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Prove that God exists

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Runa216 Said:

oh I believe that may very well have happened, but that's not proof in the slightest.  If you had never believed in god and weren't praying at the time, would you think that staying dry was some divine intervention, or just a weird coincidence?  If not for your predisposition to believe that the result was an act of god (or for that matter, you already believing in God), I don't think for a second you'd think "Wait, this is weird, must have been something out there doing that for me."  

There's no evidence to support what happened to you was an act of god.  You wanted to believe it was, so when something weird happened you attributed it to god.  It's a simple but common logical fallacy that's seen often in the religious, it's called "confirmation Bias."  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

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As a man of science, I have never seen the physical and chemical properties of water change to such an extent that a man can climb out of a lake, fully clothed in streetwear, emerging perfectly dry.  As a philosopher, I know logic.  I admitted that it wasn't proof, or even evidence in the very first two lines I typed, did I not?  You have established your system for defining reality and measuring the world, something outside of your acceptable parameters will be rejected.  Happens all the time.  Conformational bias can work both ways; skepticism can rationalize and deny things that a person truly experiences.  All I have is my own personal testimony and I know it to be true.  But I'll never be able to prove it, nor will anyone else for that matter.  Thus preserving your definition of reality.



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Jay520 said:
Umos-Cmos said:
Troll_Whisperer said:
Umos-Cmos said:
Troll_Whisperer said:
Umos-Cmos said:

To the OP I would simply ask you to explain to me what salt tastes like.  Assuming I've never tasted something so common as salt, how would you explain to me how it tastes?

It doesn't work like that... salt is something tangible, if never tasted it, you taste it. If it exists you try it. If God exists...

 

If you had never tasted or seen salt or met anyone who had tasted or seen salt or had no salt at all anywhere on Earth to prove it's existence would you believe in this so called 'salt'?

God does exist, prove him.  Just like you would prove what salt tastes like or if you wanted to see if a seed truly sprouts into a plant.  It's not that complicated.  I've experienced the power of God in my life.  I have a lifes worth of experience that you cannot disprove.  I know he exists.  How is this different from the parameters I set for salt?  Surely you could describe something so common as salt.

Because everyone can experience salt but not everyone can experience God...

You're feeling is not backed up by anything and millions of people don't feel the same way. I could describe salt with a lot of proof, I could actually bring it. You're not proving anything.

I never felt anything like God in my life, no one in my family is religious. If you had never been taught about it would you have felt it?

Not that many people are religious in Europe. So it's not just a matter of describing, you need more. I could make up and describe anything I please.

False.  Everyone CAN experience God.  Do you really want to know how or are you just trolling me?  I'd be glad to tell you how if you'd like.  The fact that it is impossible to describe what salt tastes like to someone that has never tried it illustrates my point.  Unless you try it yourself, you cannont really know.  In this same way, I have put God to the test and proved him.  He has made himself evident to me.  It's all the evidence I need.  If you have a true desire to know God he has provided a way for you to get to know him.



I'm curious. How has God proved his existence in your life?

This simple answer is that I have proved him.  I started with a sincere desire to know God.  From there I read from his holy scriptures and studied to learn more of him.  The scriptures tell us that if we lack wisdom to ask of God.  I did just that, through prayer.  I asked to know if what I was reading and learning was true.  The scriptures tell us how we can know the truth of all things.  Through the power of the Holy Ghost.  The Holy Ghost speaks to our minds and hearts in a still, small voice and causes our hearts to burn within us.  When our hearts and minds agree with the question we ask of God, it is a confirmation of that truth.  The key ingredient to all of this however, is sincerity.  If you aren't sincere in your quest to know God you will not find the answers to the questions you seek.

I have done these things and through spiritual experiences that I will not share on a public forum, I know that God is real and that he loves me and wants what is best for me.  No doubt whatsoever.  The Holy Ghost can leave an indelible mark on your heart that you will not be able to deny.  I have witnessed miracles around me and also had miracles happen to me personally.  All things in my mind denote that there is a God.  The stars and planets in their orbit, the nature of life itself and the vastness of the universe.

If you sincerely want to know these things that I've spoken of you merely need to plant that desire in your heart, nourish it with the word of God and see if it grows within you.  Mans words alone will never convince you.  The feelings of the Holy Ghost will.



"Some of you are thinking that you won't fight. Others, that you can't fight. They all say that, until they're out there."
--
PIKMIN FAN CLUB MEMBER

it's relevant Runa because you're asking people to prove an abstract thought, which simply isn't possible. Knowing that going in, proof of God becomes nothing more than a fools game. I am not a spiritual person myself, I don't necessarily believe in any God... but I cannot ask someone else, who does believe, to provide me proof of their Gods existence.
Those that wrote the bible or the Koran were smart enough to understand the fundamental problem with spirituality, it cannot be stretched across a counter to be examined, or held up to the sunlight. It's a belief and there will be those of us that doubt it. Maybe, like me, you have a scientific mind that asks for more, substance is a very reassuring and necessary componant for belief, but, you won't find that in religion. Religion demands you suspend those questions of it, those proofs... and as it does so, it leaves it proponents with nothing to show the skeptics but faith. Again, that's why my first post is relevant, you cannot prove faith, only accept it for what it is and asking others to prove that God is real is no different than me asking you to prove that you'll wake up tomorrow. You can't do it, so it's better left alone.



Troll_Whisperer said:
Umos-Cmos said:
Troll_Whisperer said:
Umos-Cmos said:
Troll_Whisperer said:
Umos-Cmos said:
Troll_Whisperer said:
Umos-Cmos said:
Troll_Whisperer said:
Umos-Cmos said:

To the OP I would simply ask you to explain to me what salt tastes like.  Assuming I've never tasted something so common as salt, how would you explain to me how it tastes?

It doesn't work like that... salt is something tangible, if never tasted it, you taste it. If it exists you try it. If God exists...

 

If you had never tasted or seen salt or met anyone who had tasted or seen salt or had no salt at all anywhere on Earth to prove it's existence would you believe in this so called 'salt'?

God does exist, prove him.  Just like you would prove what salt tastes like or if you wanted to see if a seed truly sprouts into a plant.  It's not that complicated.  I've experienced the power of God in my life.  I have a lifes worth of experience that you cannot disprove.  I know he exists.  How is this different from the parameters I set for salt?  Surely you could describe something so common as salt.

Because everyone can experience salt but not everyone can experience God...

You're feeling is not backed up by anything and millions of people don't feel the same way. I could describe salt with a lot of proof, I could actually bring it. You're not proving anything.

I never felt anything like God in my life, no one in my family is religious. If you had never been taught about it would you have felt it?

Not that many people are religious in Europe. So it's not just a matter of describing, you need more. I could make up and describe anything I please.

False.  Everyone CAN experience God.  Do you really want to know how or are you just trolling me?  I'd be glad to tell you how if you'd like.  The fact that it is impossible to describe what salt tastes like to someone that has never tried it illustrates my point.  Unless you try it yourself, you cannont really know.  In this same way, I have put God to the test and proved him.  He has made himself evident to me.  It's all the evidence I need.  If you have a true desire to know God he has provided a way for you to get to know him.

Not everyone can experience God. I can't and I know I never will. Same with most people around me.

According to your logic, my feeling must the truth and therefore God does NOT exist at all.

There, proven.

I'm curious as to why you don't feel like you can experience God and know who he is?

Can you experience Alá or Buddha?

If I say I believe in a three headed monkey that created the seas with tears and the earth with his dry blood, can you experience him?

Try.

I have never studied Alá or Buddha, you'd have to ask a member of one of those religions.  I know that the Christian God spoken of in the Bible exists and I know how to communicate with and know him.  I'm not sure what you are driving at though?  In answer to your question about the three headed monkey, if I had a desire to know and you provided a way to do it, I believe one could follow your directions and prove it to see if it is truth.  I asked a simple question that you did not answer, however.

A question can be answered with a question.

Simple answer: I can't experience something solely because someone tells me to.

It needs to make logical sense. My mind has to be able to accept it. And not everyone can accept that, no matter how much you instruct them.

It is not my words that will convert you.  You are correct that Man CANNOT convert someone to God.  It is a personal relationship that you develop with God himself.  People serve as witnesses of him, but ultimately you can choose to believe what you will.  One of God's greatest gifts to us is our agency.  He will not force someone to do that which he does not want to.  I'm gathering from your responses that you have no desire to truly know if there be a God.  I hope I'm not coming off as trying to convert you with my words.  I am simply offering a few simple steps you can take if you really have the desire to know.  If you don't have that sincere desire, then our conversation must end and we will agree to just be friends with good gaming in common. (-:



"Some of you are thinking that you won't fight. Others, that you can't fight. They all say that, until they're out there."
--
PIKMIN FAN CLUB MEMBER

Umos-Cmos said:
Jay520 said:
Umos-Cmos said:
Troll_Whisperer said:
Umos-Cmos said:
Troll_Whisperer said:
Umos-Cmos said:

To the OP I would simply ask you to explain to me what salt tastes like.  Assuming I've never tasted something so common as salt, how would you explain to me how it tastes?

It doesn't work like that... salt is something tangible, if never tasted it, you taste it. If it exists you try it. If God exists...

 

If you had never tasted or seen salt or met anyone who had tasted or seen salt or had no salt at all anywhere on Earth to prove it's existence would you believe in this so called 'salt'?

God does exist, prove him.  Just like you would prove what salt tastes like or if you wanted to see if a seed truly sprouts into a plant.  It's not that complicated.  I've experienced the power of God in my life.  I have a lifes worth of experience that you cannot disprove.  I know he exists.  How is this different from the parameters I set for salt?  Surely you could describe something so common as salt.

Because everyone can experience salt but not everyone can experience God...

You're feeling is not backed up by anything and millions of people don't feel the same way. I could describe salt with a lot of proof, I could actually bring it. You're not proving anything.

I never felt anything like God in my life, no one in my family is religious. If you had never been taught about it would you have felt it?

Not that many people are religious in Europe. So it's not just a matter of describing, you need more. I could make up and describe anything I please.

False.  Everyone CAN experience God.  Do you really want to know how or are you just trolling me?  I'd be glad to tell you how if you'd like.  The fact that it is impossible to describe what salt tastes like to someone that has never tried it illustrates my point.  Unless you try it yourself, you cannont really know.  In this same way, I have put God to the test and proved him.  He has made himself evident to me.  It's all the evidence I need.  If you have a true desire to know God he has provided a way for you to get to know him.



I'm curious. How has God proved his existence in your life?

This simple answer is that I have proved him.  I started with a sincere desire to know God.  From there I read from his holy scriptures and studied to learn more of him.  The scriptures tell us that if we lack wisdom to ask of God.  I did just that, through prayer.  I asked to know if what I was reading and learning was true.  The scriptures tell us how we can know the truth of all things.  Through the power of the Holy Ghost.  The Holy Ghost speaks to our minds and hearts in a still, small voice and causes our hearts to burn within us.  When our hearts and minds agree with the question we ask of God, it is a confirmation of that truth.  The key ingredient to all of this however, is sincerity.  If you aren't sincere in your quest to know God you will not find the answers to the questions you seek.

I have done these things and through spiritual experiences that I will not share on a public forum, I know that God is real and that he loves me and wants what is best for me.  No doubt whatsoever.  The Holy Ghost can leave an indelible mark on your heart that you will not be able to deny.  I have witnessed miracles around me and also had miracles happen to me personally.  All things in my mind denote that there is a God.  The stars and planets in their orbit, the nature of life itself and the vastness of the universe.

If you sincerely want to know these things that I've spoken of you merely need to plant that desire in your heart, nourish it with the word of God and see if it grows within you.  Mans words alone will never convince you.  The feelings of the Holy Ghost will.



Wouldn't be impossible for one to have a desire for something they don't believe in. Does that mean Athiest are damned even if they try their hardest to find him.?

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crissindahouse said:
Umos-Cmos said:
crissindahouse said:
Umos-Cmos said:
 

God's DNA is a part of us.  We were created in his image, therefore we have passions and desires.  We are here to learn to master those passions and desires.  Satan is the one putting the dirty thoughts into your mind of all the bad things you want to do with said hot lady.

that sounds not nice. sounds like we are animals in a experimental station, i think i would have to go to jail if i would do that to someone...

I'm confused as to which part sounds "not nice".  We are quite the opposite of some experimental animals.  We each have the seeds of godliness within us.  He desires us to become just like him.  Not sure if you are christian or not, but this truth is stated many times in holy scripture.

not sure what would happen to me if i would breed some creature out of my dna haha or if i just would put my dna in some other creature to make my dna a part of this creature. i bet some christians would condemn me as freaking scientist wouldn't they? but it's cool that it happened to us?

Why are you referring to humans as "some creatures"?  I already explained to you that we are literally the children of heavenly parents.  A spirit and a body united form a soul.  We are the literal spiritual children of our heavenly parents just like we are physical children of our earthly parents.  It's not weird or complicated at all.



"Some of you are thinking that you won't fight. Others, that you can't fight. They all say that, until they're out there."
--
PIKMIN FAN CLUB MEMBER

Sevengen said:
it's relevant Runa because you're asking people to prove an abstract thought, which simply isn't possible. Knowing that going in, proof of God becomes nothing more than a fools game. I am not a spiritual person myself, I don't necessarily believe in any God... but I cannot ask someone else, who does believe, to provide me proof of their Gods existence.
Those that wrote the bible or the Koran were smart enough to understand the fundamental problem with spirituality, it cannot be stretched across a counter to be examined, or held up to the sunlight. It's a belief and there will be those of us that doubt it. Maybe, like me, you have a scientific mind that asks for more, substance is a very reassuring and necessary componant for belief, but, you won't find that in religion. Religion demands you suspend those questions of it, those proofs... and as it does so, it leaves it proponents with nothing to show the skeptics but faith. Again, that's why my first post is relevant, you cannot prove faith, only accept it for what it is and asking others to prove that God is real is no different than me asking you to prove that you'll wake up tomorrow. You can't do it, so it's better left alone.

While I agree you can't substantiate an abstract thought, I'm calling out those who claim that God(or zeus or whatever) is a real thing and should be treated as such. If you believe in God, or Mohammed or whatever religion you follow, I fully endorse that and I'm certainly not aiming to belittle that.  I AM, however, getting sick of those who believe shoving it in everybody else's face, pushing it as absolute, undeniable truth while failing to back it up.  

God is a concept, a human creation...but there are many who insist there really IS a higher power controlling us, a sentient, divine being that is omniscient, onminpresent, and omnipotent.  

That's the difference. 



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Umos-Cmos said:

It is not my words that will convert you.  You are correct that Man CANNOT convert someone to God.  It is a personal relationship that you develop with God himself.  People serve as witnesses of him, but ultimately you can choose to believe what you will.  One of God's greatest gifts to us is our agency.  He will not force someone to do that which he does not want to.  I'm gathering from your responses that you have no desire to truly know if there be a God.  I hope I'm not coming off as trying to convert you with my words.  I am simply offering a few simple steps you can take if you really have the desire to know.  If you don't have that sincere desire, then our conversation must end and we will agree to just be friends with good gaming in common. (-:

Well, of course I can't be converted, same as you're not gonna stop believing whatever my experience is. That's simply our upbringing.

I wasn't even arguing against God's existance, rather that you can't prove it through your personal experience and that some people can't believe in God no matter what.

So I'll accept you're proposal. ;)



No troll is too much for me to handle. I rehabilitate trolls, I train people. I am the Troll Whisperer.

might as well have some fun...

@umos Cmos...... if God's DNA is in us, would it not also be in the Angels, and Satan.... who was originally an Angel. Logically, that makes sense. So, answer me this, if God's DNA is in Satan also, wouldn't that mean that God is capable of evil?
I mean think about it. If God made the Devil and the Devil is bad, he would have had to of received that from God, especially considering the assumption that God made the Devil intentionally, thereby giving Humans a choice. So, working backwards, doesn't that mean that God himself is capable of evil...and you worship that?
or...
God made a mistake when he created the Devil, which would mean God is no more perfect than you or I... and you worship that?
either way you wanna look at, intentional or mistake on God's handiwork when he created the Devil, why would you worship a being capable of such evil or imperfection?



Jay520 said:
Umos-Cmos said:
Jay520 said:
Umos-Cmos said:
Troll_Whisperer said:
Umos-Cmos said:
Troll_Whisperer said:
Umos-Cmos said:

To the OP I would simply ask you to explain to me what salt tastes like.  Assuming I've never tasted something so common as salt, how would you explain to me how it tastes?

It doesn't work like that... salt is something tangible, if never tasted it, you taste it. If it exists you try it. If God exists...

 

If you had never tasted or seen salt or met anyone who had tasted or seen salt or had no salt at all anywhere on Earth to prove it's existence would you believe in this so called 'salt'?

God does exist, prove him.  Just like you would prove what salt tastes like or if you wanted to see if a seed truly sprouts into a plant.  It's not that complicated.  I've experienced the power of God in my life.  I have a lifes worth of experience that you cannot disprove.  I know he exists.  How is this different from the parameters I set for salt?  Surely you could describe something so common as salt.

Because everyone can experience salt but not everyone can experience God...

You're feeling is not backed up by anything and millions of people don't feel the same way. I could describe salt with a lot of proof, I could actually bring it. You're not proving anything.

I never felt anything like God in my life, no one in my family is religious. If you had never been taught about it would you have felt it?

Not that many people are religious in Europe. So it's not just a matter of describing, you need more. I could make up and describe anything I please.

False.  Everyone CAN experience God.  Do you really want to know how or are you just trolling me?  I'd be glad to tell you how if you'd like.  The fact that it is impossible to describe what salt tastes like to someone that has never tried it illustrates my point.  Unless you try it yourself, you cannont really know.  In this same way, I have put God to the test and proved him.  He has made himself evident to me.  It's all the evidence I need.  If you have a true desire to know God he has provided a way for you to get to know him.



I'm curious. How has God proved his existence in your life?

This simple answer is that I have proved him.  I started with a sincere desire to know God.  From there I read from his holy scriptures and studied to learn more of him.  The scriptures tell us that if we lack wisdom to ask of God.  I did just that, through prayer.  I asked to know if what I was reading and learning was true.  The scriptures tell us how we can know the truth of all things.  Through the power of the Holy Ghost.  The Holy Ghost speaks to our minds and hearts in a still, small voice and causes our hearts to burn within us.  When our hearts and minds agree with the question we ask of God, it is a confirmation of that truth.  The key ingredient to all of this however, is sincerity.  If you aren't sincere in your quest to know God you will not find the answers to the questions you seek.

I have done these things and through spiritual experiences that I will not share on a public forum, I know that God is real and that he loves me and wants what is best for me.  No doubt whatsoever.  The Holy Ghost can leave an indelible mark on your heart that you will not be able to deny.  I have witnessed miracles around me and also had miracles happen to me personally.  All things in my mind denote that there is a God.  The stars and planets in their orbit, the nature of life itself and the vastness of the universe.

If you sincerely want to know these things that I've spoken of you merely need to plant that desire in your heart, nourish it with the word of God and see if it grows within you.  Mans words alone will never convince you.  The feelings of the Holy Ghost will.



Wouldn't be impossible for one to have a desire for something they don't believe in. Does that mean Athiest are damned even if they try their hardest to find him.?

I absolutely agree with you on that.  One cannot truly believe unless he has had the answer I spoke of in my post above.  Therefore an Atheist does not believe initially.  If he is humble and sincere, through the power of the Holy Ghost the answer to his question will be revealed.  An Atheist would simply kneel down and pray to God with sincerity of heart to know if he truly exists.  One must ask with a broken heart and a contrite spirit in order to receive their answer.  Some do not want to know if there is a God.  That is their choice and I respect that.  God knows the true desires of our heart.  God does not toy with us.  He has given us commandments and through obedience to those commandments there are promised blessings.  I receive those blessings in my own life.

You see, if you wanted to conduct a scientific experiment to see if a seed can grow into a plant, you would need to plant the seed in good soil first.  Then you would have to nourish it with water and sunlight.  Learning the Gospel of Jesus Christ is no different.  You must test this experiment in your heart to see if it yields good fruit.  Hopefully that makes sense.



"Some of you are thinking that you won't fight. Others, that you can't fight. They all say that, until they're out there."
--
PIKMIN FAN CLUB MEMBER