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Do you think it is normal having firearms?

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CB said:
Oh, come on, they're trained. Citizens are not.

Yet Grey Acumen and I have just been discussing training requirements for civilian gun ownership.

You really should try to come up with a better argument before you go calling people ignorant and stupid. 



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Yeah, discussing training requirement. My point is, that not everybody who carries guns IS trained. And I'm not calling anyone specifically ignorant and stupid. I'm saying it's ignorant and stupid in general that people WITHOUT training are allowed to carry guns. Any mentally unstable person can just get a gun and use it, for example.



 2008 Predictions:


Wii: 44 Million
Xbox360: 25 Million
PS3: 22 Million

DS: 90 Million
PSP: 37 Million

Yeah, but you're using this specific incident to form a blanket statement that it's ignorant to believe that anyone other than cops and soldiers should EVER be allowed to carry guns.

What the point that I and many others who are supporting gun ownership are pointing out, is that it is a right, and when handled properly, there are more benefits than harm from having as many people own guns as possible. So as a result, government should not be having blanket restrictions on all gun ownerships, but should be supporting the proper use of gun ownership.

and just in case you think you're being misunderstood, I'll point out your own words:

CB said:
It's just incredibly ignorant and stupid to let anybody carry around guns. The only ones who should be allowed to carry and use guns in my opinion are cops and soldiers. Not common people. They can think they can handle guns, but there are tons of them that just can't.

You never pointed out any distinctions in people who have training vs people who don't. and MANY people that do own guns DO know how to handle them. Far more typically it's the person who DOESN'T own a gun, but feels enough of a threat to themselves that they need to buy a gun, who doesn't know how to handle a gun.

These cases would be dramatically be reduced by having government assisted programs in training and certifying the use of citizen own firearms. Rather than restrict the gun ownership, it could instead be mandated that anyone owning a gun must go through a monthly or weekly training course to ensure that they are maintaining their firearm and are accurate in its use and their judgement of it. You think the NRA is just about seeing how big of a hole your gun can make?

 

 



Seppukuties is like LBP Lite, on crack. Play it already!

Currently wrapped up in: Half Life, Portal, and User Created Source Mods
Games I want: (Wii)Mario Kart, Okami, Bully, Conduit,  No More Heroes 2 (GC) Eternal Darkness, Killer7, (PS2) Ico, God of War1&2, Legacy of Kain: SR2&Defiance


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Tue, that, it's just that the government, and especially the government in a nation as large as the USA, will never be able to keep proper use and ownership of guns in check.



 2008 Predictions:


Wii: 44 Million
Xbox360: 25 Million
PS3: 22 Million

DS: 90 Million
PSP: 37 Million
CB said:
Tue, that, it's just that the government, and especially the government in a nation as large as the USA, will never be able to keep proper use and ownership of guns in check.

See, you're saying "to be kept in check"

Gun ownership isn't something to be kept in check. That's like saying that car owners will never be able to be kept in check, or people having sex can never be kept in check.(both of which can be dangerous and even lethal if done irresponsibly) PROPER gun ownership is something that should be SUPPORTED.



Seppukuties is like LBP Lite, on crack. Play it already!

Currently wrapped up in: Half Life, Portal, and User Created Source Mods
Games I want: (Wii)Mario Kart, Okami, Bully, Conduit,  No More Heroes 2 (GC) Eternal Darkness, Killer7, (PS2) Ico, God of War1&2, Legacy of Kain: SR2&Defiance


My Prediction: Wii will be achieve 48% market share by the end of 2008, and will achieve 50% by the end of june of 09. Prediction Failed.

<- Click to see more of her

 

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BengaBenga said:
Kasz216 said:
Actually if you take away guns... you just raise the rate of stabbing victims. Which is a much more painful way to die.

An increase in gun ownership does infact seem to lower crime.

Anti-gun lobbyists will point to high gun ownership areas as having a lot of crime. (handgun anyway.) However the reason everyone has a gun is because of the crime. If you were to drastically lower the legal gun ownership crime would increase.

The thing with legal guns is that they are legal and distinct. You can match a gun to a bullet, so it's very likely if you actually shoot someone you'll be caught. The only real problem with crimes is when it comes to illegal guns... and if you have an illegal gun, where are you going to comit a crime? An area that you know has 1 guns per 30 people, or 4 guns per 10 people?

You haven't checked the crime rates in the USA lately? Or killing rates. Of the western world the USA performs worse in both categories, and you say gun-owning lowers crime???? And the school killings were definitely not that common once it was actually hard to acuire a gun. If you make a gun a normal, accepted item. it is not strange that it will be used more often then elsewhere.

Here in Europe hardly anyone owns a gun, and I'm glad about it.

That is a false comparaison because the USA has a differnt culture then other areas of the world. Any class in sociological or psychological statistics would tell you that you need to study areas of like culture to weed out any cultural differences.

In otherwords, parts of the USA with other parts of USA. IN THE USA, similar places with lax gun control have less violent crime then similar places with strict gun control.

The school shootings wern't caused by guns, they were caused by bad parents who couldn't tell their kids were batshit crazy.



Also, for those people complaining about 9,000 gun deaths?

There were over 16,000 drunk driving deaths in the US in 2005. I'm guessing the US isn't the only place.

So why don't we ban achohol since all it does is either kill you slow or kill you fast and has no other use?



Yep, and proud of it...

I sleep beside a 12 Gauge shot gun every night!  Lol, I also have around 20+ swords, axes, maces, & daggers in my room....I don't carry a hand gun, but many of my buddies do.

Lol...and I have a knight guarding my ps3 & 360.  See---

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x163/sorrow880/MyspaceRoom1.jpg%5B/IMG%5D" width="1" height="1">



Well, I now only have access to a PS3 & 360...Plan on buying a wii soon (lol, if I can ever find one available!) but will probably wait until some of the major RPG's come out like Dragon Quest & Tales, etc.

Anyhow, I'm so far behind in games to play that I'm not in a huge hurry (lol, haven't even gotten a chance to finish God of War II yet!) 

ismael said:
i have found this in google (translated from Spanish)

In USA in year 2000 11,000 homicides were registered and more than 16,000 suicides in which firearms were used. The European Union, whose population surpasses in a 25% to the one of the United States, registered that same year less than 1,300 homicides by firearm. In Japan, in that year 22 only took place..

Already explained. Different cultures. The only comparisons that matter are comparisons within cultures.  Anyone with any statistical training could tell you this.



Kasz216 said:
ismael said:
i have found this in google (translated from Spanish)

In USA in year 2000 11,000 homicides were registered and more than 16,000 suicides in which firearms were used. The European Union, whose population surpasses in a 25% to the one of the United States, registered that same year less than 1,300 homicides by firearm. In Japan, in that year 22 only took place..

Already explained. Different cultures. The only comparisons that matter are comparisons within cultures.  Anyone with any statistical training could tell you this.


Not only is it already explained about the different cultures, but also, does it really matter?  Dead is dead...if someone wants to kill themselves or someone else, they'll do it...It doesn't matter if they have a gun, knife, poison, strangle, baseball bat, car, or jump, or hang...dead=dead.



Well, I now only have access to a PS3 & 360...Plan on buying a wii soon (lol, if I can ever find one available!) but will probably wait until some of the major RPG's come out like Dragon Quest & Tales, etc.

Anyhow, I'm so far behind in games to play that I'm not in a huge hurry (lol, haven't even gotten a chance to finish God of War II yet!)