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Do you think it is normal having firearms?

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Sorry I confused you with CB that time.



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BenKenobi88 said:
ismael said:
i have found this in google (translated from Spanish)

In USA in year 2000 11,000 homicides were registered and more than 16,000 suicides in which firearms were used. The European Union, whose population surpasses in a 25% to the one of the United States, registered that same year less than 1,300 homicides by firearm. In Japan, in that year 22 only took place..

Yes, there are more murders in the US and that's a problem. But why don't you just take the total murder count instead of the firearm murder count? You're skewing numbers, as there's obviously fewer firearms in Europe and Japan. There's plenty of knife murders in said countries though. Murder's murder, the killer will use what's available.

Perhaps guns should be abolished in the US, you've yet to prove it would change anything though. Stop acting like you're better than us.


It is a good thought, so i found out what you are asking for and i found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder#Demographics

there is an interesting picture there.

BTW, unfortunately "the [murder] rate of the United States is among the highest of developed countries, around 5.5 in 2004,[10] with rates in larger cities sometimes over 40 per 100,000." quoted from the link

 



Yeah we all know the murder rate in the US is among the highest. It doesn't give a good argument for gun abolishment though. Making everything illegal isn't always the right way.



LEFT4DEAD411.COM
Bet with disolitude: Left4Dead will have a higher Metacritic rating than Project Origin, 3 months after the second game's release.  (hasn't been 3 months but it looks like I won :-p )

BenKenobi88 said:
Yeah we all know the murder rate in the US is among the highest. It doesn't give a good argument for gun abolishment though. Making everything illegal isn't always the right way.

 

 i didn't meant anything with these data but i were just answering you, didn't you want to know it? what did you mean with:

"why don't you just take the total murder count instead of the firearm murder count? "



Well I meant you should probably use that data instead of just the firearm count...if you're going to put out data. I'm still wondering where this is going. Yeah, the culture here sucks and there's lots of stupid people killing others, but I'm not convinced that guns are the problem, and whether or not making them illegal would help either.



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And just because there are more guns does not mean there will be more violence. You should also be aware that the US has a very diverse culture with people from all nationalities, religious beliefs, and backgrounds living next to each other. People disagree, and some take it too far.

I will only state this once, as I firmly believe it. More people owning guns (responsibly) can only mean less crime as criminals are less likely to walk into a store and rob it if there is the potential that 15 people in the store have guns. Contest it if you like, but there's a quote that fits this idea to a tee:

"You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." - Yamamoto http://www.skylighters.org/quotations/quots6.html



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OnlyIsrael said:
In America it's legal to own firearms (2nd Amendment) and a basic right. You also have the right to defend yourself and your property (Castle Doctrine). If its not legal in your country then its not, but it is in mine, end of story.
Crime exists in every country irregardless of its laws regarding firearms. Firearms can be involved in violent crimes just as knives, sticks, fists and genitals can be. Criminals commit crimes, tools may or may not be involved. Is there really any point in singling one out other than for political swaggering and/or scare tactics?

BTW go talk to a law enforcement officer about what their experience has proven to them to be the leading cause of crime. The answer will come back, Drugs and/or alcohol.

Ok, so as long as something is legal, then it's perfect from an ethical/moral/ideological point of view ? Wow, interesting. So I guess laws never change in your country ?

Seriously, I agree with you : firearmes are not the origine of crime.

However, they happen to be, generaly, far more lethal than others basic weapons. Before you're able to stop someone with an uzi, he can do a LOT more casualties than someone with a knive or a baseball bat. That is, unless you run faster than a bullet... (i'm not). Firearms create "death opportunity", and that's "normal", since they don't have any other purpose.

Do you think that grenade or rocket launcher or C4 should be sold at Wallmart for self defense ? Probably not, because you think it's far too destructive and dangerous, even disproportionate. I do think the same about firearms.



Andir said:
And just because there are more guns does not mean there will be more violence. You should also be aware that the US has a very diverse culture with people from all nationalities, religious beliefs, and backgrounds living next to each other. People disagree, and some take it too far.

I will only state this once, as I firmly believe it. More people owning guns (responsibly) can only mean less crime as criminals are less likely to walk into a store and rob it if there is the potential that 15 people in the store have guns. Contest it if you like, but there's a quote that fits this idea to a tee:

"You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." - Yamamoto http://www.skylighters.org/quotations/quots6.html

Firstly, most countries are highly diverse. The US is neither exceptional nor unusual in this regard.

Secondly, the data appears to always suggests otherwise. The more weapons available the more crime, all else equal. The US gun laws are undeniably irresponsible and are fundamentally an artefact of a less civilised time.

 

 



 
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BenKenobi88 said:
Well I meant you should probably use that data instead of just the firearm count...if you're going to put out data. I'm still wondering where this is going. Yeah, the culture here sucks and there's lots of stupid people killing others, but I'm not convinced that guns are the problem, and whether or not making them illegal would help either.

I only want you to think about the posible link between firearms and crimes.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/violent_crime/murder.html#table2_9 (FBI data)

14,121 murders in 2004 - 9,326 were with firearms = 4795 murders without firearms. think about it

@Andir

i think you have named the problem, the responsability, so you have to be sure who you are selling the firearm to, because you can be selling a gun to a murderer.



ismael said:
BenKenobi88 said:
ismael said:
i have found this in google (translated from Spanish)

In USA in year 2000 11,000 homicides were registered and more than 16,000 suicides in which firearms were used. The European Union, whose population surpasses in a 25% to the one of the United States, registered that same year less than 1,300 homicides by firearm. In Japan, in that year 22 only took place..

Yes, there are more murders in the US and that's a problem. But why don't you just take the total murder count instead of the firearm murder count? You're skewing numbers, as there's obviously fewer firearms in Europe and Japan. There's plenty of knife murders in said countries though. Murder's murder, the killer will use what's available.

Perhaps guns should be abolished in the US, you've yet to prove it would change anything though. Stop acting like you're better than us.


It is a good thought, so i found out what you are asking for and i found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder#Demographics

there is an interesting picture there.

BTW, unfortunately "the [murder] rate of the United States is among the highest of developed countries, around 5.5 in 2004,[10] with rates in larger cities sometimes over 40 per 100,000." quoted from the link

 

I'm pretty sure most gun ownership is actually outside of the large cities.

Now illegal gun ownership that's a different story.