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9/11 was a conspiracy not a conspiracy theory

Forums - General Discussion - 9/11 was a conspiracy not a conspiracy theory

Do you believe the USA government was involved in 9/11?

Yes 181 40.58%
 
No 201 45.07%
 
Maybe 61 13.68%
 
Total:443
sethnintendo said:
MrBubbles said:

this poll should have a "seth be trollin'" option. because i cant truly believe that anyone would actually choose these  illogical, inconsistent, easily debunked positions as the start of their argument. even taking into account that, according to numerous studies, truthers tend to be of a lower intelligence than the rest of the population.


I could have presented tons of others positions that cause serious doubt about the official explanations.  A few others have already brought a few of them to light.  If you think my op is so shitty then explain to me about the pentagon.  Where are the engines, where are wings/tail, why is the hole not even big enough for the plane to fit in (if just the fuselage went in then where the hell are the engines and wings outside the building)?  Those engines would still be there and the actual debris that was on the ground (was like 1 little piece) the engine maker said it didn't belong to any of their engines.  Why is there a wooden stool on the first floor right by the "plane" entrance that has a book on it that isn't even burnt, why is there a wooden desk on the second floor with a computer that is in near perfect condition?  Wouldn't those things be burnt from the jet fuel?   Look at the poll if I was so illogical, inconsistent, easily debunked then why do almost half the people think there was USA involvement (right now it is 22 yes, 26 no, 6 maybe)? 

I'll go after your lower intelligence claim.  Do you think it is more intelligent to believe the government never lies to you?  That they never misinform you?  If you do then you are of lower intelligence.  Instead of being all high and mighty by insulting people's intelligence maybe you should start questioning things before taking everything as absolute truth.  

Explain the pentagon crash to me....


so you blindly believe that what happened was a lie and believe any abusrd claim regardless of how fucking retarded it is.  because you have already asked the question so there is no longer any need to continue to question.   the answer must be right, because you were a sheep and did as you were told and asked the question.  you took your red pill and went through the rabbit hole, so obviously everything on the other side must be reality even when it doesnt quite make sense.

and regarding the floor numbers i do love your inability to count to five. kinda supports my claim though.



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

"Its like sex, but with a winner!"

MrBubbles Review Threads: Bill Gates, Jak II, Kingdom Hearts II, The Strangers, Sly 2, Crackdown, Zohan, Quarantine, Klungo Sssavesss Teh World, MS@E3'08, WATCHMEN(movie), Shadow of the Colossus, The Saboteur

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MrBubbles said:
sethnintendo said:
MrBubbles said:

this poll should have a "seth be trollin'" option. because i cant truly believe that anyone would actually choose these  illogical, inconsistent, easily debunked positions as the start of their argument. even taking into account that, according to numerous studies, truthers tend to be of a lower intelligence than the rest of the population.


I could have presented tons of others positions that cause serious doubt about the official explanations.  A few others have already brought a few of them to light.  If you think my op is so shitty then explain to me about the pentagon.  Where are the engines, where are wings/tail, why is the hole not even big enough for the plane to fit in (if just the fuselage went in then where the hell are the engines and wings outside the building)?  Those engines would still be there and the actual debris that was on the ground (was like 1 little piece) the engine maker said it didn't belong to any of their engines.  Why is there a wooden stool on the first floor right by the "plane" entrance that has a book on it that isn't even burnt, why is there a wooden desk on the second floor with a computer that is in near perfect condition?  Wouldn't those things be burnt from the jet fuel?   Look at the poll if I was so illogical, inconsistent, easily debunked then why do almost half the people think there was USA involvement (right now it is 22 yes, 26 no, 6 maybe)? 

I'll go after your lower intelligence claim.  Do you think it is more intelligent to believe the government never lies to you?  That they never misinform you?  If you do then you are of lower intelligence.  Instead of being all high and mighty by insulting people's intelligence maybe you should start questioning things before taking everything as absolute truth.  

Explain the pentagon crash to me....


so you blindly believe that what happened was a lie and believe any abusrd claim regardless of how fucking retarded it is.  because you have already asked the question so there is no longer any need to continue to question.   the answer must be right, because you were a sheep and did as you were told and asked the question.  you took your red pill and went through the rabbit hole, so obviously everything on the other side must be reality even when it doesnt quite make sense.

and regarding the floor numbers i do love your inability to count to five.

 


So according to that video the engines just burnt up and disappeared right on impact right?



"9/11 A CONSPIRACY?? BULLSHIT!!"


I would say that if i didn't understand the context that we are living.


Because in the world that we live, there is a thing called Illuminati.

And that.....it changes everything.



sethnintendo said:
HappySqurriel said:
Every time I see 911-truther's arguments I realize how bad the American education system is ...

First off, much like how cars are engineered with crashes in mind, when large towers are designed there is a considerable effort put towards managing how the building will fail. Being that you don't want a 100 story building to tip over and spread its destruction over many blocks, most of these buildings are designed to collapse inwards and fall ontop of itself.

Secondly, being that the weight of materials on tall towers is the primary stress on these buildings they're designed with a relatively small margin of error. When you (effectively) have the weight of dozens of floors falling 1 story because the structure beneath it has given way due to a fire damaging the structural integrity of the building, the force is so much greater than what the building can handle that every story will collapse as they experience this force.

Okay thanks for the unintelligent remark..  I thought Mr. Bubbles had that covered.  Anyways, I have heard those statements before.  I could correlate that was what happened except that apparently most of the jet fuel burnt up outside.  There is a flash before the plane even hits the building.  There are unknown huge things underneath the fuselage that are never on commercial flights (people at airport would have recognize them).  Witnesses said that the plane wasn't an American Airlines plane (didn't have markings).   How did the terrorist with little flight training pull of maneuvers that even trained pilots admit is impossible for inexperienced pilots to preform?

Can you explain all that too?  How about explaining the pentagon crash and why there was such little debris?  The hole wasn't big enough to fit the wing/engines/tail in yet there was barely if any wreckage outside.  Why did they release only one security camera footage of it when there were numerous more cameras.  Why can't you even see a plane in the footage?  Can you explain the Pentagon crash?

Ok, I'm going to ask you a simple question ... Which of the following is more likely

  1. A small group of well funded terrorists who have a long history of trying to attack the United States successfully executed a plan that took advantage of a government who failed to take the threat of terrorism seriously
  2. Tens of thousands of American citizens from all walks of life are involved in an elaborate conspiracy to kill their own citizens and begin a war in a country (Afghanistan) where there is practically nothing to gain? While it is nearly impossible to hide a conspiracy that involves more than a handful of members, this conspiracy has been kept underwraps even though there are tens of thousands of participants.


HappySqurriel said:
Every time I see 911-truther's arguments I realize how bad the American education system is ...

First off, much like how cars are engineered with crashes in mind, when large towers are designed there is a considerable effort put towards managing how the building will fail. Being that you don't want a 100 story building to tip over and spread its destruction over many blocks, most of these buildings are designed to collapse inwards and fall ontop of itself.

Secondly, being that the weight of materials on tall towers is the primary stress on these buildings they're designed with a relatively small margin of error. When you (effectively) have the weight of dozens of floors falling 1 story because the structure beneath it has given way due to a fire damaging the structural integrity of the building, the force is so much greater than what the building can handle that every story will collapse as they experience this force.

Fair enough, but explain to me what happened to the massive steel cores in the twin towers. Not to mention, if your pancake theory is correct, there would be a massive stack of floors at ground zero, but instead everything was shreded to dust and small steel shards. Also, the contents in the building would have, for the most part, been trapped inside the building when it "fell," yet dust, paper, and debris was all over lower Manhattan.Where was this huge mass on top that was pushing its way down through the middle of the towers (which is the path of GREATEST resistance?) It was non existant. The towers essentially tore themselves apart.

I will repeat this again... A Steel reinforced concrete building CANNOT, I repeat, CANNOT implode at the rate of free fall, without explosive devices of some kind being planted. The towers came down in 10 seconds roughly, meaning the buildings came down at a rate of TEN floors per SECOND. Imagine your house. Then stack 4 more of those on top. Then add thick steel reinforcement, including a massive steel core holding them up. You bilnk, and it is all gone, pulverized.. In ONE SECOND. Do you really see such a scenario occuring without explosives?

I am just completely baffeld that here in 2011, where we are supposed to be semi-evolved and intelligent human beings, and yet people can look at that footage of the freefall implosion, explosive squibs running down the building, pyroclastic clouds, all that - and believe that is simply gravity bringing it down. Just shows how frighteningly brainwashing the mainstream media can be..



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What can I say? People will invest in their government no matter how bad things can get. It is the same way with company loyalty or product loyalty. Even when the company or product lacks quality, there will be people that stand to defend their choice no matter the cost.

There is, in my mind, no doubt that 9/11 was an inside job. I remember when thee Anthrax thing happened saying that it was thee act of cowardice white people because Arabs (and most other cultures; Africans, Asians and even South Americans) will die in battle. The plane attacks made sense and lined up with what terrorist may do but thee Anthrax scare made no sense. I was bashed to high hell and banned from a website over it. Turned out it was US military grade Anthrax the whole time, sent out by US scientists, all of whom have died or disappeared since this news was discovered.

America is shady, point blank. Trust nobody.



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HappySqurriel said:
sethnintendo said:
HappySqurriel said:
Every time I see 911-truther's arguments I realize how bad the American education system is ...

First off, much like how cars are engineered with crashes in mind, when large towers are designed there is a considerable effort put towards managing how the building will fail. Being that you don't want a 100 story building to tip over and spread its destruction over many blocks, most of these buildings are designed to collapse inwards and fall ontop of itself.

Secondly, being that the weight of materials on tall towers is the primary stress on these buildings they're designed with a relatively small margin of error. When you (effectively) have the weight of dozens of floors falling 1 story because the structure beneath it has given way due to a fire damaging the structural integrity of the building, the force is so much greater than what the building can handle that every story will collapse as they experience this force.

Okay thanks for the unintelligent remark..  I thought Mr. Bubbles had that covered.  Anyways, I have heard those statements before.  I could correlate that was what happened except that apparently most of the jet fuel burnt up outside.  There is a flash before the plane even hits the building.  There are unknown huge things underneath the fuselage that are never on commercial flights (people at airport would have recognize them).  Witnesses said that the plane wasn't an American Airlines plane (didn't have markings).   How did the terrorist with little flight training pull of maneuvers that even trained pilots admit is impossible for inexperienced pilots to preform?

Can you explain all that too?  How about explaining the pentagon crash and why there was such little debris?  The hole wasn't big enough to fit the wing/engines/tail in yet there was barely if any wreckage outside.  Why did they release only one security camera footage of it when there were numerous more cameras.  Why can't you even see a plane in the footage?  Can you explain the Pentagon crash?

Ok, I'm going to ask you a simple question ... Which of the following is more likely

  1. A small group of well funded terrorists who have a long history of trying to attack the United States successfully executed a plan that took advantage of a government who failed to take the threat of terrorism seriously
  2. Tens of thousands of American citizens from all walks of life are involved in an elaborate conspiracy to kill their own citizens and begin a war in a country (Afghanistan) where there is practically nothing to gain? While it is nearly impossible to hide a conspiracy that involves more than a handful of members, this conspiracy has been kept underwraps even though there are tens of thousands of participants.

You don't need ten of thousands to be in on it.  Lets take the Manhattan Project as example.  Most people working on that didn't even have an idea that they were developing a nuclear weapon or lets take the production of the first tanks in WW1 (many people had no clue what they were helping to build).  You can leave a lot of people in the dark by just having them work on one aspect of the entire project.  Also, there were war games going on before and  during 9/11 (just like during Lodon bombings they were doing training for the exact same thing that happened).  It is easier to pull off during war games because then confusion starts happening if it is really happening or not.

Anyways, I am not 100% sure of involvement but it seems too likely.  There are just too many fishy things that went on during 9/11 that I can't just put a blind eye to.   Osama never even admitted to the attacks yet we blamed him right away.  You would think if a terrorist just pulled one of the biggest events in history that he would take credit for it?  



hudsoniscool said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLlMXkWW_LM
If you dont believe that there was an explosion watch this video. At 6 minutes and 50 seconds it switches to a video that is by TWC. Just seconds before you hear the planes hit there is a clear thump from an underground explosion

Also jet fuel's maximum burning temperature is 1800 degrees F while steel melts at 2500 degrees, so how did building 7 a steel building collapse (like demolition charges) from a fire when its impossible for it to reach sufficient temperatures to melt steel. Explosives such as c4 can reach 3000 degrees. Fire engineering magazine had said before 9/11 that "no steel building has ever been destroyed by fire."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDCSR3HfhVk&feature=related
This video will show you everything you need to. Watch this then tell me 9/11 wasnt a conspiracy.

this video shows george bush clearly lie about seeing the planes hit the tower.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm73wOuPL60&feature=relate

A building doesn't collapse because it's steel actually melts. It collapses because the steel structure is weakend, so gravity can take over and collapse it.

Even a 20 procent reduction in strength would do the trick with a building like that. A big physical impact and a resulting fuel fire can do that with ease.



In the wilderness we go alone with our new knowledge and strength.

sethnintendo said:
MrBubbles said:
sethnintendo said:
MrBubbles said:

this poll should have a "seth be trollin'" option. because i cant truly believe that anyone would actually choose these  illogical, inconsistent, easily debunked positions as the start of their argument. even taking into account that, according to numerous studies, truthers tend to be of a lower intelligence than the rest of the population.


I could have presented tons of others positions that cause serious doubt about the official explanations.  A few others have already brought a few of them to light.  If you think my op is so shitty then explain to me about the pentagon.  Where are the engines, where are wings/tail, why is the hole not even big enough for the plane to fit in (if just the fuselage went in then where the hell are the engines and wings outside the building)?  Those engines would still be there and the actual debris that was on the ground (was like 1 little piece) the engine maker said it didn't belong to any of their engines.  Why is there a wooden stool on the first floor right by the "plane" entrance that has a book on it that isn't even burnt, why is there a wooden desk on the second floor with a computer that is in near perfect condition?  Wouldn't those things be burnt from the jet fuel?   Look at the poll if I was so illogical, inconsistent, easily debunked then why do almost half the people think there was USA involvement (right now it is 22 yes, 26 no, 6 maybe)? 

I'll go after your lower intelligence claim.  Do you think it is more intelligent to believe the government never lies to you?  That they never misinform you?  If you do then you are of lower intelligence.  Instead of being all high and mighty by insulting people's intelligence maybe you should start questioning things before taking everything as absolute truth.  

Explain the pentagon crash to me....


so you blindly believe that what happened was a lie and believe any abusrd claim regardless of how fucking retarded it is.  because you have already asked the question so there is no longer any need to continue to question.   the answer must be right, because you were a sheep and did as you were told and asked the question.  you took your red pill and went through the rabbit hole, so obviously everything on the other side must be reality even when it doesnt quite make sense.

and regarding the floor numbers i do love your inability to count to five.

 


So according to that video the engines just burnt up and disappeared right on impact right?



the US military can do a lot of crazy things...but buildings healing themselves and expeling burnt, crushed, shredded, pieces that are left over of a foriegn invasive material is probably a little beyond them still.



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

"Its like sex, but with a winner!"

MrBubbles Review Threads: Bill Gates, Jak II, Kingdom Hearts II, The Strangers, Sly 2, Crackdown, Zohan, Quarantine, Klungo Sssavesss Teh World, MS@E3'08, WATCHMEN(movie), Shadow of the Colossus, The Saboteur

Metallicube said:
HappySqurriel said:
Every time I see 911-truther's arguments I realize how bad the American education system is ...

First off, much like how cars are engineered with crashes in mind, when large towers are designed there is a considerable effort put towards managing how the building will fail. Being that you don't want a 100 story building to tip over and spread its destruction over many blocks, most of these buildings are designed to collapse inwards and fall ontop of itself.

Secondly, being that the weight of materials on tall towers is the primary stress on these buildings they're designed with a relatively small margin of error. When you (effectively) have the weight of dozens of floors falling 1 story because the structure beneath it has given way due to a fire damaging the structural integrity of the building, the force is so much greater than what the building can handle that every story will collapse as they experience this force.

Fair enough, but explain to me what happened to the massive steel cores in the twin towers. Not to mention, if your pancake theory is correct, there would be a massive stack of floors at ground zero, but instead everything was shreded to dust and small steel shards. Also, the contents in the building would have, for the most part, been trapped inside the building when it "fell," yet dust, paper, and debris was all over lower Manhattan.Where was this huge mass on top that was pushing its way down through the middle of the towers (which is the path of GREATEST resistance?) It was non existance. The towers essentially tore themselves apart.

I will repeat this again... A Steel reinforced concrete building CANNOT, I repeat, CANNOT implode at the rate of free fall, without explosive devices of some kind being planted. The towers came down in 10 seconds roughly, meaning the buildings came down at a rate of TEN floors per SECOND. Imagine your house. Then stack 4 more of those on top. Then add thick steel reinforcement, including a massive steel core holding them up. You bilnk, and it is all gone, pulverized.. In ONE SECOND. Do you really see such a scenario occuring without explosives?

I am just completely baffeld that here in 2011, where we are supposed to be semi-evolved and intelligent human beings, and yet people can look at that footage of the freefall implosion, explosive squids running down the building, pyroclastic clouds, all that - and believe that is simply gravity bringing it down. Just shows how frighteningly brainwashing the mainstream media can be..


I think you greatly over-estimate the strength of this building while underestimating the forces involved ...

When the falling building hits the next floor the force on that floor will (probably) be greater than 10 times the force the building was designed to support. Much like stomping on a pop can, while the structure is strong when it is forced to support an objects weight, the structure cannot adequately stand up to the force of an object in free fall.

On top of this, as the building falls the air that was inside the building will forced out at a rapid rate (much like an accordion pump) and anything without substantial mass will be thrown free of the building.

Finally, while the tower represents a massive structure, the volume it takes up is mostly air; and when every floor collapses (including the basement and parking structure) the pile of debris would not be that large.