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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft “Unapologetic” About Going After Casual Audience, Aiming To Be #1 WW This YR

scottie on 29 June 2011
oniyide said:
Dont see how MS can win this year, they have been losing to PS3 all year and i dont know how long the Wii boost will last. Unless they are talking fiscal year. And this crap about people moving on to core games is just that crap. It wasnt true when Ninty said it with Wii and its not true now. Your aunty and grandma who bought Kinect for dancing and exercise dont give a damn about Halo or Gears, if they did they would have been playing those games already.

Kudos to MS, at least they are supporting their damn add-on unlike some companies. And there not content to just release dance games, exercise, and mini game compilations, because we do not have enough of those



with apologies to the baby seals. I know plenty of people that bought a Wii for Wii Sports and/or Fit, and ended up buying core games.

 

You can argue that it is not the case for the majority(who knows if you'd be correct), but it IS the case for a significant minority. As an example, the sales of Mario Kart: Wii and NSMB:Wiiimply one of two things.

a) Casual gamers are not buying the Wii in significant numbers (certainly no more than the PS2)

b) Casual gamers buy core games in statistically significant numbers

 

Take your pick, either be not allowed to troll Nintendo any more, or admit you were wrong in this thread.



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Back2TheFuture on 29 June 2011
nightsurge said:
endimion said:
Baalzamon said:
nightsurge said:
Back2TheFuture said:
microsoft are going to have to pull something out right now there in 3rd place this year and with a ps3 price cut incomming its going to be difficult and are they going after nintendo now??? goodluck :)

MS is in a position to drastically cut the prices (more than Sony can) and still remain profitable on hardware sold. Sony is not very far ahead for the year so MS has a really good shot at this.

First off, I don't understand where people obtain this knowledge that they supposedly have on whether or not a company can or cannot afford a certain price cut and remain profitable.  Could you provide a link on how much Microsoft is making per console?  I personally have no clue whether or not Microsoft can or can't afford a $25, $50, $75, or $100 price cut, nor any price cut that Sony can afford.  I have absolutely no clue, and I highly doubt you do either.

Secondly, what exactly do you mean they can cut more than Sony can.  Sony will very likely be cutting $50 from their price in the near future.  Do you really think they are going to cut $75, or possibly even $100 from the console price?  I think you are crazy.  A $100 cut probably wouldn't even be that much more effective than a $50 cut would be.  Not to mention, a $50 cut now could allow for another potential cut in, say, a years time from now.  The overall boost from 2 smaller cuts split up by a year would probably be more significant than one large price cut.

Third, did you even look at the numbers for how far ahead Sony is this year?  Sony is up over 700,000 units over the 360.  The 360 would have to outsell the PS3 every single week for the rest of the year by 27,000 units.  If our current trend continues for even 5 more weeks (PS3 outselling 360 by ~15,000 per week), the 360 would then have to outsell the PS3 every single week by 37,000 units.  IF our trends continued for 10 weeks, the 360 would have to outsell the PS3 by over 53,000 each week.  I'm not saying any of these will happen, I'm just saying, that the lead is bigger than it may seem, and with the current trends, I REALLY don't see a change drastic enough to change this.

we did have the production cost back when they were selling at losse a couple years back... I'm sure we can find that.... but I don't have the time.... now it's pretty easy to calculate the HW price based on component prices.... and with a little basic in business management and economics you can speculate on their production cost....

that said I have no numbers in hand myself..... but it is quite easy to guestimate something believable from information available online if you care to dig arround....

now I read your stat... makes sens though we've seen pretty crazy push in pre holliday season till end of year.... depends on what's cooking up at each other marketing dept and what kind of communication campain they have in store.... it's gonna be really tough.... but not impossible.... not like the one about PS3 being in front of XB within 3 years people were throwing around back in 07... that was pretty crazy to even imagine.....

@Baalzamon - What endimion said. I actually made a very detailed thread on the production costs of Kinect and the 360 a while back, but don't have time to search for it right now.  Also, it seems you read way too far into my post. You are assuming that I implied things that I did not, such as the assumption that I think MS will cut the price by $100. I'm not ruling out any possibilities, but what I can say is that MS most definitely can cut $100 off if they wanted and still be profitable on hardware, while Sony could not do the same.

And please refer back to 2008, where the 360 was down by over 1 million, and after their price cut soared to pass the PS3 by 1 million. That's a 2 million swing starting from September onward, and with MS predicting to be the #1 console WW this year, that is even more evidence to support they will be making some pretty big moves to boost sales this year.



but that doesn't matter because playstation are also getting a price cut so it will go null and void and ps3 will remain in the lead the only chance xbox has of being playstation this year is for playstation to not have a pricecut which we all know will be happening in gamescon so xbox can beat ps3 this year but the chances of that are around the chances of uncharted 3 flopping 90/10



oniyide on 29 June 2011
scottie said:
oniyide said:
Dont see how MS can win this year, they have been losing to PS3 all year and i dont know how long the Wii boost will last. Unless they are talking fiscal year. And this crap about people moving on to core games is just that crap. It wasnt true when Ninty said it with Wii and its not true now. Your aunty and grandma who bought Kinect for dancing and exercise dont give a damn about Halo or Gears, if they did they would have been playing those games already.

Kudos to MS, at least they are supporting their damn add-on unlike some companies. And there not content to just release dance games, exercise, and mini game compilations, because we do not have enough of those



with apologies to the baby seals. I know plenty of people that bought a Wii for Wii Sports and/or Fit, and ended up buying core games.

 

You can argue that it is not the case for the majority(who knows if you'd be correct), but it IS the case for a significant minority. As an example, the sales of Mario Kart: Wii and NSMB:Wiiimply one of two things.

a) Casual gamers are not buying the Wii in significant numbers (certainly no more than the PS2)

b) Casual gamers buy core games in statistically significant numbers

 

Take your pick, either be not allowed to troll Nintendo any more, or admit you were wrong in this thread.

Those are Mario games, they sell gangbusters anyway. What about the non Ninty Wii games?? How come the 3rd party core games on WIi dont even come close to those Mario game sales?? Not saying those are not "core" games but they are, as you say in a minority. Why havent the majortiy of Wii owners bought, COD for instance??? Thats just as core and almost as popular as the Mario series this gen and the Wii versions dont do anywhere near the HDs despite having a larger install base and no its not cause of ads, because PS3 gets no ads for that either



scottie on 30 June 2011
oniyide said:
scottie said:
oniyide said:

 

Those are Mario games, they sell gangbusters anyway. What about the non Ninty Wii games?? How come the 3rd party core games on WIi dont even come close to those Mario game sales?? Not saying those are not "core" games but they are, as you say in a minority. Why havent the majortiy of Wii owners bought, COD for instance??? Thats just as core and almost as popular as the Mario series this gen and the Wii versions dont do anywhere near the HDs despite having a larger install base and no its not cause of ads, because PS3 gets no ads for that either


1) Look at the sales of MK on the GC, or the N64, or the SNES. You must either accept that the Wii has a core userbase more than 3 times the size of the SNES's, or that casual gamers buy core games. Choose one!

 

2) Wii owners do not buy CoD because they have taste :P No, really it's because they get lazy/late ports and the developers were unable to get good online on the Wii.



endimion on 30 June 2011

then again i'll argue that mario kart is a core game or anything nintendo is core..... sorry I'm not picking at the Wii crowed what I'm saying is that ninty characters reached that status of legendary icons, chicks and a bunch of casual see them like they see hello kitty.... they just love it.....

so yeah ninty said that.... but there problem was to not have core games..... Zelda,Mario, Mario Kart, Smash Bros are not core anymore...... they've been accepted by the casual crowed more than a decade ago.....

Now about the price cut.... even if Sony cuts there price there is no way they can cut it lower than MS can...... especially Kinect included.....

to the one wondering about cost.... first the production line is not held by MS.... it's probably one or more CM doing the job.... they bill it at a fix cost.... when you take production cost to MS it is already including all the overhead of manufacturing.... now you were talking about marketing expenses.....those are suppose to be unimportant.... because if the campain worked like it is suppose to work the up sales of products is suppose to be covered by it.... if you know that it won't push it enough don't do it.... so yeah on kinect bundle I'm pretty sure they can cut the price by a 100 and even throw a couple games in there..... I wouldn't be surprise to see Kinect bundles around Xmas with 1 or 2 games for around 250 and 300 for the big box.... then again they can choose not to do a cut and just inflate the bundles.... with a 12 month gold a couple game and 2 wireless pads stuff like that.... there is many way to cut the price without cutting it.....

now I don't think they'll win the calendar year..... but I'm pretty confident they can pull out the fiscal one.... they do know how to push sales when they want to... it's MS we are talking about.... they are the one who make people "THINK THE SAME" lol :P



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Seece on 30 June 2011
RolStoppable said:
dsage01 said:
Well it's already almost July and their in last place. Gears can't have that big of an effect.

The thing is that Microsoft is probably counting the timeframe of their fiscal year which starts on July 1st, so what happened in 2011 so far won't matter for their goal. What makes me believe that this is correct is that Microsoft at the same time said that they had become the #1 in the USA, but in 2010 the Wii was still ahead of the 360. However, if we look at the numbers for Microsoft's fiscal year which is July 1st 2010 to June 30th 2011, then their statement is true.

Yeah, also the fact they've out with it now, rather than early in the year. I think either way it hinges on this christmas though, Xmas + U.S will be their ticket.



 

nightsurge on 30 June 2011
Baalzamon said:
nightsurge said:

@Baalzamon - What endimion said. I actually made a very detailed thread on the production costs of Kinect and the 360 a while back, but don't have time to search for it right now.  Also, it seems you read way too far into my post. You are assuming that I implied things that I did not, such as the assumption that I think MS will cut the price by $100. I'm not ruling out any possibilities, but what I can say is that MS most definitely can cut $100 off if they wanted and still be profitable on hardware, while Sony could not do the same.

And please refer back to 2008, where the 360 was down by over 1 million, and after their price cut soared to pass the PS3 by 1 million. That's a 2 million swing starting from September onward, and with MS predicting to be the #1 console WW this year, that is even more evidence to support they will be making some pretty big moves to boost sales this year.

Not trying to get into too much of an argument, but I have to ask, what exactly do you define as profitable on hardware?  Maybe we have different views.  If the only thing you are doing is adding up all the different parts of the hardware, and saying that is the cost, then yes, Microsoft can probably make a profit it they drop the price $100.  Company expenses associated with the hardware should be related to the profit though.  Putting the console together, shipping the console, advertising for the console, and administrative fees associated with the console.  I have a really hard time believing Microsoft would still be making a profit after a $100 price cut if you figured in all of these expenses.

I did take those costs into consideration when I made my estimates, but without having any idea what those costs come down to, I simply took a ballpark $20 per console for all those added manufacturing, shipping, advertising, storage, etc. costs. The 360 hasn't had a price cut since 2008, and has had some pretty extreme cost saving reductions made since then with the slim, combined 45nm cpu/gpu, smaller motherboard and psu, etc.

If they were to take a loss after the $100 cut, it would be very small and made up instantly with 1 or 2 games, or Xbox Live subscription.



endimion on 30 June 2011
RolStoppable said:

endimion said:
then again i'll argue that mario kart is a core game or anything nintendo is core..... sorry I'm not picking at the Wii crowed what I'm saying is that ninty characters reached that status of legendary icons, chicks and a bunch of casual see them like they see hello kitty.... they just love it.....

so yeah ninty said that.... but there problem was to not have core games..... Zelda,Mario, Mario Kart, Smash Bros are not core anymore...... they've been accepted by the casual crowed more than a decade ago.....

 

You are mistaking "core" to mean "hardcore". What core stands for are titles that are the bread and butter of a gaming company and the longer a series has been around, the more core it is, because it has repeatedly proven its worth. For Zelda, Mario, Mario Kart and Smash Bros. to cease being core games, they would either have to sit out at least one complete generation or have their sales drop into irrelevance.

Nintendo's games aren't hardcore though, because that term usually stands for "games I do not like", something that absolutely holds true for you. Other than that the word really has no clearly defined meaning.


well since Wii when ninty was refering to core it always was to Hardcore they are the one that did the change of meaning not us.... then again if core is that then it doesn't oppose to casual.... what you are saying means that a core game can be casual.... now there isn't a single game type I do not like so for me the more the merrier....  and lately I have been doing a lot of casual gaming... mostly because it is with friends that don't play usualy.... and had just as much fun if not more than when I play fallout, halo, or forza...

what I'm seeing here.... it's people are bitching so much lately between "core" and "casual" that they even lost track of the true meaning.... which at the end doesn't really matter..... as long as the majority of gamers are still having fun a couple hours a day or so playing it means the big 3 (ninty, sony, MS) are doing something right.....



Baalzamon on 30 June 2011
nightsurge said:
Baalzamon said:
nightsurge said:

@Baalzamon - What endimion said. I actually made a very detailed thread on the production costs of Kinect and the 360 a while back, but don't have time to search for it right now.  Also, it seems you read way too far into my post. You are assuming that I implied things that I did not, such as the assumption that I think MS will cut the price by $100. I'm not ruling out any possibilities, but what I can say is that MS most definitely can cut $100 off if they wanted and still be profitable on hardware, while Sony could not do the same.

And please refer back to 2008, where the 360 was down by over 1 million, and after their price cut soared to pass the PS3 by 1 million. That's a 2 million swing starting from September onward, and with MS predicting to be the #1 console WW this year, that is even more evidence to support they will be making some pretty big moves to boost sales this year.

Not trying to get into too much of an argument, but I have to ask, what exactly do you define as profitable on hardware?  Maybe we have different views.  If the only thing you are doing is adding up all the different parts of the hardware, and saying that is the cost, then yes, Microsoft can probably make a profit it they drop the price $100.  Company expenses associated with the hardware should be related to the profit though.  Putting the console together, shipping the console, advertising for the console, and administrative fees associated with the console.  I have a really hard time believing Microsoft would still be making a profit after a $100 price cut if you figured in all of these expenses.

I did take those costs into consideration when I made my estimates, but without having any idea what those costs come down to, I simply took a ballpark $20 per console for all those added manufacturing, shipping, advertising, storage, etc. costs. The 360 hasn't had a price cut since 2008, and has had some pretty extreme cost saving reductions made since then with the slim, combined 45nm cpu/gpu, smaller motherboard and psu, etc.

If they were to take a loss after the $100 cut, it would be very small and made up instantly with 1 or 2 games, or Xbox Live subscription.

Yea, that is the one other thing I didn't mention.  Sometimes it is ok for a console to take some loss, if it can be made up easily with other aspects where additional profit will be made.  Without knowing an exact number, I suppose $20 is a good guess.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

S.T.A.G.E. on 30 June 2011
BenVTrigger said:
@steverhcp02

Dance Central has sold over 2 million copies, Kinect Adventures over 10 million, and Kinect Sports over 3 million copies.

Who gives a damn what metacritic says, really a bunch of Core gamers reviewing more casual and party type games what do you think they are gonna give it score wise?

Sales speak for themselves and saying the majority of gamers aren't happy is rediculous. The majority of internet geeks who sit on forum boards aren't happy, actual consumers speak differently as is obvious in the sales.


Dont you think the 10 mil are based on bundled sales? Really given the casuals the chance Kinect Adventures wouldve sold below Dance Central. Kinect Adventures sales= Kinect sales. Give the reviews a bit more credit.