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Forums - Gaming Discussion - How powerful should Nex-Box and PS4 be?

 

How powerful should Sony and Microsoft's machines be

50% more powerful then PS3 (Inline with WiiU) 17 11.11%
 
60% more powerful then PS3 4 2.61%
 
70% more powerful then PS3 18 11.76%
 
80% more powerful then PS3 23 15.03%
 
90% more powerful then PS3 13 8.50%
 
100% more powerful then PS3 (Heavy price tag) 78 50.98%
 
Total:153
zarx on 21 June 2011
Michael-5 said:

Wii U has the added appeal with it's controller. If PS4/XB3 had graphics on par with Wii U then Wii U would offer a more complete experience. So naturally PS4 and XB3 should be noticbly more powerful then the Wii U. Maybe not as extreme as this gen, but they should show a noticable jump in graphics.

Most gens come with graphical jumps of 100%, but lately developing games has become a much more costly buisness. If we jump 100% again we may see something similar to the drought of games PS360 had untill fall 2007, and even then it was only 360 getting good games. Remember how PS2 and Gamecube had great games from day 1?  Soo 100% and 50% are out of the question.

I voted 80%. Most people have LCD TV's capable of 1080p resolution, and if they don't they at least can run 720p. We need something that can run 1080p with 60 FPS minimum, day 1. ideally we want games running at 120 FPS now, so we can actually put some use to the resolution of many $500 tv's.

With an 80% jump in graphics, PS4/XB3 will be noticably better looking then Wii U, yet not too expensive to develop for, and at the same time run a smooth 1080p 60 FPS from day 1. This is why we bought HD TV's, lets put them to use.

P.S. I find most next gen games look like the cinematics to prior gens. So PS1 cinematics look like PS2 games (take FFVII cinematics, not that far off from FFX gameplay. Same with Driver 1 and 3). If this holds true, that 30 second teaser trailer of Halo 4 should be what we should expect Halo for XB3 to look like. Same with Final Fantasy, and Gran Turismo.


For games with the graphics of Uncharted 3 to run at 1080p and 60fps (with no added detail) you would need at least a 4x jump in power...



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cAPSLOCK on 21 June 2011

People seem to forget that these games are costing an increasingly prohibitive amount of money to make. If you get another super crazy jump in tech that just means you're going to end up with even more studios betting the whole thing on 1 game, hoping to hell it doesn't flop. How many companies shit the bed this generation?

The end result is going to be less games that take far less risks and just play it as safe as possible.

Also take into account that, at least in the US, we're still in the shitter economically. People here can't afford the $600 Kutaragi Grill and will think very long and hard about anything over $300. I mean shit, we have something like almost 8 in 10 college students returning home to live with their parents. This situation is not getting better and it's only going to get worse because nothing is in place to fix the situation.

Super expensive games built for super expensive consoles to appeal to a rapidly shrinking population that can afford it? You'd have to be the dumbest fucking businessman on the planet to do that. In the end games are entertainment; they're toys.

Regardless of how much people on this board (myself included) loves games to the bitter end, the vast majority of people out there have a threshold of bullshit they're willing to put up with from toy makers.



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Potable_Toe on 21 June 2011

The Witcher 2 cost $8,000,000 to make, so yes games can quite easily cost less whilst looking, playing and being shitting good :|

Onto the topic at hand, next gen console power.
The biggest bottleneck this gen has been RAM, if you gave a 360 or PS3 4GB of RAM it would make them 2 - 3 times more capable than they currently are. As it is though the next gen should have ATLEAST 4GB of RAM and should push for 8GB, or 16 times the 360/PS3, to be safe. Not only will the raw amount be considerably higher but it will run at anywhere between 2/4 times the clockspeed of the 360's memory too.

Processors have become far more powerful and effecient so a CPU several times that of the 360/PS3 CPU wouldn't be unthinkable either.

The biggest advancements over the last 5/6 years, 7/9 by the time the next Xbox/PS is released, have been seen with GPUs... GPUS have already exceeded the Xenos by a factor of more than 10 and will double or triple in power over the next 2 years. Ofcourse next gen consoles wont have the most bleeding edge GPU available at the time and nor will they need them but a GPU in the range of 8 - 12 times more powerful is not an unrealistic expectation.

In all the basic numbers should put it at atleast 800% that of the 360/PS3 but with a 'theoretical' top maybe in the reaches of 2000% that of them.



20happyballs on 22 June 2011
cAPSLOCK said:
People seem to forget that these games are costing an increasingly prohibitive amount of money to make. If you get another super crazy jump in tech that just means you're going to end up with even more studios betting the whole thing on 1 game, hoping to hell it doesn't flop. How many companies shit the bed this generation?

The end result is going to be less games that take far less risks and just play it as safe as possible.

Also take into account that, at least in the US, we're still in the shitter economically. People here can't afford the $600 Kutaragi Grill and will think very long and hard about anything over $300. I mean shit, we have something like almost 8 in 10 college students returning home to live with their parents. This situation is not getting better and it's only going to get worse because nothing is in place to fix the situation.

Super expensive games built for super expensive consoles to appeal to a rapidly shrinking population that can afford it? You'd have to be the dumbest fucking businessman on the planet to do that. In the end games are entertainment; they're toys.

Regardless of how much people on this board (myself included) loves games to the bitter end, the vast majority of people out there have a threshold of bullshit they're willing to put up with from toy makers.

The thing is, why would anyone want to buy another console if it isn't that much better than the one they already have. Sure games are starting to cost more and more, but I think that the industry may be able to adapt to it. We might find a lot more engine-only developers who make it that games can be easier to make, while still not costing too much. Personally, I feel that I'm already starting to get tired of this generation. The games are agreeably getting better, but they are all starting to feel like I've already played them. A new console generation usually fixes this.

As for a hardware perspective, Sony and Microsoft only need to make the usual jump. Having a 10 yr lifespan does not mean that they have to make up for the extra time. By 2013, these companies could easily put out a console 6-8 times more powerful than the current generation while still keeping the console at $300 or less because the hardware won't need to be the top of the line.  By 2013 GPUs will be at least 10-14x more powerful but I think people would be satisfied with  a 6-8 times jump. 





NJ5 on 22 June 2011
Potable_Toe said:
The Witcher 2 cost $8,000,000 to make, so yes games can quite easily cost less whilst looking, playing and being shitting good :|


I wonder how much of this apparently low cost is due to the fact that it was made by a Polish studio. I'm not an expert on Poland but I have the impression that salaries and business costs are not so high there...



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mchaza on 22 June 2011

well the processors will range between 4-8 cores possibility of more cores. Giving power at an optimized speed of around 4-5GHz. The GPU will contain an own 1-2GB of GPU dedicated ram and will be around the same level as todays gpu's for price. The console will contain 4-8GB of ram.

But the focus on especially sony's console will be providing not major graphical improvements but more performance improvement to allow more stuff to occur and at higher frame rates.

MS will have an small box but they will go cloud base gaming.



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mundus6 on 22 June 2011

Err? Todays computers are already 400% more powerful than PS3 and the max vote is 100%. The next gen will not be as powerful as todays PC hardware or the console will be sold at $700 with a huge loss a la PS3. But we should expect 3 times as powerful and not 5 times like PCs are.

Remember these consoles is supposed to last for a while, so anything less than that and i wouldn't bother tbh, considering Xbox 360 and PS3 can already handle most PC games in sub HD.

Also todays PCs while they are very powerful they are limited by the engines which are designed for current gen consoles. So even if say PS4 is only twice as powerful as PS3, we should see graphical improvements across the board a few years from now, even for Wii U.



mundus6 on 22 June 2011
Jdevil3 said:
HappySqurriel said:
Jdevil3 said:
Then != Than

I had to vote for 100% more powerful because that's the highes option in the poll. Had it been me who made this poll, 500% would be the lowest option considering that only means 5x. 1200% would be the highest.

My midrange PC is AT LEAST 5x more powerful than my PS3...




I've said this before and I'll say it again.
What did the PC versions of PS1 games look like 1 or 2 years before the PS2 was released? They were the same as the PS1 version but at a higher resolution, better textures, less aliasing, more effects, higher framerate, etc. Did PS2 games look like the PC version of PS1 games (higher res, etc?)? No, they went for a generational leap in graphics instead of just having the same graphics at a higher res, etc.

What did the PC versions of PS2 games look like 1 or 2 years before the Xbox 360 was released? Again, they were the same as the PS2 version but at a higher resolution, better textures, less aliasing, more effects, higher framerate, etc. Did Xbox 360 games look like the PC version of PS2 games? No, again, they went for a generational leap in graphics instead of having the same graphics at a higher res, etc... even the highest end PCs of 1 or 2 years before the Xbox 360 was released would never be able to run stuff like Gears of War 3.


What do the PC versions of PS3 games look like today? They are the same but at a higher resolution, better textures, less aliasing, more effects, 16xAF, sometimes tessellation, sometimes depth of field, higher framerate, etc. Now, if history repeats itself, instead of just just having the same graphics at a higher res (1080p), better textures, etc, they'll go for a generational leap in graphics once more and we'll have stuff like the Samaritan Tech Demo or better.


If they don't do that and they're just the same but with all those things mentioned (1080p, 60FPS, tessellation, dynamic lightning, etc) what will third parties do? They'll try to maximize their profits by releasing their games on current gen consoles with the graphics we know today (1280x720, 30FPS, etc) AND on PS4 and the next Xbox with better graphics(1080p, 60FPS, etc) just like what happens today with games on both PC and Xbox 360/PS3.
By doing that, gamers will just keep buying their games on current gen consoles, they'll see no need for a next gen console just as they don't see the need to get a PC when they see the difference... a difference few seem to notice.

What PC games were you playing?

Quake III, Unreal Tournament, Theif, System Shock II, and Half-Life were released in 1998 and were fairly close to what was released for the Dreamcast in 1999 and most early PS2 games.


Like I said, the PC version of PS1 games... I played Tomb Raider 1, 2, 3: The adventures of Lara Croft, 3: The Lost Artifact, 4: The Last Revelation. I also played Megaman Legends 1 on PC and Metal Gear Solid 1. The PS2 had stuff like MGS3 which had way better graphics than MGS1 on PC... none of those PC games came close to stuff like God of War II, Silent Hill 3/4 and Final Fantasy XII on PS2.


... YEAH, lets compare PC games that are from <99 with PS2 games that are from >04. What about Half Life 2, Farcry or Doom 3? They still look better today on the highest settings, than most games today for consoles. You are delusional, PC has always been way ahead of consoles, always. However as Wii proved, raw power is far from everything and while PC is and probably always will be the "ultimate console". Its biggest flaw is that the gamers pirate the games. So you can never make more money from a PC game than a console game, unless you are a online game and those are pretty big now on consoles to, Cod anyone?

Also 500% more powerful = 6 times as powerful not 5 times. Thats why 100% more powerful is twice as powerful.



sergiodaly on 22 June 2011

did not read the whole thread... but IMO, next gen( if 1Q 2013 launch) consoles can easily be around 5 to 8 times more powerful and cost around 400$ /euro at launch... Sony for example, can put a ps3 CPU and other CELL CPU (new, more PPUs and a lot more SPUs) (as they can work together with a scale performance chip to manage the information path between the two CPU; example: in a game PS3 CELL deal with 20% of the workload and the NEW CELL with the rest) and by doing that BC is hw based with no SW to deal with the huge complexity of the PS3 architecture. GPUs are leaps and bounds ahead of what they use in the current gen and with lots of better performance per watt... the usage of 8 times more RAM and vRAM than the current gen will also give a huge overall performance boost... all of this can be achieved with the price and power i talked above and keeping the power usage under 200 watt for the launch model!

but hey... its only one idea of the endless possibilities... but i am quite sure sony and MS will do a good gob and their consoles will be much more powerful than 100% more than the current gen because this is a multi billion dollar business and power is key in this business...

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kergeten on 22 June 2011

Dear OP, the Wii is 100% more powerful than the gamecube, so 2x the power really doesn't mean as much as you'd think.