IP's and revive them with a more esablished developers.



smroadkill15 said:

Bungie left MS not because they were a terrible parent company, but because MS wanted them to continue to do Halo games and Bungie wanted to move onto something else. Do you really believe Halo would be as popular if Sony would have bought them or Nintendo? I highly doubt Bungie's next game will even come close to the popularity of Halo. 

MS dropped a lot of those studios because the games they made didn't sell or stopped selling, simple as that. A lot of those studios buried themselves. Sony would never drop Naughty dog just like MS will never drop Turn 10 because their games sell. You also need to remember last generation was MS first attempt at console gaming so they were picking up as many studios as possible to gain any foothold on the market. Now that they're more well known they wont be having those same issues. I'm sure Sony and Nintendo did the same thing when they first joined the gaming industry.

Twisted Pixal will be fine and more than likely become a lot more established, now that they have MS to support them with a higher budget and more developers.  

If MS was smart they would bring back some of those lost IP's and revive them with a more esablished developers.


-Yes, Bungie left because Microsoft wanted an AUTOMATON developer to keep pumping out Halo's...I know.  This was always my point. 

-Microsoft messed up all those good studios that made good games because they don't sell.  This also makes MS a crappy no talent hack.

 

Microsoft is void of creativity, and Bungie was smart enough to get the hell outta town.   Again, Microsoft is a terrible dev studio manager.  You seem to already have the pieces, you just hadn't yet put them together yet.



Persistantthug said:
smroadkill15 said:

Bungie left MS not because they were a terrible parent company, but because MS wanted them to continue to do Halo games and Bungie wanted to move onto something else. Do you really believe Halo would be as popular if Sony would have bought them or Nintendo? I highly doubt Bungie's next game will even come close to the popularity of Halo. 

MS dropped a lot of those studios because the games they made didn't sell or stopped selling, simple as that. A lot of those studios buried themselves. Sony would never drop Naughty dog just like MS will never drop Turn 10 because their games sell. You also need to remember last generation was MS first attempt at console gaming so they were picking up as many studios as possible to gain any foothold on the market. Now that they're more well known they wont be having those same issues. I'm sure Sony and Nintendo did the same thing when they first joined the gaming industry.

Twisted Pixal will be fine and more than likely become a lot more established, now that they have MS to support them with a higher budget and more developers.  

If MS was smart they would bring back some of those lost IP's and revive them with a more esablished developers.


-Yes, Bungie left because Microsoft wanted an AUTOMATON developer to keep pumping out Halo's...I know.  This was always my point. 

-Microsoft messed up all those good studios that made good games because they don't sell.  This also makes MS a crappy no talent hack.

 

Microsoft is void of creativity, and Bungie was smart enough to get the hell outta town.   Again, Microsoft is a terrible dev studio manager.  You seem to already have the pieces, you just hadn't yet put them together yet.

What does Polyphony Digital make besides GT?



daroamer said:

What does Polyphony Digital make besides GT?

 

Polyphony Digital primarily makes the Gran Turismo series. 

However in 2006 PD put out a Motorcycle racing game called TOURIST TROPHY for the PS2.

Also, back during the PS1 days, after Gran Turismo 1, they released a 3D rail shooter called OMEGA BOOST.   Not sure if you were gaming then or not or if you've ever played or heard of it, but I remember it....it was pretty good.

 

But yeah, Sony does allow their developer studios latitude for creativity.  If there's one thing Sony is pretty much beyond reproach, it's in how they deal with their developers.  I mean, they have decades worth of experience in dealing with artists...even the stranger, more finicky ones.  Maybe Microsoft is learning from them.  I mean, at least this time they haven't tried to uproot TWISTED PIXEL from their Austin Texas home....not yet at least....not yet. lol  That at least shows some potential sign of some positive learned behavior on the part of Microsoft.   We'll see.



the "workers" at polyphony are usually chained to their mountains of work. they used to have desks, but it was more cost efficient for them to nest in the mounds of work materials.



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

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MrBubbles Review Threads: Bill Gates, Jak II, Kingdom Hearts II, The Strangers, Sly 2, Crackdown, Zohan, Quarantine, Klungo Sssavesss Teh World, MS@E3'08, WATCHMEN(movie), Shadow of the Colossus, The Saboteur