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Forums - Politics Discussion - Why doesn't the world recognize Canada's military contributions?

This thread reminds me of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcH12g9P25c



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TRios_Zen said:
IseeLight said:
TRios_Zen said:
IseeLight said:
 

That's just troops and armorments it has nothing to do with the overall effectiveness of the military, the USA lost to vietnam, they had far more military strength and still lost badly, the USA has sucked in every major battle they have been in despite having the advantage, so again look at military history and educate yourself. And the whole USA fighting for freedom is such a joke, they didn't enter the world wars until years after they began and they invade thrid world countries and bomb things for no good reason most of the time too. They take heavy losses despite having a massive advantage in military strength and their military spending and sheer stupidity is the reason the world is on the verge of ecnomical collapse. People who dislike the USA dislike it for very good reason.

Your revisionist history is laughable, and I'm tempted to say that you are just posting flamebait material to get a rise out of people.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though and say: the reasons behind any large scale conflict, by any sovereign nation, especially one ruled by a democratic government are convuluted and influenced by the socio-political climate of the time.  For example, at the begining of WWII, America was undergoing an isolationist period.  Her people in general did not want to involve themselves in wars outside her borders; yet FDR still worked within the confines of that feeling to provide supplies for her Allies at the onset of the War.  The bombing of Pearl Harbor simply motivated her people to support the war they had now been thrust upon and America basically went balls deep after that.

Whats funny about your post is that you decry America for NOT getting involved in WWII, then say she gets TOO involved "for no good reason" in later wars...who should make the decision to get involved then I wonder?  You??

HAHA, now that I think about it, and re-reading your statement I'm pretty sure you just have an anti-American agenda you want to push - how original!  Have fun with that.

You made a mistake, USA didn't provide the Allies with supplies, they sold them to the allies, and I'm not being hypocritical you aren't being specific, why did USA attack vietnam, or the other 3rd world countries lately? Why are american bombs blowing up stuff that's worth less then the bombs? USA didn't fight for freedom when people were fighting for freedom they stayed on the side-lines and when USA was at the head of a war they are attacking third world countries that they have very little if any buisness being involved with, and if you guys didn't want to be involved in wars outside your borders why are you attacking 3rd world countries? And what do you mean revistnist history? Do you believe USA won the vietnam war? Again educate yourself, I don't need an agenda to make the USA look bad, stating facts does that.

Sadly, you are very short in the fact department.   For example, I did not state that the US provided anything for free, you assumed that, so the mistake is your own.

Further, if you don't know why the US got involved in the Vietnam War, it is you who needs further education as that information is readily available (hint it had to do with American belief that a communist "red-tide" would occur if South Korea fell to the North). The METHODS of said war and what ultimately led to the US failure in achieving a strategic victory is more politcal then anything else.  This period of time is a low point in US history - I will not shy from that - but to generalize because of that, that the US Armed Forces are garbage, is pure ignorance.

Finally you ask why the US attacks third world countries: I can only assume you are talking about thier involvement in Afghanistan, Iraq (and recent operations in Pakistan).  I think their motives have been fairly clear - and were all initiated post the attack on the World Trade center.  You do not have to agree with those, however, I respect your right to your own opinion.  Your opinion however, is just that, a political difference of opinion, not fact.

Honestly, I feel like I'm giving a class here.  I'm educating you, not myself; I wonder, is it helping any?

I know exactly why america attacked vietnam, and I know it had nothing to do with freedom. I was not aware that politics enables the enemy steals your weapons and kills your troops with them, and again look at some battles in the world wars, you know about pearl harbor right? How effective was the USA's military then? As for the attack on the world trade center I have yet to see any proof anyone they are blowing up had anything to do with it, they had ulterior motives for doing what they did and they used the attack on the world trade center as an excuse, thats the kind of country the USA is, and not all of the 3rd countries they attacked were after the attack on world trade center either, so again educate yourself.



IseeLight said:

I know exactly why america attacked vietnam, and I know it had nothing to do with freedom. I was not aware that politics enables the enemy steals your weapons and kills your troops with them, and again look at some battles in the world wars, you know about pearl harbor right? How effective was the USA's military then? As for the attack on the world trade center I have yet to see any proof anyone they are blowing up had anything to do with it, they had ulterior motives for doing what they did and they used the attack on the world trade center as an excuse, thats the kind of country the USA is, and not all of the 3rd countries they attacked were after the attack on world trade center either, so again educate yourself.

OH, you're one of those.  HAHA, you really are entertaining - thanks for the laugh!

@op sorry we strayed so far off topic.



Well, for the same reason all alien invasions arrive first at that annoying country. Its a shame that the efforts you name aren't more widely know to the average person. Don't worry tho, the people that don't depend on hollywood for thinking, recognize the role of Canada.

Personally, I do like the fact that you guys didn't go to Irak.



Garnett said:
Let me review the Allied countries of WW2, and what they did..

America- Did nothing until 1941 when Japan bombed Pearl harbor, Fought Japan until 1945, Used the first nuclear bomb, Main reason for D-Day, Backbone behind the Allies.

Britain- First ones to declare war on Hitler in 39, Battle of Britain, Helped with the Japanese a little bit in the Pacific, Helped in the D-day landings.

Russia- Defeated the Germans, Broke the German army in half, Made the Japanese surrender.

Canada- Helped with the D-day landings, ???

Please fill me in if im missing anything.


Umm man Canada is the reason Britian didn't fall and was responsable for Liberating the Netherlands and a huge help in liberating Italy. Canada was one of the first world powers to declare war on Germany following Britian and France on September 10, 1939. They sent troops and ships and supplies immediatly to the front.

Fact is the Canadians were fighting from pretty much day one to keep the Brits and French alive. Once France fell and Britian was surrounded on all sides who kept Britian alive? Not the American's, the Canadian's sent naval ships and hundreds of thousands of troops, ships, aircraft to Britian to defend it. Also realize alot of the RAF was trained in Canada and the fighters were supplied largely from Canada. Ammunition, food and other supplies were brought in from Canada to keep Britian alive. Now granted the British Navy was nothing to laugh at without Canada's support Britian's supply line would have been cut.

So without Canada you'd have no RAF, no constant supplies? the German fleet would have surrounded Britian entirely. The Germans would have suffocated Britian with a siege. Then if Germany wanted they could invade or simply seige Britian into surrender. None of the other Commonwealth countries could have saved Britian without Canada.

Then hypothetically when the US finally joins in (If they would have at all), its to late. Now would the US have let Britian fall? I don't know but they sat on their asses well most of europe was taken they didn't seem to mind France falling.  Also I seem to remember the US didn't join the allies until Hitler declared war on America in 1941. Source , So America wasn't going to lift a finger to help Britian untill Germany decided it was going to war against them.

So yah without Canada Britian would have fallen probably in 1941 or earlier I mean it was Canada who supplied Britian and France and other allies with weapons, supplies and support for those three years prior to the US coming. Then once the Americans did join in it was still Canadian ships protecting the supply lines into Britian and Europe. The North Atlantic was Canada's territory. Then of course theirs the liberation of Italy which would have been pretty difficult without Canada's support not to mention the liberation of the Netherlands which Canada was almost soully responsable for. Then of course Dieppe and the planning of D-Day which Canada was instrumental to the landing on Juno beach. Then the paratroopers and air/naval support for the push into Europe.

So the key points

-Without Canada their wouldn't be an RAF (Royal Air Force) which was trained and equiped in Canada. The planes bullets and pilots all came from Canada.

-Without Canada their would be no naval support , the North Atlantic would have been lost

-Without Canada Britian wouldn't have had food or supplies being completely cut off would have been under seige and likely fall to Germany

-Without Canada - The Netherlands would have either remained occupied or another country would have to liberate them

-Without Canada - The US and Britian were caught in Italy and Canada bailed them out and did alot of the fighting to Liberate Italy. So Italy probably wouldn't have fallen.

-Without Canada the worlds fourth largest air force and third largest Navy would never have taken part in WWII.

-Without Canada the allies wouldn't have had Dieppe to tell them what to do in on D-Day, it was the Canadians that tested the plan on Dieppe and without those lessons D-Day could have failed.

-Without Canada Juno Beach wouldn't have been landed on, if Canada wasn't their another power would have to have stretched their forces even thinner.

-Without Canada the bombings of targets prior to D-Day and the landing of paratroopers behind enemy lines would have been hampered. The Fourth Largest Air force in the world wouldn't be their dropping bombs downing German fighters and landing paratroopers.

-Without Canada .... I could go on but you get my point.

Now could the war have been won without Canada? Yah I guess just as much as without any other ally. Canada was as important to the allies winning as was America. Canada fought the war and America showed up right in time to help finish it. Without Canada the war would have been lost before America even joined in.

Also my thread talked more about other conflicts as well as the Korean War or WWI or Afghanistan...etc...

In Afghanistan the Canadian Army which is puny compaired to the American's was one of four countries allowing their troops to be active in combat zones. Canada was responsable almost entirely for the defence and reconstruction of Kandahar Province. In the Korean War Canada was one of the major reasons it was won, now unlike WWII it wasn't like the war would have been lost without Canada but it was a huge factor in why it was.

 

Also for the guys who said they were offended because their grandfather or what ever fought in the war. Well my family did too I had great grand parents die in the war. My great Grandma worked in a factory building planes for the RAF. My Uncle was a medic in the Korean war (Mennonite, so he didn't fight).

Canada has been at America's side in every major war since WWII except pretty much Iraq. Yet they never get credit. Britian gets credit, france gets credit, Russia gets credit...etc...etc...

In the future it would be nice to see just a few more games or movies and such credit Canadian soldiers for what they have done for the world. I mean they gave their lives to save millions of people in multiple wars, they deserve to be remembered as heroes just as much as any American does or British or French or Russian. They all deserve to be creditted.



-JC7

"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer

 

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IseeLight said:
kain_kusanagi said:
IseeLight said:
kain_kusanagi said:
IseeLight said:
kain_kusanagi said:
Look at it like this. Canada was and still is part of the British Empire and therefor Canada was part of the British forces and therefor when anyone mentions what the English did you can just pretend they mean the British.

The first step in gaining a reputation as big as the USA is kicking the English out of your country. The world will continue to see Canada as England's toady for as long as the Queen is Canada's head of state.

Good luck with your revolution.

lol if you believe that you are ignorant as hell, and the USA lost to a third world country that's how bad their military is.

A. I was being cheeky.

B. I find it hilarious that you'd call anyone ignorant while making statement like that.

 

On another topic. Maybe Canada gets forgotten because it has 1/10th the population of the USA. For every Canadian who wants to see a Canadian focused war movie there are 10 Americans buying tickets to an American focused war movie. It probably doesn't help that over 90% of the population live within about 100 miles of the US border, shop, and vacation in the USA, and generally get mistaken for Americans when visiting abroad.

If every Canadian couple had 20 kids Canada would have the same population as the USA in the span of one generation. That would mean Canada would probably have a film industry on par with the USA and they'd be able to make as many Canadian war movies as they want.

Have fun making babies.

I' not ignorant you are just more ignorant then I thought look up your own military history, USA has sucked in just about every battle it's been in, it only wins by having overwelming forces and even then they sustain a hell of alot more losses then they should. The reason isn't population it's that americans control the media that's it.

I don't know where you get your anti-American information or why you seem to have an attitude about the USA vs Canada. Lord knows the world is full of people that love to hate the USA and tend to post less than impartial information on the subjest. But as far as unbias comparison of military strength, feel free to check out the following link: http://www.globalfirepower.com/

Of course you are free to disregard that information, insult me, my country, the wars my father, and grandfather, and family fought for freedom in and continue to belital the military my brother and friends are in today that continues to defend liberty and justice throughout the world. You are free to hate America as much as you want since Canada is perfect in every way and American is clearly an evil conspiracy to create suffering through the world and Canada should just take over and run the whole world so everyone can be perfect Canadians too.

You may have mistaken my humor for insults. Sorry about that, but sarcasm is difficult to convey in text. To remedy that I suggest you remove the chip on your shoulder on the topic of US/Canada relations and grow a sense of humor about yanks and canucks, who by the way aren't all that different.

Contrary to popular belief the US doesn't control the media, not even the media in the USA. American's media has an American perspective just like Canadian media has a Canadian perspective or Australia has an Australian perspective. That's to be expected. Venezuela is another story altogether though.

I should tell you a secret. I happen to love and respect Canada and have visited many times and will, I'm sure, many times more. There, the truth is out. I feel better now, almost liberated.

The USA and Canada are like best friends, and we should be friends too. We share the longest unprotected border in the world and our economies are linked closer than probably any other soverenties. Plus we are both gamers who happen to live in the same hemesphere and speak the same language. We may have even played Halo on the same team and not even known it. We shouldn't be arguing about who's country is better when both are pretty damn good countries with pretty damn good militaries both rated in the top 30. It's not a pissing contest. Our nations wouldn't hesitate to defend each other.

I didn't want to argue about this, but you insulted my country and the military that defends it of whom my family and friends are part of. You weren't joking or being ironic, you were being serious and melicious. I've now said my peace on the subject and I will leave you be.

That's just troops and armorments it has nothing to do with the overall effectiveness of the military, the USA lost to vietnam, they had far more military strength and still lost badly, the USA has sucked in every major battle they have been in despite having the advantage, so again look at military history and educate yourself. And the whole USA fighting for freedom is such a joke, they didn't enter the world wars until years after they began and they invade thrid world countries and bomb things for no good reason most of the time too. They take heavy losses despite having a massive advantage in military strength and their military spending and sheer stupidity is the reason the world is on the verge of ecnomical collapse. People who dislike the USA dislike it for very good reason.


Then how do you explain the fact that they crushed Japanese Imperial Army. They had no advantiges there, I believe



The nations to the west are seriously deluded about their contributions to the war. If anything, they were more or less flies being swatted away for most of the war, then came in at the end to land-grab before the Soviets could claim it. If anything, the western forces were greatly overrated. World War II was mostly a war between the Germanics and the Slavics. Most of these "Western" nations have largely built up mythology about their accomplishments and how it was them as purely good and Germany as purely evil - completely ignoring the fact that most Germans were against Hitler, and that there were more evil acts done by Americans than good acts; including carpet bombings, nuking cities, resulting in the slaughter of millions and mass destruction of history.

It is strange seeing that the US gets credit for things they are not responsible for. Especially considering they aligned themselves with Nazi scientists who had no more right to live than other Nazis who were executed; they took scientists who worked tens of thousands to death to build missiles, as well as scientists who had performed vivisections against unwilling participants. Many of those same Nazi scientists were used to develop weapons of mass destruction that have struck fear into the entire world; and the US still builds and maintains thousands of these.

While they often sided with the correct sides in the wars of the 20th century, they have not conducted themselves as a good nation should. Plus, they have been largely behind the spread of capitalist regimes in third world countries, which have led to near slave labour conditions for entire populations including children and elderly. While I do agree that the Nazi regime was probably the most evil of the 20th century, it was the Americans who were the most evil for the majority of the century.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Player1x3 said:
Then how do you explain the fact that they crushed Japanese Imperial Army. They had no advantiges there, I believe

They defeated japan by using terrist tactics and dropping nukes on towns killing thousands of innocent people.



IseeLight said:
Player1x3 said:
Then how do you explain the fact that they crushed Japanese Imperial Army. They had no advantiges there, I believe

They defeated japan by using terrist tactics and dropping nukes on towns killing thousands of innocent people.


What terrorist tactics? And if they hadnt used nukes they would have to invade japan, which would result in much higher casualites for Japanese people than Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And Hiroshima was an important military target for US, if US used terrorist tactics they would try and kill as manny innocent people as they can, so they could have just nuked Tokio.

While I am no large supporter of US Army, no one can take away their credit for destroyng Japanese Empire and its army.



Player1x3 said:
IseeLight said:
Player1x3 said:
Then how do you explain the fact that they crushed Japanese Imperial Army. They had no advantiges there, I believe

They defeated japan by using terrist tactics and dropping nukes on towns killing thousands of innocent people.


What terrorist tactics? And if they hadnt used nukes they would have to invade japan, which would result in much higher casualites for Japanese people than Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And Hiroshima was an important military target for US, if US used terrorist tactics they would try and kill as manny innocent people as they can, so they could have just nuked Tokio.

While I am no large supporter of US Army, no one can take away their credit for destroyng Japanese Empire and its army.

Blowing up towns with nukes and saying if they didn't surrender they would keep blowing up their towns and keep killing innocent people counts as terrorist tatics. The towns weren't military targets, some facilities in the towns where but they blow up alot more then the facilities, and how are nukes not an advantage?