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Prove that evolution is what actually happened.

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wfz said:
vlad321 said:
ishiki said:
vlad321 said:

I swear, yall are so ignorant (by that I don't mean just religious people). There is an infinite amount of possibilities that could happen. Specific religions have a very well defined notion of what happened so their chances are basically one out of infinite possibilities. People who say there is no god are the same way, they are still choosing a subset of an infinite set. Believing in anything without any further evidence is just down right naive.

On the plus side, the different sides provide basically endless entertainment, and make the world go round.


I agree with this comepletely. Minus the entertainment part maybe. 

You mean you aren't entertained by little children bickering and arguing by saying "yeah... well, I heard so and so?"

*Chiming in*

 

I'm not. I'm just as irritated by blind believers as I am by the ones who kick and scream about there being no possibility of a god (or gods) existing.

Just because some very specific form of a supernatural being likely doesn't exist, doesn't mean there aren't still an infinite amount of other possible answers out there.

It's true. There's nothing out there to show we weren't shit out of something's ass after a night of tequila and its equivalent of Taco Bell. Hell, maybe it was shitting for 6 days straight?



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Aww, I got a fanclub! I think this is the third or fourth thread to link to mine because apparently it's so unethical to suggest we offer proof.

But seriously here, I've paid attention to science, I've done a LOT of research on evolution, and while I don't have the links handy (I'm currently at work and the bandwidth here sucks), I can assure you that not only does evolution happen, but we witness it every single day. New breeds are created, species mingle, new generations adapt to problems, the weak die out, and the strong survive to mate again. Denying this is honestly as ignorant as...I don't even know something so brazenly stupid to compare it to, it's that bad.

you know how, in biology class, you're told that only the strongest Elk or whatever survive (due to their horns)? yeah, selective breeding? that's a form of evolution. you know how the only bugs to survive and pass on their genes are the ones resistant to poisons? That's a form of evolution. You know how some plants are resistant to herbicides? That, too, is a form of evolution. You know how we humans get the common cold, but as we age we succumb less and less to it? That's a form of evolution. you know how, in spite of our immune systems combatting and beating each year's flu, people still get whatever new strain pops up? that's a form of evolution.

Just because the BIG changes happen gradually over many, MANY years and have no observable effect doesn't mean that we haven't observed evolution happening all around us.

To deny this is just foolish. Hell, you'd look smarter if you were a Climate Change critic, at least that skepticism has some merit to it (even though that is also almost unanimously agreed upon as a real phenomenon.)



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Won't lie, as a religious guy I think your question is way more... comical than the other thread's. Evolution is a theory, I repeat, evolution is STRICTLY a theory. A scientific theory by definition CANNOT be proven, so you asking this question goes completely against the foundation of theories and science. Science itself claims that evolution isn't and cannot be proven, so how does your question even make sense?

Even though I disagree with the other guy's thread and views, his question is still plausible because religion claims as a FACT that God exists. It makes no sense to prove something that by definition cannot be proven.



Oh look at that, you just changed the thread title. You're a sly one.



Jay520 said:
There is no proof. Just scientific theories with accompanied by data that helps support those theories. You could read up on that data and decide for yourself if you trust it or not.


Just to expand on this, science isn't about proof. "Proof" really only exists in mathematics (and even there, you have to be prepared to make a lot of assumptions before you go around proving things) and a little philosophy.

Science is about the weight of evidence. And there is an enormous weight of evidence behind evolution. It explains why we find fossils from different geological strata have distinctly different life forms. It explains how a bacterium can mutate into an antibiotic resistant superbug. We've been gathering evidence for over a century now, and the theory still holds up pretty well, though of course it's been fleshed out a lot since it was first proposed.

Honestly, we've been using our own "applied evolution" to breed animals and plants for millenia now. Why is it so hard to understand that nature runs its own breeding program?

It's really not that hard to reconcile faith and science. You just have to imagine that all of the natural laws that science uncovers were written by God. Whatever God is, it's the author of the cosmic rule book. Evolution is one of God's tools, along with gravitation, electromagnetism, thermodynamics, etc.



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its fiction, hes only in the book known as the Bible....




I won't prove that evolution is what actually happened. I'm going to explain how it works. This because lots of times people don't understand it, or just have a wrong idea of it.

So, there are several points:

1- Each individual is different to the rest of the individual of its species/population (i.e. it has a different phenotype).

2- Some of this differences are hereditable.

3- Not all of the individuals from a population have the same survival probabilities, therefore, not all individuals survive to have progeny.

4- That progeny has the phenotype of their parents.

5- If a phenotype survives AND has more progeny (fitness), in a time, the other phenotype is going to dissapear.

 

Example, I'm working with a species of fish. I'm working woth 6 populations, 3 live in some pools with high density of predators, 3 live in pools with low density. I'm observing some differences in the pheotype. For example, in sites with predation  the fishes reach sexual maturity earlier, have bigger broods, with lots more embryos (are livebearers), more broods. Where sites with no predation, have smaller broods.

¿Why? because in the predation sites, the late bloomers are eaten before they have kids. Fishes must mature early and have as much progeny as they can, before they die.

If this fishes keep being in separate pools, some othe differences may appear, until they can no longer interbrees and they'll be differente species.

There are a lot of examples of evolution. Although I know fellow biologist who believe in evolution and in God. You can too... it's all about finding a balance.



God and evolution are not incompatible.



I honestly do find it hilarious that I make a thread saying "Hey, if the believers want to continue to manipulate science and society based on the assumption that God exists, they should be obligated to prove it" has resulted in hundreds of posts about how insensitive I am, how I'm supposedly flamebaiting (trust me, if I was trying to incite a riot, the thread would have been closed down by the first time a mod saw it and I'd probably be fired...I'm VERY good at eliciting powerful reactions if I want to), how ignorant I supposedly am, and dozens of faulty-logic-arguments and redirects (usually going "well prove science is real!"), and multiple threads made to 'combat' my own, by asking the same thing that I did in a different direction.

The funny thing is, there IS a lot of supporting evidence for Evolution. there IS a lot of supporting evidence for climate change. There IS a lot of practically conclusive evidence that the world is more than 6000 years old and dinosaurs existed. there is NO evidence of a god. Philosophy is not evidence, it's philosophy. Philisophy is all about maybes and what-ifs, it's great to discuss and can be truly enlightening, but it's just a lot of ideas, that is not proof in any way, it's not even supporting evidence, it's heresay.

Hell, I can SAY that I saw god, I may even have truly thought I did, but for all I know it could have been a hallucination, I could be mentally handicapped. People hear voices all the time, we put them in institutions.

A long time ago, Darwin had his THEORY of evolution, an IDEA that he decided to put to the test. He had careful observation, he did a lot of studying, and he didn't let the fact that he DID believe in God get in the way. he had a theory, he tested it, he came with tangible results. Since then the theory of evolution has become much more intricate and we know a lot more about the process, but there ARE still things we don't know, that's the point of SCIENCE, to FIND OUT. just because there's a missing link doesn't mean that there is no link, it just means we haven't found it yet. we shouldn't ASSUME that God is responsible just because we don't know.

Again, Evolution is a readily observed phenomenon, denying this would be like denying Gravity. Just because we don't fully understand it doesn't make it magic.



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Cirio said:
Won't lie, as a religious guy I think your question is way more... comical than the other thread's. Evolution is a theory, I repeat, evolution is STRICTLY a theory. A scientific theory by definition CANNOT be proven, so you asking this question goes completely against the foundation of theories and science. Science itself claims that evolution isn't and cannot be proven, so how does your question even make sense?

Even though I disagree with the other guy's thread and views, his question is still plausible because religion claims as a FACT that God exists. It makes no sense to prove something that by definition cannot be proven.

Gross, terrible misrepresentation of what a scientific theory is. A scientific theory is basically an idea in science that has so much evidence, so much predictive power, and a ridiculously high degree of accuracy, that's deemed worthly of reaching the level of "theory" in science. Theory does not have the same definition in science as it does in every say language, just google scientific theory instead of theory if you want the same definition/explanation of what a theory is. 

Also, stating that evolution cannot be proven is just ignorance. We see evolution happen every day, we've observed speciation, we've created and modified existing bacteria and viruses through mutation. We KNOW evolution is a fact. It's not even a freakin' debate among respectable scientists. The only thing debated in evolution is common ancesntry, and this is overwhelmingly religious groups/people questioning, most who have absolutely no understanding of evolution, or simply choose to be ignorant on the subject. 

So in all, his question does make sense, your concept of what a theory and what evolution is, on the other hand, does not. I'm pretty sure all man-made gods are fake, and if there is a god, it's almost certainly going to be a god no one has ever thought of or even met.