By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General Discussion - UPDATE Man Faces Minimum 1 Year in Prison for Bringing Manga to Canada On His Laptop

sapphi_snake said:
o_O.Q said:
sapphi_snake said:
Torillian said:
sapphi_snake said:
I'm curious though, what kind of person actually reads such material, if not a paedophile.


Well that depends what it was since all we know is that some guy at a customs office considered it child pornograpy, could just be some high school manga with a few risque scenes or it could be full on loli hentai.  If it's the second than yes he's a paedophile, but if he doesn't act out on his desires I see no reason he should be punushed for thinking whatever he wants long as the material wasn't made by exploiting children (which it wasn't) then the law shouldn't have a say.

But if it really was lolicon then shouldn't he be forced to at least see a psychiatrist. I mean, today he reads a lolicon mag, tomorrow he rapes a pre-schooler. It's not as if porn prevents people from commiting such crimes.

i watched a movie last night where the protagonist cursed randomly, had sex with hookers and shot people and funny enough when i went out today i was still able to act civil are you saying all violent or sexually suggestive material must be banned?

Probably because, unlike a paedophile, you are not insane. You gotta understand, I never said such material turns someone into a paedophile, I said the person who would view such material is a paedophile, and needs help before he ends up hurting a child. The kew is to prevent crime. If a person had violent outbursts would that person not be made to take anger management classes? If a person manifested alarming racist ideeas, would that person not be made to take sensitivity training? Most of all, a paedophile is a mentally ill person, therefore they do not think logically, and cannot be treated as rational-thinking persons.


what material? where is the confirmation of the exact type of material it is? from what i've read all we know is that its manga which could range from naruto ( which at times has scenes where naruto transforms into a nakid girl with clouds placed to block certain areas of the body )

...to actual hardcore hentai or whatever ...naruto is a good example even thought there are scenes like the one above the overall theme of the show is not sexual and watching it doesn't mean that you're attracted to little girls or whatever 



Around the Network

Let's take this hypothetical case:

I'm playing Mortal Kombat on my console, when a cop, who was casually passing by, sees me perform a fatality.
He instantly draws his gun, smashes the door down, and while he calls for back up, he violently arrests me and seizes all my console related items to use them as proof in the case.
I'm now facing 5 years to perpetual prison sentence or death penalty because I'm a potential killer / I'm now being sent to a mental institute and will suffer isolation from the "sane world" for a very extended period of time because I can't control myself as my thoughts simply control me and in a very irrational way.

That's some good reasoning, good job.

That's the fucking point of something being FICTIONAL. It's not fucking real and it's not hurting anybody. You can't prevent a crime that was never perpetrated, basing yourself only in useless evidence like entertainment material. You need solid proof that this person had a plan to commit the crimes. Otherwise someone saying bomb would make him/her a terrible terrorist. That's what happens when you let the government take your liberties away. I cannot believe people support such ridiculous things.



Proud poster of the 10000th reply at the Official Smash Bros Update Thread.

tag - "I wouldn't trust gamespot, even if it was a live comparison."

Bets with Conegamer:

Pandora's Tower will have an opening week of less than 37k in Japan. (Won!)
Pandora's Tower will sell less than 100k lifetime in Japan.
Stakes: 1 week of avatar control for each one.

Fullfilled Prophecies

for people making comments about canada....it was the US that recently convicted a man of having "simpsons porn"...



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

"Its like sex, but with a winner!"

MrBubbles Review Threads: Bill Gates, Jak II, Kingdom Hearts II, The Strangers, Sly 2, Crackdown, Zohan, Quarantine, Klungo Sssavesss Teh World, MS@E3'08, WATCHMEN(movie), Shadow of the Colossus, The Saboteur



MrBubbles said:
for people making comments about canada....it was the US that recently convicted a man of having "simpsons porn"...

neh that was Australia... and we all know how we think about "Australia"..



 

Face the future.. Gamecenter ID: nikkom_nl (oh no he didn't!!) 

Around the Network
sapphi_snake said:
Torillian said:
sapphi_snake said:

But if he does have sexual attraction towards small children, then he is a potential threat. Paedophilia is a mental diorder, and paedophiles generally don't think rationally, and make up bizarre excuses to justify their actions (things like "a person reaches full sexual maturity at the age of 5"). Heck, even the book Lolita presented a situation like that. Making this guy go to a psychiatrist isn't punishing him, it's helping him, and possibly saving a poor child in the future. Igf he really is sexually attracted to small children, then he'll eventually crack if he doesn't recieve help.

Paedophilia is indeed a mental condition, but unless the person is a threat to others you can't force treatment on them.  If they want treatment they will seek it out, it is not the government's place to tell them how to think.  

Paedophilia is a crime because it has a victim: children.  Children aren't deemed old enough to make decisions about sex on their own and therefore sex with someone who can make decisions (anyone over 18) is illegal and I totally agree with this law.  Sure sometimes you get silly situations like when a 19 year old dates a 17 year old but a line had to be drawn in the sand and stuck with.  But child pronography created without the involvement of any actual children doesn't hurt any of them, and therefore it should not be a crime.  Just the same as rape fantasy porn with women pretending isn't a crime as long as noone was actually raped (and therefore no victim)

The bolded statement is what the crux of the whole argument is, and until you prove that anyone sexually attracted to the underaged will eventually crack without help then you are punishing someone for their thoughts and I just can't see that as something the government should do.  I'm a strong believer in the old saying that your rights to swing your arms around stop at the other person's nose and therefore your rights to think should only stop when they affect others in a negative way.  Until that point you can think about any crazy thing you want.

But in modern society we aim to prevent crime. You approach does exactly the opposite of that. When a person suffers from a mental condition that makes them a threat to others (in this case children), it's quite normal to force that person to go to a specialist. You have to remember that paedophiles are insane people, who are not thinking rationally and cannot control themselves. I never advocated that people who are caught with animated child pornography go to prison, I said they should recieve HELP, which is not the same thing. Prevention is key.

Everyone who molests a child is in fact not a pedophile. Pedophilia--the public perception at least--involves sexual attraction to undeage children. Molestation does not always involve attraction; therefore they would simply be child molesters. Pedophiles can very much control themselves, otherwise all instances of their... violations would not, and in fact, could not be a crime. Attraction is not an excuse to act on ones urges. The main difference between animated child pornography and that involving real children is that the owner is well aware of damage being done to the real children and chooses to support it anyway. That conscious decision to support the victimization of children is the real crime. Animated child pornogrphy does produce those victims. To date, there is no cure for pedophilia, so simply demanding those caught with animated child pornography "seek help" is a moot point. The only help that can be provided is managing their desires so as not to cause harm to real children. Your approach involves treating them like time bombs just itching to go off.

Returning to the case against this man. Even if he was caught with hardcore zombie loli hentai--we could even throw the charge of necrophilia at him--it does not necessarily mean he is a pedophile. It is possible to be attracted to animated characters exclusively. One can't assume the qualities he finds attractive in animated girls or women automatically translate to real girls and women. Many of those qualities may not even exist in real people, and if they don't he just won't be attracted to them.



sapphi_snake said:

But if it really was lolicon then shouldn't he be forced to at least see a psychiatrist. I mean, today he reads a lolicon mag, tomorrow he rapes a pre-schooler. It's not as if porn prevents people from commiting such crimes.

Yup, today you play GTA, tomorrow you kill random people on the street.

I get the idea of prevention but as others pointed it's very dangerous when it verges to though-crime. I realise you don't think he should go to jail but that's the logical extension, and it's abusrd. Not only this kind of anal prevention causes more unecessary suffering than it prevents (and less importantly bloats the prisional system and takes people out of the work force), it may actually make people who would never commit a crime into away more dangerous people, both for a sense of injustice and because of the environment of a prision.

sapphi_snake said:

Probably because, unlike a paedophile, you are not insane. You gotta understand, I never said such material turns someone into a paedophile, I said the person who would view such material is a paedophile, and needs help before he ends up hurting a child. The kew is to prevent crime. If a person had violent outbursts would that person not be made to take anger management classes? If a person manifested alarming racist ideeas, would that person not be made to take sensitivity training? Most of all, a paedophile is a mentally ill person, therefore they do not think logically, and cannot be treated as rational-thinking persons.

Also, you claim paedophiles are "insane" and, furthermore, that anyone being turned on by paedophilic material is a paedophile, but it's not that simple. Please don't take this as to mean I'm ok with it, but it's true that paedophilia is the big taboo of today's society.

Is a rapist not just as "insane" as a paedophile? Is anyone who watches rape-porn insane?

But, more importantly, take a 13 year old girl. If an adult has sex with her, it's paedophilia. Ok. But is it if he just has any sort of attraction to her? According to you, yes it is. Then again, there are plenty of girls around that age that most grown men would actually find attractive, even if most would never ever admit to it, because it's a such a huge taboo. Are all these men secretly insane then?

There are lot's of pretty normal, even natural, reasons someone could like these things to different degrees.

Also, wtf, these guys can actually search your computer just like that?



Kudistos Megistos said:

Moralfaggotry at its finest. Anti-loli laws are the perfect example of a thought crime: people are criminalised for thinkingthings other people don't like, even though no-one gets harmed.

The US needs to declare war on Canada!



yea no more free health care, pay to life xD 



sapphi_snake said:
Torillian said:
sapphi_snake said:
I'm curious though, what kind of person actually reads such material, if not a paedophile.


Well that depends what it was since all we know is that some guy at a customs office considered it child pornograpy, could just be some high school manga with a few risque scenes or it could be full on loli hentai.  If it's the second than yes he's a paedophile, but if he doesn't act out on his desires I see no reason he should be punushed for thinking whatever he wants long as the material wasn't made by exploiting children (which it wasn't) then the law shouldn't have a say.

But if it really was lolicon then shouldn't he be forced to at least see a psychiatrist. I mean, today he reads a lolicon mag, tomorrow he rapes a pre-schooler. It's not as if porn prevents people from commiting such crimes.

Since you seem so concerned about homosexual rights I'm surprised you are so quick to give someone else a ride on that slippery slide when its such an oft used criticism of homosexuality.



ǝןdɯıs ʇı dǝǝʞ oʇ ǝʞıן ı ʍouʞ noʎ 

Ask me about being an elitist jerk

Time for hype

Good thing they cannot scan my mind yet...

Id be all kinds of fucked.